Nursing homes?
Discussion
Anyone with any experience? I'm actually for the first time in my life having to consider this as a real route for very very close family. Any have any suggestions/tips to help me on my way in finding something suitable.
I currently have no concepts of costs, what I should be looking etc etc so any help given is much appreciated!
I currently have no concepts of costs, what I should be looking etc etc so any help given is much appreciated!
Is it a physical or mental illness? There are significantly less EMI (elderly mentally infirm) homes than regular nursing homes and our wonderful government won't pay unless there is a physical incapacity. We have been paying around £3500 per month for EMI care at an excellent place. When we started looking, some of the places were just shocking, absolute hell holes. You'll know one when you see one, believe me.
The only piece of sage advice I can really give is this: no matter how much you hate the idea, you are making the right decision.
The only piece of sage advice I can really give is this: no matter how much you hate the idea, you are making the right decision.
You will be able to read the inspection reports of nursing homes that are of interest on the CQC website http://www.cqc.org.uk/, under Find Care Services, then under Social Care.
This website may also be of some interest http://www.comparecarehomes.com/
Your local council may have leaflets about choosing a care home and what to look for and questions to ask - check out their website. Social Services may also be able to help financially, especially if funds are below a certain level, I can't remember what they are off the top of my head, but it's around £23k I think.
This website may also be of some interest http://www.comparecarehomes.com/
Your local council may have leaflets about choosing a care home and what to look for and questions to ask - check out their website. Social Services may also be able to help financially, especially if funds are below a certain level, I can't remember what they are off the top of my head, but it's around £23k I think.
My Grandmother now lives in a Nursing Home. Ok, she's in her nineties, but my mum and sister who visit her regularly both say that the home has given her a new lease of life and she is much more mentally active than she has been in years. The social interaction that the staff encourage has really helped her.
There's no doubt that some establishments are better than others. If it was my responsibility, I'd visit all the homes on the list and meet the staff, view the accomodation and get as best a feel for the place as possible. As said, dementia homes are less common, but I don't think you specified that need in your post.
ETA, I'd contact your local Adult Services Dept. If nothing else, they'll know all the homes in your area, and some outside of their 'Borough' too. They'll also be able to give you a run-down on any funding that may be available (or not). As said, I think the current threshold is £23K. In our area, the Council owned homes are some of the best...
There's no doubt that some establishments are better than others. If it was my responsibility, I'd visit all the homes on the list and meet the staff, view the accomodation and get as best a feel for the place as possible. As said, dementia homes are less common, but I don't think you specified that need in your post.
ETA, I'd contact your local Adult Services Dept. If nothing else, they'll know all the homes in your area, and some outside of their 'Borough' too. They'll also be able to give you a run-down on any funding that may be available (or not). As said, I think the current threshold is £23K. In our area, the Council owned homes are some of the best...
Edited by blackburn on Monday 21st June 22:04
First investigate all the services that are available in their own home! (lots more than most people realise). Unless your relative is in danger of hurting themselves home is the best place for them, they are familiar with their surroundings and neighbours etc.
There is an association called Care Quality Commission www.cqc.org.uk which provides info on all sorts of services available including homes. The local council also should have lists of all the locally registered homes.
Nice and shiney is not always best. Look at a few. Many are parts of bigger chains. Look for somewhere where they encourage people to be independent, have activities that encourage them to use their brains and their legs (if that is possible).
Most admit that they cannot compete with their own home but some do their best.
Visit a couple of times at different times of the day (without appointment) if you feel unwelcome or uncomfortable then don't go near.
Also remember that there are people in these homes with allsorts of problems and some of them are REALLY difficult!
I have found the best plan is to be very visible by visiting frequently and at differing times, getting to know all the staff helps.
There is also a difference between Residential Care and Nursing Care. Dependant on their needs.
You also need to know that if your relative has more than £22k savings they have to pay ALL of their own fees. If they are medically requiring Nursing Care you can get help with that part of the fees.
Local to me (North West)standard (no frills)nursing homes cost aroung £600 per week. Privately the skys the limit. But expect at least £3500 per month.
The quality seems to depend on the staff. A lot of care staff change their job frequently which is awful for the elderly as they get no continuity of care.
Hope this helps.
Ellie
There is an association called Care Quality Commission www.cqc.org.uk which provides info on all sorts of services available including homes. The local council also should have lists of all the locally registered homes.
Nice and shiney is not always best. Look at a few. Many are parts of bigger chains. Look for somewhere where they encourage people to be independent, have activities that encourage them to use their brains and their legs (if that is possible).
Most admit that they cannot compete with their own home but some do their best.
Visit a couple of times at different times of the day (without appointment) if you feel unwelcome or uncomfortable then don't go near.
Also remember that there are people in these homes with allsorts of problems and some of them are REALLY difficult!
I have found the best plan is to be very visible by visiting frequently and at differing times, getting to know all the staff helps.
There is also a difference between Residential Care and Nursing Care. Dependant on their needs.
You also need to know that if your relative has more than £22k savings they have to pay ALL of their own fees. If they are medically requiring Nursing Care you can get help with that part of the fees.
Local to me (North West)standard (no frills)nursing homes cost aroung £600 per week. Privately the skys the limit. But expect at least £3500 per month.
The quality seems to depend on the staff. A lot of care staff change their job frequently which is awful for the elderly as they get no continuity of care.
Hope this helps.
Ellie
My Mother is in a private place that is very good in terms of care, food etc but the average age of the residents is very high and most of the residents are not really with it, whereas my Mum is fully compos mentis. It's £370/wk!
We looked at everything else in her area, but the better places have long waiting lists, and if somewhere tells you they have vacancies then it's usually pretty obvious why as soon as you arrive. I suppose higher prices might limit demand though - there's nothing in her area within a country mile of the prices mentioned here.
We looked at everything else in her area, but the better places have long waiting lists, and if somewhere tells you they have vacancies then it's usually pretty obvious why as soon as you arrive. I suppose higher prices might limit demand though - there's nothing in her area within a country mile of the prices mentioned here.
Food for thought! Thanks for the replies!
To give a bit more information, my father has a rare condition which means he requires physical care 24/7. Due to the nature of the condition although he can understand what your saying, his speech is very slurred & he requires assistance in absolutley every task.
Unfortunately my poor mum can't cope any more & although we have occasional outside help, it's left her a broken woman & his behaviour (Despite his condition) is bordering on plain spiteful considering everything she's done.
We currently own our home, but aside from insurance he took out when he was younger & the highest level of incapacity benefit he also receives, they our are only income twinned with what I bring in.
I'll do a bit more research about what I can dig up, the costs are exceptionally higher than I expected so will have to give it some real thought as in order to fund this, realistically we would have to sell our current home & the family as it is would have to be split up to make this actually feasible to do but to be fair, it's do this or risk losing our amazing mother.
To give a bit more information, my father has a rare condition which means he requires physical care 24/7. Due to the nature of the condition although he can understand what your saying, his speech is very slurred & he requires assistance in absolutley every task.
Unfortunately my poor mum can't cope any more & although we have occasional outside help, it's left her a broken woman & his behaviour (Despite his condition) is bordering on plain spiteful considering everything she's done.
We currently own our home, but aside from insurance he took out when he was younger & the highest level of incapacity benefit he also receives, they our are only income twinned with what I bring in.
I'll do a bit more research about what I can dig up, the costs are exceptionally higher than I expected so will have to give it some real thought as in order to fund this, realistically we would have to sell our current home & the family as it is would have to be split up to make this actually feasible to do but to be fair, it's do this or risk losing our amazing mother.
Ding said:
First investigate all the services that are available in their own home! (lots more than most people realise). Unless your relative is in danger of hurting themselves home is the best place for them, they are familiar with their surroundings and neighbours etc.
There is an association called Care Quality Commission www.cqc.org.uk which provides info on all sorts of services available including homes. The local council also should have lists of all the locally registered homes.
Nice and shiney is not always best. Look at a few. Many are parts of bigger chains. Look for somewhere where they encourage people to be independent, have activities that encourage them to use their brains and their legs (if that is possible).
Most admit that they cannot compete with their own home but some do their best.
Visit a couple of times at different times of the day (without appointment) if you feel unwelcome or uncomfortable then don't go near.
Also remember that there are people in these homes with allsorts of problems and some of them are REALLY difficult!
I have found the best plan is to be very visible by visiting frequently and at differing times, getting to know all the staff helps.
There is also a difference between Residential Care and Nursing Care. Dependant on their needs.
You also need to know that if your relative has more than £22k savings they have to pay ALL of their own fees. If they are medically requiring Nursing Care you can get help with that part of the fees.
Local to me (North West)standard (no frills)nursing homes cost aroung £600 per week. Privately the skys the limit. But expect at least £3500 per month.
The quality seems to depend on the staff. A lot of care staff change their job frequently which is awful for the elderly as they get no continuity of care.
Hope this helps.
Ellie
I'd suggest that 'home' is not always best, if, for instance, someone has recently lost a long term partner and is struggling to adjust. If a Care Manager / Social Worker is involved, I'd imagine that a full risk assessment would be carried out as well as an overview assessment to ascertain an individuals risk at home.There is an association called Care Quality Commission www.cqc.org.uk which provides info on all sorts of services available including homes. The local council also should have lists of all the locally registered homes.
Nice and shiney is not always best. Look at a few. Many are parts of bigger chains. Look for somewhere where they encourage people to be independent, have activities that encourage them to use their brains and their legs (if that is possible).
Most admit that they cannot compete with their own home but some do their best.
Visit a couple of times at different times of the day (without appointment) if you feel unwelcome or uncomfortable then don't go near.
Also remember that there are people in these homes with allsorts of problems and some of them are REALLY difficult!
I have found the best plan is to be very visible by visiting frequently and at differing times, getting to know all the staff helps.
There is also a difference between Residential Care and Nursing Care. Dependant on their needs.
You also need to know that if your relative has more than £22k savings they have to pay ALL of their own fees. If they are medically requiring Nursing Care you can get help with that part of the fees.
Local to me (North West)standard (no frills)nursing homes cost aroung £600 per week. Privately the skys the limit. But expect at least £3500 per month.
The quality seems to depend on the staff. A lot of care staff change their job frequently which is awful for the elderly as they get no continuity of care.
Hope this helps.
Ellie
Agreed re the staff - it's them that make a home what it is (or isn't).
ironictwist said:
Food for thought! Thanks for the replies!
To give a bit more information, my father has a rare condition which means he requires physical care 24/7. Due to the nature of the condition although he can understand what your saying, his speech is very slurred & he requires assistance in absolutley every task.
Have a look at NHS Continuing Care, but it's *very* difficult to get, as the NHS has to fund it rather than the Local Authority: (Alzheimers isn't significant, it was just the first link that came up):To give a bit more information, my father has a rare condition which means he requires physical care 24/7. Due to the nature of the condition although he can understand what your saying, his speech is very slurred & he requires assistance in absolutley every task.
http://alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_in...
I continue to find the figures banded around quite staggering. £3,500 per month? £900 per week? I'd very much like to know what areas we are talking about here. Of course this will be privately funded, the problem being when you require assistance from your local authority. You will very quickly find that they will not fund at anything like those levels for general nursing or residential care, or even for EMI care. I think, sadly, you are being capitalised upon.
My qualifications for this? I own one, (family business). Our local authority currently funds circa £470 per week for nursing care and circa £395 per week for residential care. If I choose to, I could ask far more than this for 'private' clients. This is not a policy we choose to adopt, because we feel it totally unfair that a private person should pay more than a local authority funded placement is funded at. That said, asking for these figures and actually getting them are two very different propositions. Perhaps it is a function of the area, but the huge figures being spoken of are truly unrealistic.
There is quite a lot I can educate you about, although it would probably be easier to speak with you than for me to key it all in here. PM me for my number, if you wish.
Look for places that have no 'aroma'; there truly is no excuse for a care home to smell. Turn up without an appointment, because I don't know a single self-respecting owner / manager that would turn you away. Don't be afraid to go back more than once and at different times of the day / week. You will become very expert, very quickly and please do not think for one minute that one of the so called £900 per week homes is better than a £400 per week home. It's simply not the case and you do not always get what you pay for; a view that I have a very large body of evidence to support.
Despite what many will undoubtedly tell you, there are large numbers of us who are passionate about what we do and who provide a service that we are very proud of. Unfortunately though, our sector often gets a good bashing in the press and we're seen as the vultures who are making all the money. Although this is fair comment in some cases, nothing could be further from the truth in others and the figures, when broken down, would shock you if we are talking about the vast majority of homes who are doing things properly. What I would say is don't listen to the hype; go and look with an open mind and you'll soon spot the ones who genuinely care and weed out the ones who don't.
Hope it helps!
My qualifications for this? I own one, (family business). Our local authority currently funds circa £470 per week for nursing care and circa £395 per week for residential care. If I choose to, I could ask far more than this for 'private' clients. This is not a policy we choose to adopt, because we feel it totally unfair that a private person should pay more than a local authority funded placement is funded at. That said, asking for these figures and actually getting them are two very different propositions. Perhaps it is a function of the area, but the huge figures being spoken of are truly unrealistic.
There is quite a lot I can educate you about, although it would probably be easier to speak with you than for me to key it all in here. PM me for my number, if you wish.
Look for places that have no 'aroma'; there truly is no excuse for a care home to smell. Turn up without an appointment, because I don't know a single self-respecting owner / manager that would turn you away. Don't be afraid to go back more than once and at different times of the day / week. You will become very expert, very quickly and please do not think for one minute that one of the so called £900 per week homes is better than a £400 per week home. It's simply not the case and you do not always get what you pay for; a view that I have a very large body of evidence to support.
Despite what many will undoubtedly tell you, there are large numbers of us who are passionate about what we do and who provide a service that we are very proud of. Unfortunately though, our sector often gets a good bashing in the press and we're seen as the vultures who are making all the money. Although this is fair comment in some cases, nothing could be further from the truth in others and the figures, when broken down, would shock you if we are talking about the vast majority of homes who are doing things properly. What I would say is don't listen to the hype; go and look with an open mind and you'll soon spot the ones who genuinely care and weed out the ones who don't.
Hope it helps!
Edited by oliverjthomas on Monday 21st June 23:28
I have very mixed views on care homes, be they nursing or residential.
My ex MIL was a nurse, and managed a nursing home. It pains me to say it about her, but of all the homes I have visited across the county (and given my job, that's a LOT of homes) it was easily the best.
It is 100% dependent on the staff - not qualifications, but attitude, and I have honestly found that in almost every case, the privately run homes (BUPA etc) are far worse than any of the council run places. Don't think that by paying way over the odds you'll get better care for your dad - it doesn't work like that.
Cleanliness is a problem. Most homes smell of piss and boiled cabbage. You may laugh, but they do. The good ones don't.
If you have chance, one of the best ways to gauge it would be to grab an ambulance crew outside your nearest A&E and ask their opinion... Nobody better placed to see the inside workings
My ex MIL was a nurse, and managed a nursing home. It pains me to say it about her, but of all the homes I have visited across the county (and given my job, that's a LOT of homes) it was easily the best.
It is 100% dependent on the staff - not qualifications, but attitude, and I have honestly found that in almost every case, the privately run homes (BUPA etc) are far worse than any of the council run places. Don't think that by paying way over the odds you'll get better care for your dad - it doesn't work like that.
Cleanliness is a problem. Most homes smell of piss and boiled cabbage. You may laugh, but they do. The good ones don't.
If you have chance, one of the best ways to gauge it would be to grab an ambulance crew outside your nearest A&E and ask their opinion... Nobody better placed to see the inside workings
oliverjthomas said:
Our local authority currently funds circa £470 per week for nursing care and circa £395 per week for residential care. If I choose to, I could ask far more than this for 'private' clients. This is not a policy we choose to adopt, because we feel it totally unfair that a private person should pay more than a local authority funded placement is funded at.
My Mum is self funding (we were astonished to find how much money she had stashed away, but that's another story). I asked for a social worker assessment just to get her on their radar, and the guy assigned was almost totally useless. However one point he did make is that if you go through the Local Authority into a home then you pay the LA contracted rate even if you're self-funding. Not every home accepts this arrangement, but many do.Deva Link said:
oliverjthomas said:
Our local authority currently funds circa £470 per week for nursing care and circa £395 per week for residential care. If I choose to, I could ask far more than this for 'private' clients. This is not a policy we choose to adopt, because we feel it totally unfair that a private person should pay more than a local authority funded placement is funded at.
My Mum is self funding (we were astonished to find how much money she had stashed away, but that's another story). I asked for a social worker assessment just to get her on their radar, and the guy assigned was almost totally useless. However one point he did make is that if you go through the Local Authority into a home then you pay the LA contracted rate even if you're self-funding. Not every home accepts this arrangement, but many do.Anyway, I digress. You have a Social Worker who is pretty useless? Ask for someone else and then if they are useless, someone else again. There are some brilliant Social Workers out there, but unfortunately there are plenty of idiots as well. You just need to find a good one. On the fee side, you're in a sad position. You'll be paying, so the game is now to make sure you aren't paying over the odds in relation to what SS will fund. If it was up to me, you wouldn't be paying anything; the system is totally stupid, unfair and badly designed. Sadly, elderly care isn't really a vote winner, so we tend to lose out to children / younger disabled / etc.
Go and look at the places in your area and make decisions on where you think is good. Remember, big is not always best, money doesn't buy you great care and there are varying qualities out there. You will learn very quickly what 'feels' right. My personal opinion is take no notice of CQC inspection reports; that is an entirely different discussion, but I'll line an awful lot of people up who will agree; both residents, relatives, staff and owners.
If you're happy to divulge, what area are you looking in? Someone might be able to give some good input.
parapaul said:
I have very mixed views on care homes, be they nursing or residential.
My ex MIL was a nurse, and managed a nursing home. It pains me to say it about her, but of all the homes I have visited across the county (and given my job, that's a LOT of homes) it was easily the best.
It is 100% dependent on the staff - not qualifications, but attitude, and I have honestly found that in almost every case, the privately run homes (BUPA etc) are far worse than any of the council run places. Don't think that by paying way over the odds you'll get better care for your dad - it doesn't work like that.
Cleanliness is a problem. Most homes smell of piss and boiled cabbage. You may laugh, but they do. The good ones don't.
If you have chance, one of the best ways to gauge it would be to grab an ambulance crew outside your nearest A&E and ask their opinion... Nobody better placed to see the inside workings
I agree with virtually all of that, save for the council homes bit. Be wary not to lump all us 'privates' in together; there's council, there's corporate, (Bupa, Four Seasons, groups of five or six homes under common ownership but with absentee landlords) and then there's the rest of us, who own one home and work it every day. There's a lot of us out there, some bad, but many that are fantastic.My ex MIL was a nurse, and managed a nursing home. It pains me to say it about her, but of all the homes I have visited across the county (and given my job, that's a LOT of homes) it was easily the best.
It is 100% dependent on the staff - not qualifications, but attitude, and I have honestly found that in almost every case, the privately run homes (BUPA etc) are far worse than any of the council run places. Don't think that by paying way over the odds you'll get better care for your dad - it doesn't work like that.
Cleanliness is a problem. Most homes smell of piss and boiled cabbage. You may laugh, but they do. The good ones don't.
If you have chance, one of the best ways to gauge it would be to grab an ambulance crew outside your nearest A&E and ask their opinion... Nobody better placed to see the inside workings
The councils run on a totally different basis than the private sector. In my town, the council pays £210 per week more to itself for places in council homes than it will pay to us in the private sector for the exact sam category of care. Their justification? They have overheads! If I earned per week what the council homes do, I'd be able to do some pretty fantastic things in terms of staff, etc.
Good call on the ambulance crew tip though; them and funeral directors, ironically!
oliverjthomas said:
You have a Social Worker who is pretty useless? Ask for someone else and then if they are useless, someone else again. There are some brilliant Social Workers out there, but unfortunately there are plenty of idiots as well. You just need to find a good one. On the fee side, you're in a sad position. You'll be paying, so the game is now to make sure you aren't paying over the odds in relation to what SS will fund.
Thanks, I realise that this is thread hijacking, but maybe the comments are useful.If Mum is self funding then I don't really see the point of the social worker's involvment. We asked for the assessment in the first place when it looked like she might be able tpo saty at home, but that quickly became impossible.
She's in a place which is a bargain price and has the most marvellous staff. Its only snags are that most of the other residents (only 15 in total) are three sheets to the wind and it doesn't have much in the way of grounds, although Mum can't walk anyway.
I have mixed feelings about self funding. There's obviously an unfairness about it, but in a perverse way it's almost amusing to see the money that she's collected together in a Scrooge like fashion being hosed away. I'm also reacting to my 2 SIL's, who are both absolutely mortified to find out how much money she has and are raging at the unfairness of it in the knowledge that they probably won't be able to get their grubby mitts on the dosh.
Just checked your profile to see where you are,unfortunately i am ambulance crew in Edinburgh so of no use to you,but if anyone approached me to ask what you require,i'd have no hesitation in speaking to them,on a purely personal basis i find the local authority homes have more caring staff in general.
That's not to say there are not well run private homes,although here they do seem to have a lot more foreign staff,whether that's a good or bad thing depends on your individual thoughts.
That's not to say there are not well run private homes,although here they do seem to have a lot more foreign staff,whether that's a good or bad thing depends on your individual thoughts.
oliverjthomas said:
I continue to find the figures banded around quite staggering. £3,500 per month? £900 per week? I'd very much like to know what areas we are talking about here. Of course this will be privately funded, the problem being when you require assistance from your local authority. You will very quickly find that they will not fund at anything like those levels for general nursing or residential care, or even for EMI care. I think, sadly, you are being capitalised upon.
but the huge figures being spoken of are truly unrealistic.
As you say many of the local authority homes are excellent. Unfortunately in our area (Stockport)but the huge figures being spoken of are truly unrealistic.
Edited by oliverjthomas on Monday 21st June 23:28
there are very few and the funded beds in the private homes are over subscribed and the prices are close to the private ones! astounding I know. Therefore the decision was made to go private as the 'extras' seemed worth the relatively small amount of extra money. I agree that we are being exploited, but I nursed her at home for several years and both physically and emotionally could not carry on.
Oh and to the poster who picked up on the 'home is best' comment I meant that being able to stay in their own home for as long as it is ok is the best, not that at all costs keep them at home. My Great Aunt was lucky to have a supportive family and enough money to pay for people to come in and help her for about 3 years after others would have had to go in a home.
Some of the residents I have come across have blossomed once in a care home as they have no worries about being left alone and they have company around them.
Unfortunately, my great aunt has had a very difficult transition as she has always been a very independant person and hates asking for help, in fact she avoids telling the staff things that she should!
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