30K mark broken equals big sarcastic wow
Discussion
Sorry, have to comment on this. A James Bond special edition 09 car has hit the £30,000 mark and others (Lotus haters) use this as evidence elsewhere in this forum that it is somehow therefore a bad car?
The shock that a car that once cost 50K is now only worth 30K now that its is three years old...yep... we are now in late Feb 2012 and the 09 plate suggests the car could be March 09. Guys, are we really trying to suggest that because a car has 'only' kept 60% of its residual value after 3 years that this is somehow surprising or is evidence that makes the Evora a bad car?????? Oh but it has plus 2, sport, tech and premium pack you say, as well as reverse cam and power mirrors, so it was actually a 60K car you say. Well, as a special edition brought out by Lotus for promotional purposes no doubt, I don't think anyone actually paid for those options on this car...but, for arguments sake, even if they did, that still means this car has kept 50% of its value after 3 years...not bad at all given that 20%, or probably 17.5% back then, was VAT and was wiped off as soon as it had done 1 mile. The colour and fact that it is a special ediction has probably also detracted from its value. My point? If you are considering buying an Evora...dont let the doom mongers put you off...it's a great new or better still, used, proposition.
How does this compare to residuals on other cars, say Porsche, Bentley, Aston, Audi R8 etc. Favourably I bet!
The shock that a car that once cost 50K is now only worth 30K now that its is three years old...yep... we are now in late Feb 2012 and the 09 plate suggests the car could be March 09. Guys, are we really trying to suggest that because a car has 'only' kept 60% of its residual value after 3 years that this is somehow surprising or is evidence that makes the Evora a bad car?????? Oh but it has plus 2, sport, tech and premium pack you say, as well as reverse cam and power mirrors, so it was actually a 60K car you say. Well, as a special edition brought out by Lotus for promotional purposes no doubt, I don't think anyone actually paid for those options on this car...but, for arguments sake, even if they did, that still means this car has kept 50% of its value after 3 years...not bad at all given that 20%, or probably 17.5% back then, was VAT and was wiped off as soon as it had done 1 mile. The colour and fact that it is a special ediction has probably also detracted from its value. My point? If you are considering buying an Evora...dont let the doom mongers put you off...it's a great new or better still, used, proposition.
How does this compare to residuals on other cars, say Porsche, Bentley, Aston, Audi R8 etc. Favourably I bet!
That car is nor representative of the Market...it's ugly....it's been on the Market for ages....I didn't buy it becoz of the colour:-( these cars loose as much as a cayman or 911 if u factor in the true value of a porsche with options....anyway I've driven a 997, cayman and evora....the evora was easily the best:-) hence I bough one:-)
Just try and ignore the haters. I know it's not easy some days, for reasons that continue to baffle me, there seem to be no shortage of them on here.
But think about how tragic an individual you have to be to spend your spare time on the Lotus forum, when you don't like Lotuses.
It's virtually the textbook definition of a loser!
Quite what they get out of slagging Lotuses on here or what they're hoping to achieve by it is a complete mystery.
I thought it very interesting what recently emerged from Chris Harris, someone who has done about as much as anyone to perpetuate the myth surrounding the 911 GT3RS, and consequently revered by porsche nuts. Amid all the hoo har about 'it must be amazing for a journalist to impoverish himself to buy the car of his dreams' it turns out said journalist then saw fit to pay further good money to have the suspension changed on his previous car, in a bid to improve the car's harsh ride!!
then he posted this:
"Bottom line, any sports car developed in the UK will tend to be more supple because our roads are terrible. And getting worse.
As for the GT3, I still think it's great in standard spec given its intended use. The car is set-up for a compromise between good European surfaces and race track. For that, it's pretty awesome, but a little to firm for the UK. Over time, the requirements for what we might term a 'competent' sports car chassis in Europe and in the UK have diverged dramatically, simply because we don't repair our roads in the UK.
Manufacturers can't be expected to do a 'UK' chassis, but it would be nice!!
I like suppleness. Works on every level: comfort, grip, pace."
Pretty compelling argument in favour of the Evora I'd say!
I don't expect porschophiles to take my word for it but you'd think they'd listen to one of their heroes. I bet it makes no difference however but that's bigotry for you.
But think about how tragic an individual you have to be to spend your spare time on the Lotus forum, when you don't like Lotuses.
It's virtually the textbook definition of a loser!
Quite what they get out of slagging Lotuses on here or what they're hoping to achieve by it is a complete mystery.
I thought it very interesting what recently emerged from Chris Harris, someone who has done about as much as anyone to perpetuate the myth surrounding the 911 GT3RS, and consequently revered by porsche nuts. Amid all the hoo har about 'it must be amazing for a journalist to impoverish himself to buy the car of his dreams' it turns out said journalist then saw fit to pay further good money to have the suspension changed on his previous car, in a bid to improve the car's harsh ride!!
then he posted this:
"Bottom line, any sports car developed in the UK will tend to be more supple because our roads are terrible. And getting worse.
As for the GT3, I still think it's great in standard spec given its intended use. The car is set-up for a compromise between good European surfaces and race track. For that, it's pretty awesome, but a little to firm for the UK. Over time, the requirements for what we might term a 'competent' sports car chassis in Europe and in the UK have diverged dramatically, simply because we don't repair our roads in the UK.
Manufacturers can't be expected to do a 'UK' chassis, but it would be nice!!
I like suppleness. Works on every level: comfort, grip, pace."
Pretty compelling argument in favour of the Evora I'd say!
I don't expect porschophiles to take my word for it but you'd think they'd listen to one of their heroes. I bet it makes no difference however but that's bigotry for you.
Interesting piece in the new EVO mag, running the new 911 up against its rivals, including the Evora S IPS which, as tested ran to £71k....
Usual results - Evora has astonishing ride, handling and steering, so pure, alert, better than the rest of group etc. etc. - "if only all cars rode this way" they say. It just about copes in the power stakes but its the price that knocks it down the pecking order in what is perceived to be a very competitive segment, where it doesn't have "the quality or refinement of the Carrera, nor does it have the same level of practicality".
The cars by the way are the 911 3.4 Carrera, BMW M3, Jaguar XKR, Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Coupe and the Nissan GTR.
From the people who I know who have bought an Evora, it is rarely as a result of meticulously weighing up the pros and cons of the competition. They want an Evora and that's it. End of.
Usual results - Evora has astonishing ride, handling and steering, so pure, alert, better than the rest of group etc. etc. - "if only all cars rode this way" they say. It just about copes in the power stakes but its the price that knocks it down the pecking order in what is perceived to be a very competitive segment, where it doesn't have "the quality or refinement of the Carrera, nor does it have the same level of practicality".
The cars by the way are the 911 3.4 Carrera, BMW M3, Jaguar XKR, Mercedes Benz C63 AMG Coupe and the Nissan GTR.
From the people who I know who have bought an Evora, it is rarely as a result of meticulously weighing up the pros and cons of the competition. They want an Evora and that's it. End of.
It's always porsche fans for whatever reason.
I've no idea why they feel so threatened by someone preferring the design, engineering and driving characteristics of a Lotus but there you go.
I can only imagine they are so enamoured by porsches and so convinced of the superiority of german cars that they simply cannot compute how anyone would prefer a car made in Norfolk. Therefore they don't believe anyone who claims they do and go out of their way to discredit them with the usual cliches. You'd think it would be enough that porsche is the most successful sports car company in the world really wouldn't you?
Again why they spend their spare time on here is anybody's guess. I have no interest in visiting the porsche forum so I find it hard to understand. You don't see Nissan GTR fans down here slagging off the Evora but that's another car that seems to get right up porsche fans noses.
This depreciation thing says it all for me. It's simple prejudice and ignorance. As you point out they don't really have a case at all. There are many porsches that depreciate far, far worse than that.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3689060.htm
mmm, perhaps that's too easy, how about:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3689060.htm
996 turbo's have broken below the £20k barrier too I picked a newer, lower mileage example. But does that mean they are hopeless? Of course not. I have an aversion to 911s but I wouldn't stoop that low. That's simply moronic.
What really troubles me though is that those with a casual interest in Lotus might come to this forum and see all the negativity and then run for the hills or to the nearest porsche showroom. They can have no idea of the strange people that lurk here nor what their real agenda is.
I've no idea why they feel so threatened by someone preferring the design, engineering and driving characteristics of a Lotus but there you go.
I can only imagine they are so enamoured by porsches and so convinced of the superiority of german cars that they simply cannot compute how anyone would prefer a car made in Norfolk. Therefore they don't believe anyone who claims they do and go out of their way to discredit them with the usual cliches. You'd think it would be enough that porsche is the most successful sports car company in the world really wouldn't you?
Again why they spend their spare time on here is anybody's guess. I have no interest in visiting the porsche forum so I find it hard to understand. You don't see Nissan GTR fans down here slagging off the Evora but that's another car that seems to get right up porsche fans noses.
This depreciation thing says it all for me. It's simple prejudice and ignorance. As you point out they don't really have a case at all. There are many porsches that depreciate far, far worse than that.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3689060.htm
mmm, perhaps that's too easy, how about:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3689060.htm
996 turbo's have broken below the £20k barrier too I picked a newer, lower mileage example. But does that mean they are hopeless? Of course not. I have an aversion to 911s but I wouldn't stoop that low. That's simply moronic.
What really troubles me though is that those with a casual interest in Lotus might come to this forum and see all the negativity and then run for the hills or to the nearest porsche showroom. They can have no idea of the strange people that lurk here nor what their real agenda is.
Missed all your posts, such nice weather I thought I'd spend the morning re-commissioning the M100 and getting it out the barn for the first time since last autumn. What a fabulous little car so glad that we kept it when they were at their height of unpopularity and then spent time ensuring it would stay in pristine condition for the future, I believe the most developed car Lotus have built to date.
The main reason I post is to counter the inaccurate rubbish that is so believably and forcefully posted by the alleged Lotus Enthusiasts, if they are not questioned, just more myth and fantasy is built up about the marque, which can happily stand without it . I've spent plenty of my hard earned money on many new Lotus products over the years, and have been passionate about Lotus since I was a school boy, but readers need some perspective .
The main reason I post is to counter the inaccurate rubbish that is so believably and forcefully posted by the alleged Lotus Enthusiasts, if they are not questioned, just more myth and fantasy is built up about the marque, which can happily stand without it . I've spent plenty of my hard earned money on many new Lotus products over the years, and have been passionate about Lotus since I was a school boy, but readers need some perspective .
I think he has a point to be humbled by a car you consider inferior, either on the road or more responsibly on the track must be hard to take when you've bought into the porsche myth (at great expense).
I can tell you now an S1 Elise driver took great delight in catching and passing my V12 Vantage at Brands Hatch last year. If I didn't happen to be a Lotus fan or able to understand the difference between car magazine hype and reality, I'd probably find that slice of humble pie quite hard to swallow. With a total disregard for the cost of P-Zero Corsa tyres and possible excursions into the gravel trap I'm confident I could have given him a run for his money but not needing to worry about such things is merely another advantage of an Elise.
Ravon if you're such a crusader of what you believe to be 'the truth' then how about the admission by Chris Harris that 911s are not as well suited to british roads as a car developed over here, to the point that he saw fit to change the suspension on his car? Is it fantasy to suggest that such a thing would be unnecessary with a Lotus? That's only common sense of course but it must be a fairly shocking revelation to those who believe that porsche is all.
I can tell you now an S1 Elise driver took great delight in catching and passing my V12 Vantage at Brands Hatch last year. If I didn't happen to be a Lotus fan or able to understand the difference between car magazine hype and reality, I'd probably find that slice of humble pie quite hard to swallow. With a total disregard for the cost of P-Zero Corsa tyres and possible excursions into the gravel trap I'm confident I could have given him a run for his money but not needing to worry about such things is merely another advantage of an Elise.
Ravon if you're such a crusader of what you believe to be 'the truth' then how about the admission by Chris Harris that 911s are not as well suited to british roads as a car developed over here, to the point that he saw fit to change the suspension on his car? Is it fantasy to suggest that such a thing would be unnecessary with a Lotus? That's only common sense of course but it must be a fairly shocking revelation to those who believe that porsche is all.
The Pits, I have to confess I've changed the dampers on my Porsche's, the 964RS was shocking on anything other than smooth roads, but pretty good on track, Manthey Racing developed a kit in conjunction with KW, and as I know them both pretty well I was an early adopter. The car was correctly panned by most of the press when it was new for it's awful road ride. But as a track car it's been fantastic and that's what I purchased it for, for me it's problem is it's value, £25K when I got it, now £60K, too much for a pensioner. The 968 CS was the Lotus rivaling Porsche, fitted as standard with Koni Sport dampers, worked very well, but when I rebuilt it completely in my first year of retirement I fitted KW because of my relationship with Manthey. I had the Koni's rebuilt and re-valved for spherical jointed suspension, and use them to this day on my 944 Racing car. The M100 Elan was getting terrifyingly scruffy underneath, so I took every moving part off it, shot blast, metal spray and powdercoat, all nuts, bolts and washers re plated or replaced, aluminium uprights vapour blasted and corrosion treated. The dampers were starting to leak, and no factory replacements were available, at the time Proflex aluminium cased adjustable damper were the only alternative, so I fitted those, and spent several days methodically trying to optimise the set up. It now feels pretty good on the road, I've not driven it on track yet. My Plus2 Elan also had Proflex after an original broke. The Caterham has Dynamics dampers, So lots of people like to fiddle with dampers, I think I saw that there is already an aftermarket Evora damper, from the young man that sells dampers to all the Elise track boys, ( just can't think of his name...age I'm afraid ). Chris Harris from memory has a relationship with the english guys who make all the WRC Peugeot dampers, they are pretty special and a pretty special price too, I imagine he changed to those, he certainly had them on the VLN 997 Cup that he raced.
You don't have to convince me about what Lotus do well, it's just comparatively, a lot of other things, ( probably mostly due to lack of resource ) they do pretty badly, and charge a premium price, for what comparatively is not a premium product.
You don't have to convince me about what Lotus do well, it's just comparatively, a lot of other things, ( probably mostly due to lack of resource ) they do pretty badly, and charge a premium price, for what comparatively is not a premium product.
1981linley said:
Sorry, have to comment on this. A James Bond special edition 09 car has hit the £30,000 mark and others (Lotus haters) use this as evidence elsewhere in this forum that it is somehow therefore a bad car?
The shock that a car that once cost 50K is now only worth 30K now that its is three years old...yep... we are now in late Feb 2012 and the 09 plate suggests the car could be March 09. Guys, are we really trying to suggest that because a car has 'only' kept 60% of its residual value after 3 years that this is somehow surprising or is evidence that makes the Evora a bad car?????? Oh but it has plus 2, sport, tech and premium pack you say, as well as reverse cam and power mirrors, so it was actually a 60K car you say. Well, as a special edition brought out by Lotus for promotional purposes no doubt, I don't think anyone actually paid for those options on this car...but, for arguments sake, even if they did, that still means this car has kept 50% of its value after 3 years...not bad at all given that 20%, or probably 17.5% back then, was VAT and was wiped off as soon as it had done 1 mile. The colour and fact that it is a special ediction has probably also detracted from its value. My point? If you are considering buying an Evora...dont let the doom mongers put you off...it's a great new or better still, used, proposition.
How does this compare to residuals on other cars, say Porsche, Bentley, Aston, Audi R8 etc. Favourably I bet!
struggling to understand why you start yet another thread on this?The shock that a car that once cost 50K is now only worth 30K now that its is three years old...yep... we are now in late Feb 2012 and the 09 plate suggests the car could be March 09. Guys, are we really trying to suggest that because a car has 'only' kept 60% of its residual value after 3 years that this is somehow surprising or is evidence that makes the Evora a bad car?????? Oh but it has plus 2, sport, tech and premium pack you say, as well as reverse cam and power mirrors, so it was actually a 60K car you say. Well, as a special edition brought out by Lotus for promotional purposes no doubt, I don't think anyone actually paid for those options on this car...but, for arguments sake, even if they did, that still means this car has kept 50% of its value after 3 years...not bad at all given that 20%, or probably 17.5% back then, was VAT and was wiped off as soon as it had done 1 mile. The colour and fact that it is a special ediction has probably also detracted from its value. My point? If you are considering buying an Evora...dont let the doom mongers put you off...it's a great new or better still, used, proposition.
How does this compare to residuals on other cars, say Porsche, Bentley, Aston, Audi R8 etc. Favourably I bet!
also, can you at least be consistent? no way was that car £50K showroom...
1981linley said:
Read on within my original post...I think you will find I concede the James Bond car would probably come in at 60K with all the options, yet nevertheless has still retained a quite massive 50% of it's value after three years.
Lack of resource is mainly because everyone, even in their home market, buys porsches instead.
That's why I don't like to see porsches promoted at Lotus's expense, there are enough of the flipping things about as it is. If lotus goes under it will be a another tragedy for those of us who prefer to drive something else. From many years of driving and owning many different sports cars, no other marque has delivered like Lotus have for me. In terms of sheer driving pleasure they are second to none. Build quality and all that stuff that matters in the showroom is an entirely different matter and clearly what counts most for most people. But when you're driving, really driving, do you really give a stuff about where the indicator stalks come from? I would argue no. And also that if driving pleasure is your priority (fully accepting that for most people it isn't really) then you owe it to yourself to try a Lotus. My experience of owning four cars made in Hethel has been overwhelmingly positive. So I don't find the stereotypes don't square with my experience.
Equally I wouldn't expect a modern Alfa to rust but alarming numbers of people who actually like the look of them chose a BMW instead based on a 40 year old reputation. It's much the same with people who might be attracted to Lotus but don't feel confident in owning one. I fear you are doing plenty to perpetuate this very out of date and quite unfair reputation.
Some of those sitting on the fence might be influenced by the fact that the Lotus forum appears to be frequented by people who put the company down. Their image is fragile enough among the average car buyers and I do think it's damaging to a company that, in my opinion of course, has shown far more talent, ingenuity, creativity and achieved a staggering amount when you consider their limited resources than Porsche has. A porsche with Lotus resources doesn't bear thinking about whereas a Lotus with porsche resources would be an absolute game changer. In my opinion of course.
That's why I don't like to see porsches promoted at Lotus's expense, there are enough of the flipping things about as it is. If lotus goes under it will be a another tragedy for those of us who prefer to drive something else. From many years of driving and owning many different sports cars, no other marque has delivered like Lotus have for me. In terms of sheer driving pleasure they are second to none. Build quality and all that stuff that matters in the showroom is an entirely different matter and clearly what counts most for most people. But when you're driving, really driving, do you really give a stuff about where the indicator stalks come from? I would argue no. And also that if driving pleasure is your priority (fully accepting that for most people it isn't really) then you owe it to yourself to try a Lotus. My experience of owning four cars made in Hethel has been overwhelmingly positive. So I don't find the stereotypes don't square with my experience.
Equally I wouldn't expect a modern Alfa to rust but alarming numbers of people who actually like the look of them chose a BMW instead based on a 40 year old reputation. It's much the same with people who might be attracted to Lotus but don't feel confident in owning one. I fear you are doing plenty to perpetuate this very out of date and quite unfair reputation.
Some of those sitting on the fence might be influenced by the fact that the Lotus forum appears to be frequented by people who put the company down. Their image is fragile enough among the average car buyers and I do think it's damaging to a company that, in my opinion of course, has shown far more talent, ingenuity, creativity and achieved a staggering amount when you consider their limited resources than Porsche has. A porsche with Lotus resources doesn't bear thinking about whereas a Lotus with porsche resources would be an absolute game changer. In my opinion of course.
Scuffers said:
Sorry...here's me thinking we live in a liberal democracy where freedom of speech, expression, of the press and written word are fundamental human rights...you have no monopoly on posts, nor can dictate what posts anyone else can create. If I want to express my opinion, even if it is duplicated on a different thread, then I will. After all, you seem to sing the same old tune in every post you create which is typically to belittle others, quote their posts out of context and persue a predictably anti Lotus and pro Porsche agenda. Maybe there is something within the psyche of the Porsche lover that sees them lean towards intolerance of others, assume a position of superiority, leads them to think they have a monopoly on knowledge and assume a suspiciously fascist stance in terms of their approach to others.1981linley said:
Sorry...here's me thinking we live in a liberal democracy where freedom of speech, expression, of the press and written word are fundamental human rights.. blar-blar-blar!
we do, but with democracy comes responsibility, and being in-consistent and reactionary are not signs of somebody that's rational or responsible.(oh, and for the record, why do you think I am a Porsche lover? I don;t own one and probably never will, on the other hand I do own a Lotus or two....
Everyone needs to calm down!
I posted the original 30k observation.
I have one and am very happy with it.
A mate with a 1M and I swapped cars today. I didn't enjoy being out of the Evora and he loved it. He's going to find one he liked it so much.
The reason I posted it was the inverse of what has been assumed. It's great news, being below 30k, the car is more accessible than ever and will become more popular.
Share the love. Drive your car. Calm down.
I posted the original 30k observation.
I have one and am very happy with it.
A mate with a 1M and I swapped cars today. I didn't enjoy being out of the Evora and he loved it. He's going to find one he liked it so much.
The reason I posted it was the inverse of what has been assumed. It's great news, being below 30k, the car is more accessible than ever and will become more popular.
Share the love. Drive your car. Calm down.
We are all used to the regular "special edition" versions of cars from Lotus, and the Evora has certainly had its fair share of late. Personally, I think they do it too much and its not interesting anymore. However, whether you like them or not, no one can argue they are not consistent with the promotion: The F1 livery versions make sense for the racing heritage. The limited edition auction versions are obviously associated with whatever celebrity/charity promotion.
My personal favourite, and only type I think are the "right direction" for Lotus special editions, was the Roger Becker Elise. Maybe because it's associated with a legendary personality within Lotus, similar to Lamborghini's Valentino Balboni, or Ferrari's Dino/Enzo.
However, this retro 007 one-off version is one I don't get. This car was never in Bond, that was the Esprit. Dressing it up as that car to promote the connection looks a little off to me. If they want that connection, get the Evora into a current Bond movie and let it make its own history. That's something we'd all love to see, and the car certainly is good enough to deserve centre stage.
My personal favourite, and only type I think are the "right direction" for Lotus special editions, was the Roger Becker Elise. Maybe because it's associated with a legendary personality within Lotus, similar to Lamborghini's Valentino Balboni, or Ferrari's Dino/Enzo.
However, this retro 007 one-off version is one I don't get. This car was never in Bond, that was the Esprit. Dressing it up as that car to promote the connection looks a little off to me. If they want that connection, get the Evora into a current Bond movie and let it make its own history. That's something we'd all love to see, and the car certainly is good enough to deserve centre stage.
The Pits, it was Nitron, here are a couple of pages of after market dampers for Evora's http://www.nitron.co.uk/Shop/BrowseCategory/190.
Dear Mr Pits,
I would humbly but firmly suggest that the source of so much negativity on these Lotus/Evora forums is you and your relentless spouting of complete b
ks about anything that is not Lotus.
On this very short thread so far you have talked bks about Porsche, Alfa, BMW and Chris Harris.
It would help if you were more of a car fan or motoring enthusiast and less of an apologist.
I like the Evora and very much hope it succeeds, but an Evora thread can't be read on PH nowadays without your nonsense getting in the way.
I would humbly but firmly suggest that the source of so much negativity on these Lotus/Evora forums is you and your relentless spouting of complete b
ks about anything that is not Lotus.On this very short thread so far you have talked b
ks about Porsche, Alfa, BMW and Chris Harris.It would help if you were more of a car fan or motoring enthusiast and less of an apologist.
I like the Evora and very much hope it succeeds, but an Evora thread can't be read on PH nowadays without your nonsense getting in the way.
Gassing Station | Evora | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff