Dementia and Lasting Power of Attorney
Discussion
Not sure if this is the right place, so mods please move to where it best fits....
In a nutsheel my Mum's dementia is progressing and I need to seek Lasting Power of Attorney. I'm searching the web (found some useful download stuff so far) but the basic questions for anyone that might have done this are;
1. How easy is it?
2. How long is the process likely to take?
3. Can it be done (easily) DIY or is it best to hand it over to a solicitor.
Any advice gratefully received....
TIA
In a nutsheel my Mum's dementia is progressing and I need to seek Lasting Power of Attorney. I'm searching the web (found some useful download stuff so far) but the basic questions for anyone that might have done this are;
1. How easy is it?
2. How long is the process likely to take?
3. Can it be done (easily) DIY or is it best to hand it over to a solicitor.
Any advice gratefully received....
TIA
The property stuff is a second consideration, it's the health and welfare I'm concerned about. Twice I have had to get her medication stopped but the home are only doing it due to their responsibility for best care (terminology is probably wrong). I want to know that if and when I have to do it again they will be obliged to respond.
It's nice to know that it can be done swiftly though.
It's nice to know that it can be done swiftly though.
Edited by T40ORA on Wednesday 10th November 20:15
MrTom said:
My Mum went the DIY route for attorney over her mum, gained witness statements, filled in the forms etc. If I recall it was about a month with the office of the public guardian.
Was that using the downloadable stuff? I've got it and had a look at it, but the brain is clogging up now.The fact she's diagnosed already with dementia may be a problem for you. My mother's dementia was too far down the line and we ended up getting 2 orders via the office of the public guardian, 1 of which gives me access to her funds (dwindling rapidly) and the other the right to rent out her house. It's a pain in the derriere - POA is much easier and more recognised but there is an alternative if you can't get it, as I found out.
I did the bank account stuff myself, but fortunately had a solicitor friend who signed as to my suitabilty - I recall they wanted a solicitor for that part of the guardianship - but the renting out (or selling if it came to that) had to go thru court and I had to use a solicitior (or maybe not had to but it was a lot easier to do so - I'd never have got all the paperwork required.
As I type this I remember - I needed a declaration from the geriatic consultant which was a nightmare - maybe due to the personality concerned - in that she didn't believe she should be signing this type of document on principle, so didn't!! Be warned - a very opinionated breed sometimes, consultants!! Strangly, she did play ball with the solicitor second time round but gave me months of delay when I needed the basic guardianship!!
Hopefully you can just get POA!
I did the bank account stuff myself, but fortunately had a solicitor friend who signed as to my suitabilty - I recall they wanted a solicitor for that part of the guardianship - but the renting out (or selling if it came to that) had to go thru court and I had to use a solicitior (or maybe not had to but it was a lot easier to do so - I'd never have got all the paperwork required.
As I type this I remember - I needed a declaration from the geriatic consultant which was a nightmare - maybe due to the personality concerned - in that she didn't believe she should be signing this type of document on principle, so didn't!! Be warned - a very opinionated breed sometimes, consultants!! Strangly, she did play ball with the solicitor second time round but gave me months of delay when I needed the basic guardianship!!
Hopefully you can just get POA!
Writing these is my job, so here goes:
1) There are 2 types of Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA)
a) Property & Affairs - money & money type issues
b) Health and Welfare - medical and things like where you live, who you see etc.
If you have a crash and are unconscious, your wife/ partner / kids have no power over anything unless:
a) You have LPAs (or an Advance Directive which will cover PURELY medical matters)
b) AND they have been registered with the Office of the Public Guardian (which takes at least 13 weeks and costs up to £120 per LPA depending on your income.
Lets say you had agreed to buy a new house - if you are unconscious, you can't sign the contracts, nor can anyone else unless there is a registered LPA Property & Affairs(or the old version, an Enduring Power of Attorney). But when it comes to moving YOU - then the LPA Health and Welfare is needed.
So everyone over 18 should ideally have both Lasting Powers of Attorney, as around 60% of us will lose the ability to make decisions through accident, stroke, heart attack, Alzheimers etc at some time in our lives.
If there are no LPAs in place, someone has to apply to the Court of Protection to be appointed as "Deputy" and if the family are not united, that may well be a solicitor at around £200 an hour (to pay your bills as well as doing other things which you family cannot) - perhaps £10,000 a year. If your family argue - the bills will be paid out of your assets. So appointing your own "attorneys" just in case by writing Lasting Powers of Attorney is pretty sensible.
HOW TO WRITE LASTING POWERS OF ATTORNEY
1) Download the free pack from the Office of the Public Guardian or
2) Ask a solicitor - typical cost £600 + VAT to complete the form, an extra £300 + VAT to sort out registration plus Court Fees if your individual income is over £12,000 a year.
2) Use a Professional Will Writer, many of whom specialise in LPAs - I know our own fees are a fraction of those charge by solicitors (a couple could get all 4 LPAs for the cost of one!)
Once the ability to make decisions has been lost it is too late to sort out an LPA - but many people can be OK one day and not the next, so it may still be possible - but be VERY careful, especially if the family or anyone else might feel the wrong people have been appointed at attorney.
I do hope this VERY basic guide helps.
1) There are 2 types of Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA)
a) Property & Affairs - money & money type issues
b) Health and Welfare - medical and things like where you live, who you see etc.
If you have a crash and are unconscious, your wife/ partner / kids have no power over anything unless:
a) You have LPAs (or an Advance Directive which will cover PURELY medical matters)
b) AND they have been registered with the Office of the Public Guardian (which takes at least 13 weeks and costs up to £120 per LPA depending on your income.
Lets say you had agreed to buy a new house - if you are unconscious, you can't sign the contracts, nor can anyone else unless there is a registered LPA Property & Affairs(or the old version, an Enduring Power of Attorney). But when it comes to moving YOU - then the LPA Health and Welfare is needed.
So everyone over 18 should ideally have both Lasting Powers of Attorney, as around 60% of us will lose the ability to make decisions through accident, stroke, heart attack, Alzheimers etc at some time in our lives.
If there are no LPAs in place, someone has to apply to the Court of Protection to be appointed as "Deputy" and if the family are not united, that may well be a solicitor at around £200 an hour (to pay your bills as well as doing other things which you family cannot) - perhaps £10,000 a year. If your family argue - the bills will be paid out of your assets. So appointing your own "attorneys" just in case by writing Lasting Powers of Attorney is pretty sensible.
HOW TO WRITE LASTING POWERS OF ATTORNEY
1) Download the free pack from the Office of the Public Guardian or
2) Ask a solicitor - typical cost £600 + VAT to complete the form, an extra £300 + VAT to sort out registration plus Court Fees if your individual income is over £12,000 a year.
2) Use a Professional Will Writer, many of whom specialise in LPAs - I know our own fees are a fraction of those charge by solicitors (a couple could get all 4 LPAs for the cost of one!)
Once the ability to make decisions has been lost it is too late to sort out an LPA - but many people can be OK one day and not the next, so it may still be possible - but be VERY careful, especially if the family or anyone else might feel the wrong people have been appointed at attorney.
I do hope this VERY basic guide helps.
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for this. I know that I need the two LPAs for Mum (my wife and I needing two each I hadn't considered!!)and have downloaded the templates from the OPG. I will try to go this route, as essentially when my Mum is off the bloody drugs they keep putting her on she can have very lucid days and would understand the purpose and process. I will seek advice from the OPG first.
If there is a problem though, it looks like I'll be hunting out a local Professional Will Writer.
Thank you for this. I know that I need the two LPAs for Mum (my wife and I needing two each I hadn't considered!!)and have downloaded the templates from the OPG. I will try to go this route, as essentially when my Mum is off the bloody drugs they keep putting her on she can have very lucid days and would understand the purpose and process. I will seek advice from the OPG first.
If there is a problem though, it looks like I'll be hunting out a local Professional Will Writer.
Sorry for delay. OPG have a process they follow diligently - it may be a little different cos we're in Scotland. The form itself for the bank acct was straightforward and the OPG very supportive in explianing what I could 'ignore' and what they want3d answered where - I recall an hours phone call with me scribbling notes frantically! - the difficulties came with getting the medical evidence required to say she had dementia and was not capable herself. Something as straightforward as the GP wouldn't suffice - I got their agreement no problem - there was a certain form I had to get signed which had to be done by a specialist and that's where my problems arose. Sorry to be a bit vague - it was 3 or 4 years back and I've had a course of chemo in between which has done my memory in! My post was really to advise that it can be complicated for reasons you don't expect and the advice in the post following mine is I think very good. We weren't told for example if there were odd lucid days we mighht have got POA - it was dementia = too late
HTH and good luck
HTH and good luck
Hi Stephen,
Thank you for this. I know that I need the two LPAs for Mum (my wife and I needing two each I hadn't considered!!)and have downloaded the templates from the OPG. I will try to go this route, as essentially when my Mum is off the bloody drugs they keep putting her on she can have very lucid days and would understand the purpose and process. I will seek advice from the OPG first.
If there is a problem though, it looks like I'll be hunting out a local Professional Will Writer.
Thank you for this. I know that I need the two LPAs for Mum (my wife and I needing two each I hadn't considered!!)and have downloaded the templates from the OPG. I will try to go this route, as essentially when my Mum is off the bloody drugs they keep putting her on she can have very lucid days and would understand the purpose and process. I will seek advice from the OPG first.
If there is a problem though, it looks like I'll be hunting out a local Professional Will Writer.
If you have done most of the work already, I'n sure a Society of Will Writers member would just make a modest charge for checking it through.
If you get Part A wrong, you're (as we say in the trade) screwed. You just lost £120 (or whatever lower fee you paid).
The other parts they can be a bit more lenient about, if they are in a good mood, and send you back the odd page to re-do.
Typical problem is getting the dates wrong so it looks as if the person whose LPA it is signed after someone else - so the whole thing gets thrown out, and you have to pay the registration fee again.
People regularly sign in the wrong place and forget to sign in one of the places they should have signed in!
And when you've gone through the nearly 30 pages of the LPAs, you have another 24 pages of forms to apply for registration - but that is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY easier than going through the process of applying to be appointed as a Deputy (under Court supervision) if you don't have LPAs organised before the accident, stroke, heart attack etc strikes - so don't tempt fate, get on with it!
Stephen Pett
If you get Part A wrong, you're (as we say in the trade) screwed. You just lost £120 (or whatever lower fee you paid).
The other parts they can be a bit more lenient about, if they are in a good mood, and send you back the odd page to re-do.
Typical problem is getting the dates wrong so it looks as if the person whose LPA it is signed after someone else - so the whole thing gets thrown out, and you have to pay the registration fee again.
People regularly sign in the wrong place and forget to sign in one of the places they should have signed in!
And when you've gone through the nearly 30 pages of the LPAs, you have another 24 pages of forms to apply for registration - but that is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY easier than going through the process of applying to be appointed as a Deputy (under Court supervision) if you don't have LPAs organised before the accident, stroke, heart attack etc strikes - so don't tempt fate, get on with it!
Stephen Pett
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