Don't slip a disc - a tale of woe
Discussion
Five years ago (in April), I climbed into a motohome I was testing for a magagzine. The next day, I climbed Mont St Michel, carrying my Nikon outfit. Within hours, I seriously thought I'd dislocated my right hip.
I got back home to York and went to the hospital. One MRI scan later, I was diagnosed with a slipped (prolapsed)disc at L5/S1. Being a freelancer, I had to keep working and at one stage, was using my camera tripod as a crutch. I got some painkilling (Ibuprofen) and saw the physioterrorist. She took my having to drive a van across Holland to Germany for a work commission as a matter of choice, i.e. if he can do this, he's OK. It bloody well hurt.
Thereafter, to cut a long story short, I had...
An epidural nerve block - useless.
Three dorsal root ganglion injections - the pain level dropped by about 30% for 3 months.
A microdiscectomy/laminectomy - the disc re-slipped within hours. The physio even had my hips X-rayed because my joint mobility is so limited. Only minor wear and tear showed.
A second op - the disc couldn't be reached for scar tissue so the surgeon took away more bone to relieve pressure on the sciatic nerve.
A three-level dorsal root ganglion injection - useless this time.
Acupuncture - waste of time and effort.
At this stage, I'm running out of options. I can't take powerful painkilling, and have had two episodes of cardiac arrhythmia, the one last boxing night leading to an emergency ambulance ride to hospital in Lancaster. A later 24-hour ecg with a Holter monitor showed ectopics - uncomfortable but not malignant.
The next stage, pain managment having done all they can, is a spinal cord stimulator. this is a kind of internal TENS device. An electrode goes in temporarily at the level of T10 (thoracic vertebra 10) and a belt-mounted generator inputs electric impulses that fool the brain - pain *should* become a mild parasthesia, or numbness. If it works, then it's time for a general anaesthetic and implantation of an internal generator and electrodes. This can be charged, switched and programmed from outside.
So, for anyone thinking of slipping a disc, here's what happens...
The outer ring (annulus) of the disc between two vertebrae splits and the jelly-like interior material (nucleus pulposus)protrudes - that's a prolapse.
The prolapse leans on your sciatic nerve (in my case, right side). The material physically crushes and abrades the nerve and it can cause inflammation chemically.
The sciatic nerve (either side) is the body's biggest nerve. When damaged, abraded and/or poisoned, it lets you know about it big style. The numbness and pain run from the lumbar spine, down the leg and into the outside part of the foot. At worst, imagine the nerve as being made of red hot barbed wire with a heavy current passing down it. And there's the feeling of a blowlamp being played up and down the calf. At best, it's a three-foot toothache.
Even worse news (though I've been lucky so far) is the possibility of cauda equina syndrome. The Cauda Equina (literally horse's tail) is a bundle of nerves at the base of the spine. If this is compromised, bladder and bowel control can go.
So, take care of your back...the membership cost of the slipped disc club is far too high.
I got back home to York and went to the hospital. One MRI scan later, I was diagnosed with a slipped (prolapsed)disc at L5/S1. Being a freelancer, I had to keep working and at one stage, was using my camera tripod as a crutch. I got some painkilling (Ibuprofen) and saw the physioterrorist. She took my having to drive a van across Holland to Germany for a work commission as a matter of choice, i.e. if he can do this, he's OK. It bloody well hurt.
Thereafter, to cut a long story short, I had...
An epidural nerve block - useless.
Three dorsal root ganglion injections - the pain level dropped by about 30% for 3 months.
A microdiscectomy/laminectomy - the disc re-slipped within hours. The physio even had my hips X-rayed because my joint mobility is so limited. Only minor wear and tear showed.
A second op - the disc couldn't be reached for scar tissue so the surgeon took away more bone to relieve pressure on the sciatic nerve.
A three-level dorsal root ganglion injection - useless this time.
Acupuncture - waste of time and effort.
At this stage, I'm running out of options. I can't take powerful painkilling, and have had two episodes of cardiac arrhythmia, the one last boxing night leading to an emergency ambulance ride to hospital in Lancaster. A later 24-hour ecg with a Holter monitor showed ectopics - uncomfortable but not malignant.
The next stage, pain managment having done all they can, is a spinal cord stimulator. this is a kind of internal TENS device. An electrode goes in temporarily at the level of T10 (thoracic vertebra 10) and a belt-mounted generator inputs electric impulses that fool the brain - pain *should* become a mild parasthesia, or numbness. If it works, then it's time for a general anaesthetic and implantation of an internal generator and electrodes. This can be charged, switched and programmed from outside.
So, for anyone thinking of slipping a disc, here's what happens...
The outer ring (annulus) of the disc between two vertebrae splits and the jelly-like interior material (nucleus pulposus)protrudes - that's a prolapse.
The prolapse leans on your sciatic nerve (in my case, right side). The material physically crushes and abrades the nerve and it can cause inflammation chemically.
The sciatic nerve (either side) is the body's biggest nerve. When damaged, abraded and/or poisoned, it lets you know about it big style. The numbness and pain run from the lumbar spine, down the leg and into the outside part of the foot. At worst, imagine the nerve as being made of red hot barbed wire with a heavy current passing down it. And there's the feeling of a blowlamp being played up and down the calf. At best, it's a three-foot toothache.
Even worse news (though I've been lucky so far) is the possibility of cauda equina syndrome. The Cauda Equina (literally horse's tail) is a bundle of nerves at the base of the spine. If this is compromised, bladder and bowel control can go.
So, take care of your back...the membership cost of the slipped disc club is far too high.
Edited by davhill on Friday 16th April 21:20
wow OP. My old man had an issue with a disk in the lumbar region. 2 years of dihydrocodeine, physio etc, he tried everything.
i know this sounds mad, but 2 sessions of accupuncture, and the pain reduced loads - his muscles were spasming to protect the spine, which in turn was forcing the calcified bits to shove together. He rarely has any bother at all now.
It took 2 years for him to try accupuncture, as he's a traditional bloke, and thought it was quackery. If it relied at all on the placebo effect, it'd have failed (he was so anti even trying it). Now, he'd probably reccomend it to anyone.
Your ailment appears to be much more severe than his - but it might be worth a shot.
i know this sounds mad, but 2 sessions of accupuncture, and the pain reduced loads - his muscles were spasming to protect the spine, which in turn was forcing the calcified bits to shove together. He rarely has any bother at all now.
It took 2 years for him to try accupuncture, as he's a traditional bloke, and thought it was quackery. If it relied at all on the placebo effect, it'd have failed (he was so anti even trying it). Now, he'd probably reccomend it to anyone.
Your ailment appears to be much more severe than his - but it might be worth a shot.
Thanks, Graham E.
Sorry mate, been there, done it. I had three sessions of acupuncture over the Christmas/New Year period. I was (and am) willing to try anything but this didn't work at all.
As I understand it, some of us scar internally more than others after an operation. The surgeon had to dissect out a lot of scar tissue during the second op (3 hours total). I believe the problem is now mechanical - the pressure was relieved on my sciatic nerve but scar tissue has accumulated, causing still more pressure.
Sorry mate, been there, done it. I had three sessions of acupuncture over the Christmas/New Year period. I was (and am) willing to try anything but this didn't work at all.
As I understand it, some of us scar internally more than others after an operation. The surgeon had to dissect out a lot of scar tissue during the second op (3 hours total). I believe the problem is now mechanical - the pressure was relieved on my sciatic nerve but scar tissue has accumulated, causing still more pressure.
mybrainhurts said:
This happened to my wife...
It led to a hand-sized blister on my arse...
It's a long story...
Well I have a long night shift ahead so spill, sounds interesting.It led to a hand-sized blister on my arse...
It's a long story...
OP: I wish you all the best and a speedy recovery, have a similar problem but good physio and time have helped so I can now get about without much pain. I had a lovely (not) side affect also of having incredibly sensitive b***s which was novel.
Is there any way they could detach the nerve endings or something like that? Or would this only create problems or remove functions/feelings etc?
Thanks SFMXKR, for the good wishes.
Take a look at an anatomy diagram and you'd see the 'wiring' down there. The surgeon (Beth) kept asking if I was having any numbness or erection problems - luckily, no tackle trouble. That, or even wheelchair-type paralysis is a risk of spinal surgery. This is one reason why you have to sign the consent. IE, if we kill you or break you during your op, you won't hold it against us.
I suppose enthusiastic physio input could tweak a nerve and alter feelings - v. unlikely to permanently modify feeling or function though.
Take a look at an anatomy diagram and you'd see the 'wiring' down there. The surgeon (Beth) kept asking if I was having any numbness or erection problems - luckily, no tackle trouble. That, or even wheelchair-type paralysis is a risk of spinal surgery. This is one reason why you have to sign the consent. IE, if we kill you or break you during your op, you won't hold it against us.
I suppose enthusiastic physio input could tweak a nerve and alter feelings - v. unlikely to permanently modify feeling or function though.
davhill said:
I suppose enthusiastic physio input could tweak a nerve and alter feelings - v. unlikely to permanently modify feeling or function though.
I knew straight away something wasnt right in my neck, I've been in a few accidents, and normally the pain doesnt start for a while. After 2 days of pain I visited the A&E dept as i was in alot of pain by this point. The triage desk refered me to the duty GP, who asked what happened and just said 'That'll be whiplash then' She gave me a leaflet on what to do and I was turned loose.
Another few weeks pass and still nothing, so went to my GP who said it was probably the whiplash still. I wasnt convinced, having had whiplash after been hit from behind at ~30MPH. So i decided to see a private physio. I had a slight compression of 2 vertabrae in my neck around C4/5 which was nipping a nerve. Other things i was experiencing were when lifting anything over 1.5kg with my right arm i suffered a 'static shock' type sensation. Pins and needles all over my body were a common occurence, as well as random twitches and twinges.
Over roughly 15 weeks (2x 30min sessions a week) i was stretched, massaged, pulled and pushed into shape. It was extremely painful at times, and had a strict regieme of stretches to do. Posture and sleeping position mattered. At my worse I couldnt drive, walk very far, or use my right arm for anything. I would strongly recomend going to a GOOD physio with experience in the field. It won't come straight away, and you will feel alot worse before it gets better, it will all be worth it. Good luck!
Thanks, Riddler,
I discussed further treatment with Lewis, the physio. I'd had the pushes and pulls from him, plus a home regime and, of course, the acupuncture.
The snag is that everything is painful...standing, sitting, walking, you name it. Lewis tested my joint flexion and it's very limited, Forcing the joints further is, quite simply, agonising and it's impossible to remove the pain with either oral or injected drugs.
I appreciate your advice. I hope that, if I get a spinal cord stimulator and if it works, I should then be able to move freely again. This would let me make up the ground lost through favouring my right side for nearly five years.
Incidentally, I saw a copy of the referral request to the SCS consultant at the GP's today. It was dated 26th Feb so I'm keeping an eye on the post.
I discussed further treatment with Lewis, the physio. I'd had the pushes and pulls from him, plus a home regime and, of course, the acupuncture.
The snag is that everything is painful...standing, sitting, walking, you name it. Lewis tested my joint flexion and it's very limited, Forcing the joints further is, quite simply, agonising and it's impossible to remove the pain with either oral or injected drugs.
I appreciate your advice. I hope that, if I get a spinal cord stimulator and if it works, I should then be able to move freely again. This would let me make up the ground lost through favouring my right side for nearly five years.
Incidentally, I saw a copy of the referral request to the SCS consultant at the GP's today. It was dated 26th Feb so I'm keeping an eye on the post.
I had micro dysectomy 10 years ago l5/s1, didn't help, eventually had joint and facet joint injections, which do work for a while but only mask the problem.
I'm back at the hospital again(actually never being away from the consultants for the last 10 years)and i have to makea decision as to have two joints fused or carry on with the injection, its a tough choice to make as every op i've ever had has never worked out correctly.
I was even comtemplating having the x-stop, after searching the net but never took it any futher as not over 50 http://www.xstop.com/
I'm back at the hospital again(actually never being away from the consultants for the last 10 years)and i have to makea decision as to have two joints fused or carry on with the injection, its a tough choice to make as every op i've ever had has never worked out correctly.
I was even comtemplating having the x-stop, after searching the net but never took it any futher as not over 50 http://www.xstop.com/
Edited by 69 coupe on Monday 8th March 22:24
Hi, 69 Coupe,
Same level of slip as me - welcome to the club!
I looked at the X-STOP too ( I am over 50). As I understood it, the theory is sound and it'd work fine, provided there's no osteoporosis, or bone crumbling. However, I understood it won't work at the S1/L5 level because the spinous processes (your stegosaurus plates) are too small at that joint. There's be little for the item's 'jacking up' action to work upon.
I don't need a fusion myself, as my disc, though it's duff spacing and flexibility-wise, remains stable. That, said, I'd have one immediately if it was indicated. Sure, it passes the strain to higher discs but if the two vertebrae can't move in relation to one another, nothing can be trapped and no abrasion can happen.
I say this, having had nerve block injections myself. Hope you find a solution soon.
Same level of slip as me - welcome to the club!
I looked at the X-STOP too ( I am over 50). As I understood it, the theory is sound and it'd work fine, provided there's no osteoporosis, or bone crumbling. However, I understood it won't work at the S1/L5 level because the spinous processes (your stegosaurus plates) are too small at that joint. There's be little for the item's 'jacking up' action to work upon.
I don't need a fusion myself, as my disc, though it's duff spacing and flexibility-wise, remains stable. That, said, I'd have one immediately if it was indicated. Sure, it passes the strain to higher discs but if the two vertebrae can't move in relation to one another, nothing can be trapped and no abrasion can happen.
I say this, having had nerve block injections myself. Hope you find a solution soon.
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