The Official England Thread- The Team We All Support [Vol 3]
Discussion
Foden,Stones,Walker playing under Pep.
Kane playing under Tuchel
Bellingham playing under Anchelotti
Then they arrive and are coached by Sidewaysgate.
Some of the comments are (for me,opinions eh?) a bit far fetched). I have no problem with Kane dropping deep,he’s done it all career brilliantly. The problem is that the system is so rigid that no one goes in to the space behind when he does and early doors when Bellingham has done it,we turn back and sideways anyway.
With a four at the back the lack of a left footed full back is cramping and slowing everything,and even on the right Walker has been given no license whatsoever to overlap,so again from Saka it goes sideways and back.
Rice is ruined under this manager,he had more attacking threat under Moyes,let alone under Arteta,and yet for all the criticism he’s come under he was directly involved in two of our three decent moves last night with a one two on the edge of the box.
Bellingham has had a massively long season for a lad of his age,his form has dropped no doubt due to mental and physical tiredness,he can be benched Sunday and have a massive influence as an impact sub Sunday if required,and that’s no criticism of him,he’s a massive massive talent. Saka can have a rest as well Sunday,we enough attacking threat to replace them….. but it’s unlikely any of the above will happen.
Yours
Bored Brainless from Essex after 38 games of Moyes and 3 of Southgate.
Kane playing under Tuchel
Bellingham playing under Anchelotti
Then they arrive and are coached by Sidewaysgate.
Some of the comments are (for me,opinions eh?) a bit far fetched). I have no problem with Kane dropping deep,he’s done it all career brilliantly. The problem is that the system is so rigid that no one goes in to the space behind when he does and early doors when Bellingham has done it,we turn back and sideways anyway.
With a four at the back the lack of a left footed full back is cramping and slowing everything,and even on the right Walker has been given no license whatsoever to overlap,so again from Saka it goes sideways and back.
Rice is ruined under this manager,he had more attacking threat under Moyes,let alone under Arteta,and yet for all the criticism he’s come under he was directly involved in two of our three decent moves last night with a one two on the edge of the box.
Bellingham has had a massively long season for a lad of his age,his form has dropped no doubt due to mental and physical tiredness,he can be benched Sunday and have a massive influence as an impact sub Sunday if required,and that’s no criticism of him,he’s a massive massive talent. Saka can have a rest as well Sunday,we enough attacking threat to replace them….. but it’s unlikely any of the above will happen.
Yours
Bored Brainless from Essex after 38 games of Moyes and 3 of Southgate.
sjc said:
Foden,Stones,Walker playing under Pep.
Kane playing under Tuchel
Bellingham playing under Anchelotti
Then they arrive and are coached by Sidewaysgate.
Some of the comments are (for me,opinions eh?) a bit far fetched). I have no problem with Kane dropping deep,he’s done it all career brilliantly. The problem is that the system is so rigid that no one goes in to the space behind when he does and early doors when Bellingham has done it,we turn back and sideways anyway.
With a four at the back the lack of a left footed full back is cramping and slowing everything,and even on the right Walker has been given no license whatsoever to overlap,so again from Saka it goes sideways and back.
Rice is ruined under this manager,he had more attacking threat under Moyes,let alone under Arteta,and yet for all the criticism he’s come under he was directly involved in two of our three decent moves last night with a one two on the edge of the box.
Bellingham has had a massively long season for a lad of his age,his form has dropped no doubt due to mental and physical tiredness,he can be benched Sunday and have a massive influence as an impact sub Sunday if required,and that’s no criticism of him,he’s a massive massive talent. Saka can have a rest as well Sunday,we enough attacking threat to replace them….. but it’s unlikely any of the above will happen.
Yours
Bored Brainless from Essex after 38 games of Moyes and 3 of Southgate.
Agree with all your points but nobody was saying Bellingham was looking tired and weary after a long season when he was modelling underpants for the Kardashians….Kane playing under Tuchel
Bellingham playing under Anchelotti
Then they arrive and are coached by Sidewaysgate.
Some of the comments are (for me,opinions eh?) a bit far fetched). I have no problem with Kane dropping deep,he’s done it all career brilliantly. The problem is that the system is so rigid that no one goes in to the space behind when he does and early doors when Bellingham has done it,we turn back and sideways anyway.
With a four at the back the lack of a left footed full back is cramping and slowing everything,and even on the right Walker has been given no license whatsoever to overlap,so again from Saka it goes sideways and back.
Rice is ruined under this manager,he had more attacking threat under Moyes,let alone under Arteta,and yet for all the criticism he’s come under he was directly involved in two of our three decent moves last night with a one two on the edge of the box.
Bellingham has had a massively long season for a lad of his age,his form has dropped no doubt due to mental and physical tiredness,he can be benched Sunday and have a massive influence as an impact sub Sunday if required,and that’s no criticism of him,he’s a massive massive talent. Saka can have a rest as well Sunday,we enough attacking threat to replace them….. but it’s unlikely any of the above will happen.
Yours
Bored Brainless from Essex after 38 games of Moyes and 3 of Southgate.
Blackpuddin said:
Anyone see Pickford giving his defence the 'calm it lads, slow it down' signals last night? The exact opposite of what's actually needed.
Tripper was doing the same to those further up the pitch. The mentality of this team is garbage in the most part with the only players looking to be unaffected being the ones who are in their first tournament under Southgate and Kane's leadership, they've obviously not had time to beat the positivity out of them yet and inflict their victim narrative.All this negativity for Southgate 
I can remember Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor, Kevin Keegan, Steve Mclaren, Roy Hodgson. All of whom had some veritable disasters managing the England Team. And yet Southgate, plays it canny, racks up Group WINS ( not second places) and sees us into semi's or finals.
WTAF do you want?
Exciting football gets you beat - ask Keegan.
I actually think that we will play a lot better now that we are in the knock out stages, we almost always do.
And to those wanting a replacement to Southgate, who do you suggest, that is available and would want the job?
The FA like him, because his tournament record is second to none (of the previous England Managers), and he never causes any embarrassment to them.
I can remember Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor, Kevin Keegan, Steve Mclaren, Roy Hodgson. All of whom had some veritable disasters managing the England Team. And yet Southgate, plays it canny, racks up Group WINS ( not second places) and sees us into semi's or finals.
WTAF do you want?
Exciting football gets you beat - ask Keegan.
I actually think that we will play a lot better now that we are in the knock out stages, we almost always do.
And to those wanting a replacement to Southgate, who do you suggest, that is available and would want the job?
The FA like him, because his tournament record is second to none (of the previous England Managers), and he never causes any embarrassment to them.
extraT said:
fourstardan said:
Im seeing something deeper in this poor set of results.
Bellingham looks to be part of one of these deeper issues, it looks like he's come into this tournament after all the big move club wise, but reality is he's been a missing man and can't play in this system so has thrown his toys out the pram.
Kane is also now becoming a detriment to England. He again has had a big move going well and can't play around these other players in this system.
These players have scored (the only goals), but come on, they have hardly been demonstrating world class effort/build up to score said goals have they?
He also lacks any decent wing movements, we havn't had inverted full back moves for the complete tournament right or left.
I do think Southgate has dug his own grave playing this same line up in attack for too long last night, Cole palmer changed situations yesterday, I'm not saying he is the answer but he seemed to do more than Saka managed for the previous amount of time.
How the bookies put us still at odds on favourite is beyond me.
Good points, but Bellingham and Kane have been super for their clubs. Either the system is wrong or they are. I’d say, given the lacklustre performances, it’s the system.Bellingham looks to be part of one of these deeper issues, it looks like he's come into this tournament after all the big move club wise, but reality is he's been a missing man and can't play in this system so has thrown his toys out the pram.
Kane is also now becoming a detriment to England. He again has had a big move going well and can't play around these other players in this system.
These players have scored (the only goals), but come on, they have hardly been demonstrating world class effort/build up to score said goals have they?
He also lacks any decent wing movements, we havn't had inverted full back moves for the complete tournament right or left.
I do think Southgate has dug his own grave playing this same line up in attack for too long last night, Cole palmer changed situations yesterday, I'm not saying he is the answer but he seemed to do more than Saka managed for the previous amount of time.
How the bookies put us still at odds on favourite is beyond me.
On paper, we have an amazing attaching midfield and forwards, but are set up defensively. Score one then park the bus. The problem is, last night where at one point we had +70% possession, the team didn’t k ow what to do, there was no movement off the ball because they were set up defensively.
Kane and Bellingham play for clubs famous for attacking football. Let them play how they need? Don’t let Kane drop back into midfield.
What's the point in having a 26 man squad if you are only going to play 11 of them? Why drop Grealish, Rashford, Maddison, Maguire etc if you aren't actually going to play any of their replacements? The entire England squad, man for man, are better than every of team and player in the group. He should be able to fashion a winning team out of any combination of them. It's not like he's got 8 Prem players and the rest of the squad are from the lower leagues.
Henderson
Dunk
Gomez
Konsa
Mainoo
Wharton
Bowen
Eze
Watkins
Toney
Gordon
Those 11 should be able to beat Slovenia!
After the first game, it was clear that there were issues, yet no change in personnel, formation or tactics. Second game even worse, still no change. First 45mins of game 3, still dreadful. Literally waits until the the 70th minute to make any sort of attacking change. Gives Gordon 5mins......
I don't know what is worse, that he's incapable of recognising that there are problems and how to fix them or whether he genuinely thinks everything is fine and it's going according to his plan?
And I have no doubt that they are playing as per his instructions. You have all the time on the training ground, all the analytical & tactical work off it, all the pre game and half time team talks - and 8 previous years of doing this - if you wanted them to play a high line with quick passing for example, you've damn well had enough time to drill that into the players, that's what you want and anything else is unacceptable. Fergie, Klopp, Pep, Jose etc wouldn't allow a group of players to ignore their instructions or fail to do what they were told for 3 games in a row! They'd be called out in training, players would be dropped, they'd be mass substitutions, hair-dryer treatment at half time. Hell, Big Ange would resign on the spot if one of his teams showed such little attacking intent 3 games in a row!
But evidently not Southgate. He either wants them to play this way or he lacks the mental fibre to impose his will on the players. GIven he managed to get relegated and fired in his only previous club role and loses to every decent team he faces in a tournament, it's probably the latter.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
All this negativity for Southgate
I can remember Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor, Kevin Keegan, Steve Mclaren, Roy Hodgson. All of whom had some veritable disasters managing the England Team. And yet Southgate, plays it canny, racks up Group WINS ( not second places) and sees us into semi's or finals.
WTAF do you want?
Exciting football gets you beat - ask Keegan.
I actually think that we will play a lot better now that we are in the knock out stages, we almost always do.
And to those wanting a replacement to Southgate, who do you suggest, that is available and would want the job?
The FA like him, because his tournament record is second to none (of the previous England Managers), and he never causes any embarrassment to them.
2 wins in the last 8 matchesI can remember Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor, Kevin Keegan, Steve Mclaren, Roy Hodgson. All of whom had some veritable disasters managing the England Team. And yet Southgate, plays it canny, racks up Group WINS ( not second places) and sees us into semi's or finals.
WTAF do you want?
Exciting football gets you beat - ask Keegan.
I actually think that we will play a lot better now that we are in the knock out stages, we almost always do.
And to those wanting a replacement to Southgate, who do you suggest, that is available and would want the job?
The FA like him, because his tournament record is second to none (of the previous England Managers), and he never causes any embarrassment to them.
Performance levels are well below whats expected for this group of players
Constantly making errors despite the whole world and their wives pointing them out before he makes them, again
He won a group with one win, the easiest group in the tournament, relying on Denmark not scoring against a poor Serbian side.
No doubt previous tournaments have gone well for him, but we are not judging him on past tournaments, we are judging him on his decisions here and now. And its quite clear there needs to be a huge step change in those decisions and the performance if we are to go deep into this tournament with what is probably the strongest squad of England players in 20 or 30 years.
Exciting football can also win tournaments, just look at past winners. We need to get past this basic binary thought that its either the Southgate way or no way. This group of players can play much much better, and will need to, to win this tournament.
Edited by coldel on Wednesday 26th June 10:19
Blackpuddin said:
fourstardan said:
How the bookies put us still at odds on favourite is beyond me.
That is remarkable for sure. I expect if you looked at the odds from foreign betting firms they'd have different market favourites.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
All this negativity for Southgate
I can remember Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor, Kevin Keegan, Steve Mclaren, Roy Hodgson. All of whom had some veritable disasters managing the England Team. And yet Southgate, plays it canny, racks up Group WINS ( not second places) and sees us into semi's or finals.
WTAF do you want?
Exciting football gets you beat - ask Keegan.
I actually think that we will play a lot better now that we are in the knock out stages, we almost always do.
And to those wanting a replacement to Southgate, who do you suggest, that is available and would want the job?
The FA like him, because his tournament record is second to none (of the previous England Managers), and he never causes any embarrassment to them.
Are you seriously implying that Taylor, Hodgson, McClaren or Keegan didn't get any grief????I can remember Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor, Kevin Keegan, Steve Mclaren, Roy Hodgson. All of whom had some veritable disasters managing the England Team. And yet Southgate, plays it canny, racks up Group WINS ( not second places) and sees us into semi's or finals.
WTAF do you want?
Exciting football gets you beat - ask Keegan.
I actually think that we will play a lot better now that we are in the knock out stages, we almost always do.
And to those wanting a replacement to Southgate, who do you suggest, that is available and would want the job?
The FA like him, because his tournament record is second to none (of the previous England Managers), and he never causes any embarrassment to them.
TEKNOPUG said:
Bellingham has played 261 games and is not even 21 yet. Won La Liga, Copa Del Rey, CL, Top Real Madrid goalscorer, La Liga player of the year, CL young player of the year...he's probably knackered. Yet he keeps picking the same players again and again and expecting a different performance.
What's the point in having a 26 man squad if you are only going to play 11 of them? Why drop Grealish, Rashford, Maddison, Maguire etc if you aren't actually going to play any of their replacements? The entire England squad, man for man, are better than every of team and player in the group. He should be able to fashion a winning team out of any combination of them. It's not like he's got 8 Prem players and the rest of the squad are from the lower leagues.
Henderson
Dunk
Gomez
Konsa
Mainoo
Wharton
Bowen
Eze
Watkins
Toney
Gordon
Those 11 should be able to beat Slovenia!
After the first game, it was clear that there were issues, yet no change in personnel, formation or tactics. Second game even worse, still no change. First 45mins of game 3, still dreadful. Literally waits until the the 70th minute to make any sort of attacking change. Gives Gordon 5mins......
I don't know what is worse, that he's incapable of recognising that there are problems and how to fix them or whether he genuinely thinks everything is fine and it's going according to his plan?
And I have no doubt that they are playing as per his instructions. You have all the time on the training ground, all the analytical & tactical work off it, all the pre game and half time team talks - and 8 previous years of doing this - if you wanted them to play a high line with quick passing for example, you've damn well had enough time to drill that into the players, that's what you want and anything else is unacceptable. Fergie, Klopp, Pep, Jose etc wouldn't allow a group of players to ignore their instructions or fail to do what they were told for 3 games in a row! They'd be called out in training, players would be dropped, they'd be mass substitutions, hair-dryer treatment at half time. Hell, Big Ange would resign on the spot if one of his teams showed such little attacking intent 3 games in a row!
But evidently not Southgate. He either wants them to play this way or he lacks the mental fibre to impose his will on the players. GIven he managed to get relegated and fired in his only previous club role and loses to every decent team he faces in a tournament, it's probably the latter.
And the list of players above shows the point. That we have a generational squad, probably the strongest 26 in the world right now. What's the point in having a 26 man squad if you are only going to play 11 of them? Why drop Grealish, Rashford, Maddison, Maguire etc if you aren't actually going to play any of their replacements? The entire England squad, man for man, are better than every of team and player in the group. He should be able to fashion a winning team out of any combination of them. It's not like he's got 8 Prem players and the rest of the squad are from the lower leagues.
Henderson
Dunk
Gomez
Konsa
Mainoo
Wharton
Bowen
Eze
Watkins
Toney
Gordon
Those 11 should be able to beat Slovenia!
After the first game, it was clear that there were issues, yet no change in personnel, formation or tactics. Second game even worse, still no change. First 45mins of game 3, still dreadful. Literally waits until the the 70th minute to make any sort of attacking change. Gives Gordon 5mins......
I don't know what is worse, that he's incapable of recognising that there are problems and how to fix them or whether he genuinely thinks everything is fine and it's going according to his plan?
And I have no doubt that they are playing as per his instructions. You have all the time on the training ground, all the analytical & tactical work off it, all the pre game and half time team talks - and 8 previous years of doing this - if you wanted them to play a high line with quick passing for example, you've damn well had enough time to drill that into the players, that's what you want and anything else is unacceptable. Fergie, Klopp, Pep, Jose etc wouldn't allow a group of players to ignore their instructions or fail to do what they were told for 3 games in a row! They'd be called out in training, players would be dropped, they'd be mass substitutions, hair-dryer treatment at half time. Hell, Big Ange would resign on the spot if one of his teams showed such little attacking intent 3 games in a row!
But evidently not Southgate. He either wants them to play this way or he lacks the mental fibre to impose his will on the players. GIven he managed to get relegated and fired in his only previous club role and loses to every decent team he faces in a tournament, it's probably the latter.
Any success we have had the last few years has been in spite of Southgate, rather than because of him.
Imagine a Pep Klopp or similar coming in, we would see a sea change in performance.
I think being too cautious is the most frustrating trait a football team can have, and England are the World Champions of being too cautious. I hate it.
Half time analysis of Kane giving up, and moving into midfield was spot on, he should play as a 9, or not play.
Obtain possession, move ball into final third, then make one of three decisions:
Cross
Pass into area/danger zone just in front of area
Shoot
Any player not doing this shouldn't be on the pitch. Football is a simple game, it's not chess, there are no points for possession stats, pass completion stats etc.
Too much football is risk averse crap nowadays, hateful to watch.
Half time analysis of Kane giving up, and moving into midfield was spot on, he should play as a 9, or not play.
Obtain possession, move ball into final third, then make one of three decisions:
Cross
Pass into area/danger zone just in front of area
Shoot
Any player not doing this shouldn't be on the pitch. Football is a simple game, it's not chess, there are no points for possession stats, pass completion stats etc.
Too much football is risk averse crap nowadays, hateful to watch.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
All this negativity for Southgate
I can remember Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor, Kevin Keegan, Steve Mclaren, Roy Hodgson. All of whom had some veritable disasters managing the England Team. And yet Southgate, plays it canny, racks up Group WINS ( not second places) and sees us into semi's or finals.
WTAF do you want?
Exciting football gets you beat - ask Keegan.
I actually think that we will play a lot better now that we are in the knock out stages, we almost always do.
And to those wanting a replacement to Southgate, who do you suggest, that is available and would want the job?
The FA like him, because his tournament record is second to none (of the previous England Managers), and he never causes any embarrassment to them.
Our tournament record under him is decent against poor teams. Come up against anyone decent and even if we get the lead we capitulate and lose every time, We've very much flattered to deceive for years.I can remember Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor, Kevin Keegan, Steve Mclaren, Roy Hodgson. All of whom had some veritable disasters managing the England Team. And yet Southgate, plays it canny, racks up Group WINS ( not second places) and sees us into semi's or finals.
WTAF do you want?
Exciting football gets you beat - ask Keegan.
I actually think that we will play a lot better now that we are in the knock out stages, we almost always do.
And to those wanting a replacement to Southgate, who do you suggest, that is available and would want the job?
The FA like him, because his tournament record is second to none (of the previous England Managers), and he never causes any embarrassment to them.
Is a bit of passion and desire really too much to ask for? From serial losers like Southgate and Kane the answer is yes apparently.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
And yet Southgate, plays it canny, racks up Group WINS ( not second places) and sees us into semi's or finals.
WTAF do you want?
He's managed to win a group consisting of the 21st, 32nd and 57th ranked teams in the world, by scoring 2 goals (both from deflected crosses) and winning 1 game. Probably the weakest ever Euro group and managed to create 2 scoring chances per game (only 2 of which were taken). The man's a genius for sure, certainly struggle to imagine how anyone else could achieve such a feat.WTAF do you want?
The post above is spot on. It's a safe approach that isn't likely to get you fired but it won't win you anything either but then this seems to be a bit of a theme with England managers for some reason.
I have to say we've stunk out the tournament so far. Probably the worse team to watch which is a sad indictment when you consider some of the other teams that are taking part and the array of talent we have.
The quicker we get knocked out and come home, the better tbh as it's a bit embarrassing at the moment.
I have to say we've stunk out the tournament so far. Probably the worse team to watch which is a sad indictment when you consider some of the other teams that are taking part and the array of talent we have.
The quicker we get knocked out and come home, the better tbh as it's a bit embarrassing at the moment.
TEKNOPUG said:
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
And yet Southgate, plays it canny, racks up Group WINS ( not second places) and sees us into semi's or finals.
WTAF do you want?
He's managed to win a group consisting of the 21st, 32nd and 57th ranked teams in the world, by scoring 2 goals (both from deflected crosses) and winning 1 game. Probably the weakest ever Euro group and managed to create 2 scoring chances per game (only 2 of which were taken). The man's a genius for sure, certainly struggle to imagine how anyone else could achieve such a feat.WTAF do you want?
As regards players being tired? GS probably has them working late into the night signing rainbow and blm merch for the FA shop.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
they got a s
t load of grief, but they also had some utterly abysmal results in the tournaments, and I think in all cases never made it out of the group stage.
Southgate has had some very, very fortunate draws to be honest. The World Cup in 2018 for example, beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden in 90 minutes, penalties to go through against Colombia, lost to Belgium and Croatia. That was enough to get to a Semi and is given as an example of what some see as success? I don't buy it.t load of grief, but they also had some utterly abysmal results in the tournaments, and I think in all cases never made it out of the group stage.I think the standards of the upper tier international sides have dropped massively over the last 10 years anyway, so they have a chance, but the squad is not particularly strong. Foden and Bellingham are probably a couple of years off being at their peak, whilst Kane is 3 years past his. There's not a core of peak players in the squad, so the next manager may actually win something at the next two tournaments.
Blackpuddin said:
Anyone see Pickford giving his defence the 'calm it lads, slow it down' signals last night? The exact opposite of what's actually needed.
He certainly wasn't behaving like he does at Everton He generally spends most of the time screaming and going a bit mental at the team even if we are winning .
His whole body language last night said he was uncomfortable.
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