Helping an alcoholic
Discussion
My sister is trying to help a friend of hers who is a heavy duty alcoholic. I won't go into the gory details but his body is shutting down, he's in a very very bad way, and it's all accompanied by major depression on the point of suicide.
My sister wants to help him (he has no family and no friends left) but can't get anything from the NHS. They tried A&E (it was an emergency at the time) because they wanted him sectioned under the mental health act but the A&E Registrar wouldn't do anything. In the end security were called and my sister and her friend (let's call him Bob) were escorted out. No they weren't violent, but the doc wouldn't help, and their answer was "leave."
Next they tried the GP but he wouldn't help either. In a very disinterested voice he said "are you suicidal" Bob said "no" and that was the end of it.
This guy is dying (hopefully he's salvagable), if he doens't kill himself first, and yet nobody will help.
I've looked online but all the NHS and help sites end up pointing you at charities such as AA, and private rehab facilities (which they don't have the money for). There doesn't seem to be anything in the NHS to help.
Does anybody have experience of this and know where they can turn? They are based in SE London.
Thanks
My sister wants to help him (he has no family and no friends left) but can't get anything from the NHS. They tried A&E (it was an emergency at the time) because they wanted him sectioned under the mental health act but the A&E Registrar wouldn't do anything. In the end security were called and my sister and her friend (let's call him Bob) were escorted out. No they weren't violent, but the doc wouldn't help, and their answer was "leave."
Next they tried the GP but he wouldn't help either. In a very disinterested voice he said "are you suicidal" Bob said "no" and that was the end of it.
This guy is dying (hopefully he's salvagable), if he doens't kill himself first, and yet nobody will help.
I've looked online but all the NHS and help sites end up pointing you at charities such as AA, and private rehab facilities (which they don't have the money for). There doesn't seem to be anything in the NHS to help.
Does anybody have experience of this and know where they can turn? They are based in SE London.
Thanks
Tell her to do herself a favour and walk away.
People like this cannot be helped.
They will lie, and steal, and do anything to get booze. Anyone in the immediate vicinity will be damaged by this.
She may well harbour some sort of stupid Mother Theresa fantasy. She needs to get real. No good will come of her being involed.
WALK. AWAY.
People like this cannot be helped.
They will lie, and steal, and do anything to get booze. Anyone in the immediate vicinity will be damaged by this.
She may well harbour some sort of stupid Mother Theresa fantasy. She needs to get real. No good will come of her being involed.
WALK. AWAY.
Edited by Soovy on Thursday 16th December 09:58
He will help himself - sort of. It's a real Catch22 situation.
He will say anything at all if it means he will get a drink quicker. From what she says, yes he does want to get off the booze (at least the remaining sane part of his mind wants to), but the addict part of his mind is - well - completely addicted. He is delusional (imagining all sorts of things to be fact; stories about his childhood, his university education, what he studied, what he has done with his life since then - he's in his 30's or 40's I believe). And because he is living in some sort of altered reality it's not as easy as just saying "does he want help", I'm not sure he really knows where he is, or what is going on around him.
There are reasons why he's got into this state and his mental state is at the bottom of it all; the depression came before the booze if you see what I mean.
My sis isn't naive, no mother theresa complex, just has a friend who has fallen through the cracks and she would like to get him some help. But from the investigations we've done, we can't actually find anything or anyone in the NHS system, who can help.
There must be a process? Some way of getting him committed (his mental state is such that this is appropriate - even without the alcohol)? Or is it simply too difficult so we just ignore him til he dies
(We being the royal "we" IYSWIM - not anybody on here!)
He will say anything at all if it means he will get a drink quicker. From what she says, yes he does want to get off the booze (at least the remaining sane part of his mind wants to), but the addict part of his mind is - well - completely addicted. He is delusional (imagining all sorts of things to be fact; stories about his childhood, his university education, what he studied, what he has done with his life since then - he's in his 30's or 40's I believe). And because he is living in some sort of altered reality it's not as easy as just saying "does he want help", I'm not sure he really knows where he is, or what is going on around him.
There are reasons why he's got into this state and his mental state is at the bottom of it all; the depression came before the booze if you see what I mean.
My sis isn't naive, no mother theresa complex, just has a friend who has fallen through the cracks and she would like to get him some help. But from the investigations we've done, we can't actually find anything or anyone in the NHS system, who can help.
There must be a process? Some way of getting him committed (his mental state is such that this is appropriate - even without the alcohol)? Or is it simply too difficult so we just ignore him til he dies
(We being the royal "we" IYSWIM - not anybody on here!)dreamer75 said:
He will help himself - sort of. It's a real Catch22 situation.
There are reasons why he's got into this state and his mental state is at the bottom of it all; the depression came before the booze if you see what I mean.
I meant does he want to get the problem solved? If not, then it won't happen.There are reasons why he's got into this state and his mental state is at the bottom of it all; the depression came before the booze if you see what I mean.
Yes, something caused the alcoholism. See my original reply. Alcoholism doesn't just happen.
I would suggest you look up your local Mental Heath NHS Trust and their Drug & Acohol Team (DAT) for help/support - there may also be information on the local council website under Adult Social Services as these teams are often jointly run. It may be that your sister's friend requires input from both a community mental health team as well as from the DAT. As well as a self-referral he should also be able to get referred by his GP.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Not really - he has moments of lucidity and wants to get better, he also has the opposite. And he is an addict.It just seems very sad - he has no family, his friends are either alcoholics or have deserted him, and the GP won't lift a finger. I appreciate that it's almost certainly a no-win no-hope situation but just to leave a friend in that state and shrug it off as "not our problem" seems very inhumane. At least not to try and help does
Soovy said:
dreamer75 said:
He will say anything at all if it means he will get a drink quicker.
Tells you all you need to know.Stay out of it. He's done for anyway.
And if he's dillusional, it's not just the alcoholism. These people suck the lifeblood out of others. Sometimes you need to be selfish and look after yourself.
Sounds to me like a classic case of Korsakoff's Syndrome, which is a neurological impairment long-term alcoholics are at risk of.
This would explain the 'made up' stories about his life to date: he has no memory of past events and is confabulating to fill in the gaps. Also the apparent 'depression'.
Historically, patients with Korsakoff's Syndrome were institutionalised since there is almost no way back once impairment has taken hold.
KS might be what the GP suspects (but isn't telling you), and therefore won't agree to any kind of assessment which could result in a diagnosis ---> requiring subsequent care ---> and more to the point ---> PCT funding.
Mention Korsakoff's by name to the GP / A&E, and maybe they'll be 'compelled' to evaluate him?
Just get on with it, since if KS is the case, the sooner this chap gets thiamine injections, the sooner progression can be impeded.
This would explain the 'made up' stories about his life to date: he has no memory of past events and is confabulating to fill in the gaps. Also the apparent 'depression'.
Historically, patients with Korsakoff's Syndrome were institutionalised since there is almost no way back once impairment has taken hold.
KS might be what the GP suspects (but isn't telling you), and therefore won't agree to any kind of assessment which could result in a diagnosis ---> requiring subsequent care ---> and more to the point ---> PCT funding.
Mention Korsakoff's by name to the GP / A&E, and maybe they'll be 'compelled' to evaluate him?
Just get on with it, since if KS is the case, the sooner this chap gets thiamine injections, the sooner progression can be impeded.
Edited by Mobile Chicane on Friday 17th December 01:10
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Issac is right, if he is willing to go then AA will definatly help, she will be able to go in with him for support, (the rest of the group will have to agree to this but generaly will) i took my brother to my first meeting, it really opened his eyes and made him change his attitude towards the illness.as he has no family, or friends left this is the best hope, the people he will meet there are genuine and want to help and have been through it.
they will generally offer up their phone numbers and will probably offer to call "bob" to see how he is doing between meetings.
dont be too shocked by peoples "walk away attitude" alcoholics can be very destructive by nature and seem to push away all offers of help, i did, but as you say he has given indications of accepting help, AA is the best step foward for bob and i would encourage your sister to push him to go as the NHS are rubbish at this (wasted many hours with a NHS "trained" counciller) and private clinics are very expensive!! and part of their rehab is to take patients to AA meetings anyway.
wish your sister good luck, and from me thank her for her concern, its a terrible illness, but treatable.
mark
Tell your sister to walk away now. The sooner the better for her, I know. PM me if you need help.
If she is genuinely desperate- get his GP round and get him her to contact the crisis team, they will only help if he is a danger to himself. Unfortunately they are often reluctant to be involved with alcoholics.
But all I can say is for the sake of your sister, get her out of there now. TRUST ME!
If she is genuinely desperate- get his GP round and get him her to contact the crisis team, they will only help if he is a danger to himself. Unfortunately they are often reluctant to be involved with alcoholics.
But all I can say is for the sake of your sister, get her out of there now. TRUST ME!
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