The Official England Thread- The Team We All Support [Vol 3]

[aeropilot]

Nardies said:

Muzzer79 said:

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

And to those wanting a replacement to Southgate, who do you suggest, that is available and would want the job?

A valid point that few answer. Southgate has the recipe, he just can't seem to get the cake to rise. For all his previous work on positivity and getting the players in the right frame of mind (especially 2018 and 2021 tournaments) they seem to have fallen back into a negative mindset. They play again with fear.

But who could come in? Graham Potter? Eddie Howe? Would we really fare better?

Talk of Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp is just fantasy - they're not interested in an international job like this.

Assuming GS does go, I can see them going for Eddie Howe.

Nope, it'll be Potter.
FA will want the right person to wear the blazer and tie and do all the stuff other than coaching the England team, that they see as more important.

In the words of The Who, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".......

[cerb4.5lee]

Guvernator said:

The post above is spot on. It's a safe approach that isn't likely to get you fired but it won't win you anything either but then this seems to be a bit of a theme with England managers for some reason.

I have to say we've stunk out the tournament so far. Probably the worse team to watch which is a sad indictment when you consider some of the other teams that are taking part and the array of talent we have.

The quicker we get knocked out and come home, the better tbh as it's a bit embarrassing at the moment.

This has always irritated me about England as well, and we just play lousy football in comparison to pretty much any other country.

The game last night was completely dire to watch, but at least we all did have a bit of a laugh about it on here though.

[Challo]

HarryW said:

I don’t think Kane is as sharp or has the legs for 90 mins + at this level nowadays. I’d put him on the bench and bring him on later in the second half where he’d be more effective and still there for the penalty shoot outs.
Never been a fan of strikers being captain either, ergo I’d given Rice the captains arm band, always better that captain is midfield where he has a better view of the game.

Kane was and still is a top goal scorer. I have no issue with him playing as he will take his chances, but they need to play a system to help him.

If it's not working then take him off and play someone else.

The issue is Southgate won't play a system that helps him, or sub him when its not working or he is knackered

[48k]

TEKNOPUG said:

Blackpuddin said:

fourstardan said:

How the bookies put us still at odds on favourite is beyond me.

That is remarkable for sure.

It's a "book". The number of bets determine the odds. The bookies just create the opening odds, then the market determines how they change. The most bets placed in England, by English people, are on England to win........what a shock.

I expect if you looked at the odds from foreign betting firms they'd have different market favourites.

I thought that pre tournament so had a look, but it turned out not to be true. The likes of BetClic and FDJ in France, and Tipico and Bwin in Germany all had England as favourites.

Edit: Just had another look and they still have England as favourites.

Edited by 48k on Wednesday 26th June 12:41

[SWoll]

GTO-3R said:

Kane is only playing as he's captain and Southgate won't drop him because of that.

We have to play Gordon, Palmer and Mainoo next game as we looked a much better team when all 3 were on. Bellingham is either knackered or pissed off with how Southgate wants to play and isn't having it, I can't work out which one.

Not convinced Mainoo adds much other than youthful exuberance personally, not that it's a bad thing in itself.

I still believe Trent has something to offer in a team that play on the front foot and look to be positive. Combine him with Palmer and Gordon on the wings and Watkins up the middle and we might actually see some football worth watching. Saka, Foden, Kane and Bellingham all look they could do with a rest.

[soupdragon1]

Jasey_ said:

soupdragon1 said:

That's why England are favourites.

They've got to get past some 3rd in the group no hopers first

I'm not English, so I couldn't care less. Just discussing how the betting market works, I'm not suggesting for one minute people should back England.

[soupdragon1]

TEKNOPUG said:

soupdragon1 said:

TEKNOPUG said:

Blackpuddin said:

fourstardan said:

How the bookies put us still at odds on favourite is beyond me.

That is remarkable for sure.

It's a "book". The number of bets determine the odds. The bookies just create the opening odds, then the market determines how they change. The most bets placed in England, by English people, are on England to win........what a shock.

I expect if you looked at the odds from foreign betting firms they'd have different market favourites.

The bookies will lay their bets in those markets too, otherwise England would likely be odds on to win, rather than 4/1

The reason they are favourites is more simple. There are 5 teams who are considered strong contenders. England won't meet any of them unless they get to the final. So they aren't up against 4 strong teams, they are actually only up against 1. Of those 4 other strong teams, they'll all knock each other out before England get to play them. That's why England are favourites.

You're suggesting that people are placing bets based on logic and analytical reasoning. They aren't. It's people who only places bets on the Grand National or whether it will be a white Xmas, betting on who they want to win, not who they think will win. The odds are meaningless.

You've just taken the opposite interpretation of what I just said.

Betting markets are worldwide, even for UK only bookies. You'll get regional variations but not to the extent you described. Otherwise you get huge opportunities to beat the bookies via price arbitrage. England are favourites due to (a) having a good squad and (b) people across the globe betting as such and (c) having an easier path to the final. It's that simple.

[philv]

There is enough in that squad that we saw last night to be hopeful.

We always seem to stumble on something that works or resist putting on the new exciting talent before theres no other choice.
Remember the clamour for Owen to start in the world cup, that didn't happen until the 3rd game?

Problem is southgate is even slower to act.

Did he really think that swapping Trent for another player was going to fix things, when they played the same way?

[Supersam83]

type-r said:

5pm kick off next game isn't going to help either if this heat persists.

Well the forecast for Sunday is 65% chance of rain and 22C max.

Should favour England and hopefully they will run more...

[Blackpuddin]

Draw keeps England away from Spain, Germany, Portugal and France not just through the upcoming knockout stage but also all the way to the final, should we somehow stumble our way into that. It's the hope that kills you etc.

[The Hypno-Toad]

Blackpuddin said:

Draw keeps England away from Spain, Germany, Portugal and France not just through the upcoming knockout stage but also all the way to the final, should we somehow stumble our way into that. It's the hope that kills you etc.

We’ll probably have to beat the Dutch first and that won't be easy for this team.

Maybe that’s why the Dutch lost against Austria, reckon they can take us, easy route to the final…. Just saying.

[Killer2005]

Muzzer79 said:

Talk of Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp is just fantasy - they're not interested in an international job like this.

On the contrary, Mourinho very much does want an international job, just not the England one.

[Ankh87]

Please don't use the heat as an excuse. The players have played in hotter and more humid conditions.

Issue with last nights game were a lack of urgency and direct passes. Allowed the opposition to fall back into shape making it near impossible to actually do anything. When we did press and had some sort of urgency, we created chances.

[The Hypno-Toad]

It will be Howe or Potter.

Either/or I reckon the deal is already done.

[pavarotti1980]

Nardies said:

Assuming GS does go, I can see them going for Eddie Howe.

Not sure he would be suited to it to be honest. It seems he likes a long time for players to get used to his way of playing and would 10 day international breaks be long enough to instil this?

Surely the way to go is for the whole England set up to be playing in a certain way (much like Spain did) across all the age groups. Much easier to be play one way all through your development and makes the step up between the groups easier

[asfault]

A Scot here. A rare one who supports England alongside Scotland.
Why though do England always seem to play a team that has at least one person on their wrong foot? Surely you pick the best team of 11 players for each position and not best 11 overall and then end up thinking crud ive got 3 right backs and no left backs your on the left tonight righty specialist....

[ChocolateFrog]

Challo said:

Kane was and still is a top goal scorer. I have no issue with him playing as he will take his chances, but they need to play a system to help him.

If it's not working then take him off and play someone else.

The issue is Southgate won't play a system that helps him, or sub him when its not working or he is knackered

I agree.

If you dropped Kane and we still didn't get any goals you'd look mighty silly.

There's 2 or 3 players in the team that you need to bend the team around, the main one being Kane.

But Southgate can't or won't do it. He wants Kane to be Mbappe when he's a lot more Lewandowski.

I don't think there's anyone else in the Euros I'd want a good chance to drop to in the box than Kane. But no let's make him run 40 yards first.

[toon10]

asfault said:

A Scot here. A rare one who supports England alongside Scotland.
Why though do England always seem to play a team that has at least one person on their wrong foot? Surely you pick the best team of 11 players for each position and not best 11 overall and then end up thinking crud ive got 3 right backs and no left backs your on the left tonight righty specialist....

You don't need to convince me. You're right, you don't play your best 11 players, you play the best 11 you can that fit a system, that are natural in their positions and that play well together. As an example, Foden is a better player than Gordon, but I'd leave Foden on the bench and play Gordon. Foden isn't a left winger. I'd start with Bellingham and then bring him off after an hour to keep him fresh and then play Foden in a more natural position for half an hour. What an impact sub he could be.

[Gin and Ultrasonic]

soupdragon1 said:

TEKNOPUG said:

soupdragon1 said:

TEKNOPUG said:

Blackpuddin said:

fourstardan said:

How the bookies put us still at odds on favourite is beyond me.

That is remarkable for sure.

It's a "book". The number of bets determine the odds. The bookies just create the opening odds, then the market determines how they change. The most bets placed in England, by English people, are on England to win........what a shock.

I expect if you looked at the odds from foreign betting firms they'd have different market favourites.

The bookies will lay their bets in those markets too, otherwise England would likely be odds on to win, rather than 4/1

The reason they are favourites is more simple. There are 5 teams who are considered strong contenders. England won't meet any of them unless they get to the final. So they aren't up against 4 strong teams, they are actually only up against 1. Of those 4 other strong teams, they'll all knock each other out before England get to play them. That's why England are favourites.

You're suggesting that people are placing bets based on logic and analytical reasoning. They aren't. It's people who only places bets on the Grand National or whether it will be a white Xmas, betting on who they want to win, not who they think will win. The odds are meaningless.

You've just taken the opposite interpretation of what I just said.

Betting markets are worldwide, even for UK only bookies. You'll get regional variations but not to the extent you described. Otherwise you get huge opportunities to beat the bookies via price arbitrage. England are favourites due to (a) having a good squad and (b) people across the globe betting as such and (c) having an easier path to the final. It's that simple.

England aren't odds on favourites at all - they are miles from being odds on??

[ChocolateFrog]

The Hypno-Toad said:

Blackpuddin said:

Draw keeps England away from Spain, Germany, Portugal and France not just through the upcoming knockout stage but also all the way to the final, should we somehow stumble our way into that. It's the hope that kills you etc.

We’ll probably have to beat the Dutch first and that won't be easy for this team.

Maybe that’s why the Dutch lost against Austria, reckon they can take us, easy route to the final…. Just saying.

60 odd percent chance of us getting the Dutch in the next round.

As much as they're probably the strongest opposition we could face conversely they might be the ones we're most likely to beat.