The Official England Thread- The Team We All Support [Vol 3]
Discussion
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
RowntreesCabana said:
Are you seriously implying that Taylor, Hodgson, McClaren or Keegan didn't get any grief????
they got a s
t load of grief, but they also had some utterly abysmal results in the tournaments, and I think in all cases never made it out of the group stage.2000, England in with Portugal, Germany and Romania. We finished 3rd after conceding a 89th pen to Romania. Again, are you confident that Southgate would win that group this year?
Euro 2020, Croatia, Scotland and Czech......Euro 2024, Denmark, Serbia and Slovenia.....
It's almost as if it's easier to top the group if the teams in the group aren't very good......
I know Trips hasnt been at his best as he is on the right side for NUFC, and he doesn't have the height for a CB so can't fit into a system like Big Dan Burn does for us, where it allows the right full back to overlap while the other 3 sit into a back 3.
Club teams can have a handful of games where they look poor, and it's considered a lull. Usually when sides look a bit lopsided or lethargic, we usually see a change to the side, particularly if there's a strong bench. Yes the turgid performances have given fans the opportunity to moan however, I think the biggest frustration we are all experiencing is that there other players who have proven that they can perform at the highest level are sitting there watching the guaranteed 10 players on the pitch get 3 games to do the same thing rinse and repeat. If suddenly we explode in the knockout stage, suggesting we were sandbagging then maybe Southgate is the tactical master we all underestimated. My expectation is that it'll be the same side against the Dutch highlighting the same issues again.
Club teams can have a handful of games where they look poor, and it's considered a lull. Usually when sides look a bit lopsided or lethargic, we usually see a change to the side, particularly if there's a strong bench. Yes the turgid performances have given fans the opportunity to moan however, I think the biggest frustration we are all experiencing is that there other players who have proven that they can perform at the highest level are sitting there watching the guaranteed 10 players on the pitch get 3 games to do the same thing rinse and repeat. If suddenly we explode in the knockout stage, suggesting we were sandbagging then maybe Southgate is the tactical master we all underestimated. My expectation is that it'll be the same side against the Dutch highlighting the same issues again.
RowntreesCabana said:
Southgate has had some very, very fortunate draws to be honest. The World Cup in 2018 for example, beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden in 90 minutes, penalties to go through against Colombia, lost to Belgium and Croatia. That was enough to get to a Semi and is given as an example of what some see as success? I don't buy it.
I think the standards of the upper tier international sides have dropped massively over the last 10 years anyway, so they have a chance, but the squad is not particularly strong. Foden and Bellingham are probably a couple of years off being at their peak, whilst Kane is 3 years past his. There's not a core of peak players in the squad, so the next manager may actually win something at the next two tournaments.
It's odd isn't it? Look at the age of our starting XI and they're all either 25 or under, or 30+I think the standards of the upper tier international sides have dropped massively over the last 10 years anyway, so they have a chance, but the squad is not particularly strong. Foden and Bellingham are probably a couple of years off being at their peak, whilst Kane is 3 years past his. There's not a core of peak players in the squad, so the next manager may actually win something at the next two tournaments.
Pickford - 30
Walker - 34
Stones - 30
Guehi - 23
Tripper - 33
Rice - 25
Trent/Gallagher - 25/24
Bellingham - 20
Foden - 24
Saka - 22
Kane - 30
By the next tournament all 3 of our striking options will be 30+, and I can't think of anyone coming through? Even this time Toney has only played half a season and not scored a goal since February..
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
And to those wanting a replacement to Southgate, who do you suggest, that is available and would want the job?
A valid point that few answer. Southgate has the recipe, he just can't seem to get the cake to rise. For all his previous work on positivity and getting the players in the right frame of mind (especially 2018 and 2021 tournaments) they seem to have fallen back into a negative mindset. They play again with fear.But who could come in? Graham Potter? Eddie Howe? Would we really fare better?
Talk of Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp is just fantasy - they're not interested in an international job like this.
SWoll said:
By the next tournament all 3 of our striking options will be 30+, and I can't think of anyone coming through? Even this time Toney has only played half a season and not scored a goal since February..
Rashford has too much talent not to get it together consistently at some point.TEKNOPUG said:
Blackpuddin said:
fourstardan said:
How the bookies put us still at odds on favourite is beyond me.
That is remarkable for sure. I expect if you looked at the odds from foreign betting firms they'd have different market favourites.
The reason they are favourites is more simple. There are 5 teams who are considered strong contenders. England won't meet any of them unless they get to the final. So they aren't up against 4 strong teams, they are actually only up against 1. Of those 4 other strong teams, they'll all knock each other out before England get to play them. That's why England are favourites.
soupdragon1 said:
TEKNOPUG said:
Blackpuddin said:
fourstardan said:
How the bookies put us still at odds on favourite is beyond me.
That is remarkable for sure. I expect if you looked at the odds from foreign betting firms they'd have different market favourites.
The reason they are favourites is more simple. There are 5 teams who are considered strong contenders. England won't meet any of them unless they get to the final. So they aren't up against 4 strong teams, they are actually only up against 1. Of those 4 other strong teams, they'll all knock each other out before England get to play them. That's why England are favourites.
soupdragon1 said:
The bookies will lay their bets in those markets too, otherwise England would likely be odds on to win, rather than 4/1
The reason they are favourites is more simple. There are 5 teams who are considered strong contenders. England won't meet any of them unless they get to the final. So they aren't up against 4 strong teams, they are actually only up against 1. Of those 4 other strong teams, they'll all knock each other out before England get to play them. That's why England are favourites.
I would have thought that whoever gets to the final out of those 4 strong teams will be battle hardened and bl**dy good, where as if we do not so much. You can see England getting to the final is plausible with the draw we have (although for me we exit at quarter or semi final) but if we do I cannot see us winning it. Hope to be proved wrong.The reason they are favourites is more simple. There are 5 teams who are considered strong contenders. England won't meet any of them unless they get to the final. So they aren't up against 4 strong teams, they are actually only up against 1. Of those 4 other strong teams, they'll all knock each other out before England get to play them. That's why England are favourites.
Muzzer79 said:
SWoll said:
By the next tournament all 3 of our striking options will be 30+, and I can't think of anyone coming through? Even this time Toney has only played half a season and not scored a goal since February..
Rashford has too much talent not to get it together consistently at some point.Genuinely though, who else is there under 25? As an LFC fan I think Danns looks like he could be something special, but he's still only 18 so who knows?
SWoll said:
He doesn't even play CF for his club though and is wildly inconsistent? He'll also be pushing 29 by the next tournament so hardly a hot young talent for the future?
Genuinely though, who else is there under 25? As an LFC fan I think Danns looks like he could be something special, but he's still only 18 so who knows?
Like every tournament, by the time the next one rolls around, there'll be a new kid in town. No need in worrying about the next one, we've got to hope the ones at this one find their shooting boots first. Genuinely though, who else is there under 25? As an LFC fan I think Danns looks like he could be something special, but he's still only 18 so who knows?
Murph7355 said:
Turgid watch, but top of the table. And Mainoo, Palmer and Gordon all looked willing to turn on the taps.
Saka's been good. Left side aside, defence has been OK. Pickford has thankfully had little to do.
Looks like Netherlands or Slovakia next. I'd rather we had the Slovaks.
I watch little football, just the major tournaments. being mainly a rugby fan, so I realise my thoughts are not those of an aficionado, but I agree with your post. There are many calls on PH, and elsewhere I'm told, for Southgate to go, yet the first requirement is to get through the group stages, and, presumably, in the most advantageous slot, and the team, and Southgate, have done so. Isn't that worth praise?Saka's been good. Left side aside, defence has been OK. Pickford has thankfully had little to do.
Looks like Netherlands or Slovakia next. I'd rather we had the Slovaks.
It may have been turgid (most games are to me) but there are no bonus points for playing attractive, attacking football. In some ways, just the opposite it seems to me, although I know little.
I've been told that Southgate is our second most successful national football manager, although I assume specific criteria should be specified. If he is, why have a go at the poor bloke? It seems strange to me.
SWoll said:
It's odd isn't it? Look at the age of our starting XI and they're all either 25 or under, or 30+
Pickford - 30
Walker - 34
Stones - 30
Guehi - 23
Tripper - 33
Rice - 25
Trent/Gallagher - 25/24
Bellingham - 20
Foden - 24
Saka - 22
Kane - 30
By the next tournament all 3 of our striking options will be 30+, and I can't think of anyone coming through? Even this time Toney has only played half a season and not scored a goal since February..
The talk of 'senior players' in the team has never struck me as helpful. That sort of chat must negatively affect the mindset of the (sic) 'junior' players, not to mention encourage the 'seniors' to do the 'put your foot on the ball, look around majestically as befits your status and then pass the ball (and the responsibility) sideways or backwards to someone else' that has become the depressing hallmark of the England team. Players are too concerned about their completed passes stats and their transfer value to do anything risky for England.Pickford - 30
Walker - 34
Stones - 30
Guehi - 23
Tripper - 33
Rice - 25
Trent/Gallagher - 25/24
Bellingham - 20
Foden - 24
Saka - 22
Kane - 30
By the next tournament all 3 of our striking options will be 30+, and I can't think of anyone coming through? Even this time Toney has only played half a season and not scored a goal since February..
Muzzer79 said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
And to those wanting a replacement to Southgate, who do you suggest, that is available and would want the job?
A valid point that few answer. Southgate has the recipe, he just can't seem to get the cake to rise. For all his previous work on positivity and getting the players in the right frame of mind (especially 2018 and 2021 tournaments) they seem to have fallen back into a negative mindset. They play again with fear.But who could come in? Graham Potter? Eddie Howe? Would we really fare better?
Talk of Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp is just fantasy - they're not interested in an international job like this.
Derek Smith said:
I've been told that Southgate is our second most successful national football manager, although I assume specific criteria should be specified. If he is, why have a go at the poor bloke? It seems strange to me.
IMO we have progressed in spite of Southgate and not because of him. We have a team with a few world class players who have just about managed to get us out of the group stages against poor teams. If there was a competent manager then we would have won the group with relative ease. When all pundits and people on social media are saying exactly the same things that would improve the team and Southgate is the only one saying differently then it's not him that is right. He has a massive issue both tactics wise and motivationally. I've never seen an England team with players of this quality look like they didn't want to be there. He's beaten all energy out of them by using terrible tactics and the wrong players in the wrong positions.Kane is only playing as he's captain and Southgate won't drop him because of that.
We have to play Gordon, Palmer and Mainoo next game as we looked a much better team when all 3 were on. Bellingham is either knackered or pissed off with how Southgate wants to play and isn't having it, I can't work out which one.
We have to play Gordon, Palmer and Mainoo next game as we looked a much better team when all 3 were on. Bellingham is either knackered or pissed off with how Southgate wants to play and isn't having it, I can't work out which one.
I don’t think Kane is as sharp or has the legs for 90 mins + at this level nowadays. I’d put him on the bench and bring him on later in the second half where he’d be more effective and still there for the penalty shoot outs.
Never been a fan of strikers being captain either, ergo I’d given Rice the captains arm band, always better that captain is midfield where he has a better view of the game.
Never been a fan of strikers being captain either, ergo I’d given Rice the captains arm band, always better that captain is midfield where he has a better view of the game.
HarryW said:
I don’t think Kane is as sharp or has the legs for 90 mins + at this level nowadays. I’d put him on the bench and bring him on later in the second half where he’d be more effective and still there for the penalty shoot outs.
Never been a fan of strikers being captain either, ergo I’d given Rice the captains arm band, always better that captain is midfield where he has a better view of the game.
All sensible Never been a fan of strikers being captain either, ergo I’d given Rice the captains arm band, always better that captain is midfield where he has a better view of the game.
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