Question for weight lifters/strength builders
Discussion
A top rock climber talks about going for the pump, then letting it subside with lighter training and then considers it that you're ready for the real work in terms of training the body when the pump has gone. Is this really correct?
To expand, if it were weight lifting, you do some light bicep curls then some heavy ones, get the biceps pumped, rest a few minutes, do some more light ones, stretch, shake the arms out, do some more light ones, the pump should subside, then you hit the big weights. This is supposedly a good way to develop strength. Comments?
(I'll try to find proof online later on.)
To expand, if it were weight lifting, you do some light bicep curls then some heavy ones, get the biceps pumped, rest a few minutes, do some more light ones, stretch, shake the arms out, do some more light ones, the pump should subside, then you hit the big weights. This is supposedly a good way to develop strength. Comments?
(I'll try to find proof online later on.)
The weightlifting analogy you use, reads to me like a mix of hypertrophy training and strength training in the one go.
Interesting concept, but can't say I've ever used it (or in weighlifting terms, heard of it....)
ETA: Who is the top climber in question?
Interesting concept, but can't say I've ever used it (or in weighlifting terms, heard of it....)
ETA: Who is the top climber in question?
Edited by ApexJimi on Thursday 4th November 11:32
http://www.neilgresham.com/
He's big in the UK scene. His two "Masterclass" DVDs alone transformed my climbing. Considering getting some 1-to-1 coaching with him.
He's big in the UK scene. His two "Masterclass" DVDs alone transformed my climbing. Considering getting some 1-to-1 coaching with him.
Never heard of or seen anyone do or recommend this type of approach.
Usually for strength (as you asked, rather than size) the ideas usually pushed are:
moderate warm ups (which don't have to pump the muscles - this could cause some congestion that could hamper the maximal set + is working different fibre types/processes) to low rep sets, not many of and decent rest between them
maybe then lighter/drop sets to keep the reps in the desired band
or as a pump set at the end to flush blood/nutrients in and waste products out
or the possibly 'old fashioned' pyramid approach working to failure-ish on each set even though the weight is to go up and the reps down.
Also some workouts/sets with heavy weights used through limited range of the movement to help with sticking points (e.g. shoulder press through the top part of the motion to work the triceps/lock out more)
For me the best gains in strength have come from (mainly) the first but also with a twist where if I think I can get say 5 reps at weight n I might also add (or do 1st) a lower rep set at n +[/n] say 20% then find I can do more at [i]n than I would have been able to do otherwise.
For climbing though wouldn't you be after a different aspect of strength? So, not low rep max abilities but the ability to keep the strength up for a time + maybe more emphasis on static positions/holds? Might well need a different approach if so?
Usually for strength (as you asked, rather than size) the ideas usually pushed are:
moderate warm ups (which don't have to pump the muscles - this could cause some congestion that could hamper the maximal set + is working different fibre types/processes) to low rep sets, not many of and decent rest between them
maybe then lighter/drop sets to keep the reps in the desired band
or as a pump set at the end to flush blood/nutrients in and waste products out
or the possibly 'old fashioned' pyramid approach working to failure-ish on each set even though the weight is to go up and the reps down.
Also some workouts/sets with heavy weights used through limited range of the movement to help with sticking points (e.g. shoulder press through the top part of the motion to work the triceps/lock out more)
For me the best gains in strength have come from (mainly) the first but also with a twist where if I think I can get say 5 reps at weight n I might also add (or do 1st) a lower rep set at n +[/n] say 20% then find I can do more at [i]n than I would have been able to do otherwise.
For climbing though wouldn't you be after a different aspect of strength? So, not low rep max abilities but the ability to keep the strength up for a time + maybe more emphasis on static positions/holds? Might well need a different approach if so?
ShadownINja said:
Yeah, those methods sound familiar. As I hinted, it's about sustained strength ie endurance... but is this the best way?
God knows! But I wouldn't like 'him' meant God! to find out by falling off a cliff face if the training had been wrong! Sorry HTH 
Edited by Lost_BMW on Friday 5th November 12:12
Lost_BMW said:
ShadownINja said:
Yeah, those methods sound familiar. As I hinted, it's about sustained strength ie endurance... but is this the best way?
God knows! But I wouldn't like him to find out by falling off a cliff face if the training had been wrong! Sorry HTH 
Well, it seems to work for him. Or perhaps it would work better if he didn't use this method. Who knows. I wonder if there's a good way of discovering which is best.
ShadownINja said:
Lost_BMW said:
ShadownINja said:
Yeah, those methods sound familiar. As I hinted, it's about sustained strength ie endurance... but is this the best way?
God knows! But I wouldn't like 'him' meant God! to find out by falling off a cliff face if the training had been wrong! Sorry HTH Well, it seems to work for him. Or perhaps it would work better if he didn't use this method. Who knows. I wonder if there's a good way of discovering which is best.
Sort it out, LostBMW.
ApexJimi said:
Shadow - who is this top climber?
ShadownINja said:
http://www.neilgresham.com/
He's big in the UK scene. His two "Masterclass" DVDs alone transformed my climbing. Considering getting some 1-to-1 coaching with him.
He's big in the UK scene. His two "Masterclass" DVDs alone transformed my climbing. Considering getting some 1-to-1 coaching with him.
Edited by ShadownINja on Friday 5th November 12:15
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