Want to join TA and need to get fit(ter)

[Nuclearsquash]

Evening,

I'm seriously considering joining the TA, but as a requirement of that i want to get my fitness up to a level where i'm not just scraping by. I'm currently going to the gym about 2-3 times a week (for about the past 2 months), as well as a weekly session of Taekwondo.

As it stands the push ups and sit ups element i can do pretty easily (30 in two minutes for both), although i would like to improve upper body and stomach strength; my main issue is the running, at the moment i can just about do the 1.5 miles in 15 minutes, but ideally i'd like to get this down to around 13-12 minutes, also i need to be able to be able to do 3 miles in 30 minutes. As it is i've never been much of a long distance runner, i've always been a sprinter.

So any advice etc would be greatly welcomed.
Cheers

Andy

[stefd]

I'm in the TA and typically I do sit-ups and press-ups as soon as I get out of bed in the morning. As many as I can until it simply hurts too much to do another. I also run 3 mornings a week - I picked a route that took about 30 mins the first time I did it and then simply tried to beat my last time on every subsequent outing.

The number of sit-ups and press-ups you quoted are just enough to be eligible to join I think. Once you're in you'll need to complete a yearly personal fitness test which consists of (in order):

2 minutes of press-ups (44 minimum)
2 minutes of sit-ups with someone holding your feet (50 miniumum)
0.5 mile paced warm-up run then 1.5 miles in under 11.30 (or 10.30 if you're infantry)

This is for males under 30 - you get extra allowance for being female or over 30.

Having said that, the army is still desperate for recruits so you'll probably get in whatever your fitness level and the current funding crisis means that you'll likely only have to attempt the PFT to pass the year (that's the rumour anyway). There will be lots of pressure to pass though and the PTIs won't make it fun if you're not fit enough so there's a large incentive to do it properly.

Edit - I just wanted to add that you should be able to do the above even if you're only vaguely fit. It's possile you're simply not pushing yourself hard enough. The run for instance is only 11 mins and not that long that you can't just do it - it might feel like your heart is going to explode but it's only 11 mins so just do it...that's how most soldiers manage it.

Edited by stefd on Sunday 7th March 20:40

[Nuclearsquash]

Excellent, some actual useful information.

I'm just about to hit 31, to be honest i've never really pushed myself, but then i guess it's slightly different with a PTI shouting in your ear, as well as the whole group/team element.

As i said situps and pushups are fine, we do plenty of those in Taekwondo of various types. So i shall make a point of working on my running. Oddly i find running outside far easier than on a treadmill, as i can find my comfortable running pace far easier.

Thanks for the tips

Andy

[K87]

Most runners will probably agree with you abouyt the treadmill thing. I certainly do, can quite easily run constantly of rabout 2 hours without feeling too strained, regularly do interval training etc but get on a treadmill and I struggle to stay on for 10 minutes!

Just build up slowly with the running. Aim for just 30 minutes of running 1st, then start planning your distances, if by the time you reach 30 minutes your not at 3 miles then 3 miles would be your next target.

[Nuclearsquash]

I was at the gym this morning so i thought i'd see how far i could run in 30 minutes, and although on a treadmill, i managed 3 miles in 28mins 21sec. Was rather pleased with that, i also made a point of not concetrating on the time, and just running, which seemed to work.

[E21_Ross]

stefd said:

I'm in the TA and typically I do sit-ups and press-ups as soon as I get out of bed in the morning. As many as I can until it simply hurts too much to do another.

please, please, please don't do this!!! this is not good for your lower back! sit ups are inherently not great for the spine as they create a lot of compressive loads, but first thing in the morning the discs are more watery than they are during the day. doing something like that greatly increases your chance of disc herniation. you should wait a good hour or so before doing that.

OP - regards to running, just start off by trying to build up your endurance before you even start thinking about speed stuff really. just try to clock in the miles. i would suggest doing 2-3 times a week to start with just nice and easy, only 10-15mins if that's all you can do. eventually just keep upping the time before you start increasing the speed. i would say try and get to about 45 minutes and then start upping the intensity. like the last few minutes just up the pace a bit. make sure you warm down (in my personal opinion, on a purely steady run, a warm up is close to pointless, because it's only steady anyway) and do plenty of stretches AFTERWARDS. don't do too many static stretches before.

Edited by E21_Ross on Monday 8th March 17:53

[okgo]

stefd said:

I'm in the TA and typically I do sit-ups and press-ups as soon as I get out of bed in the morning. As many as I can until it simply hurts too much to do another. I also run 3 mornings a week - I picked a route that took about 30 mins the first time I did it and then simply tried to beat my last time on every subsequent outing.

The number of sit-ups and press-ups you quoted are just enough to be eligible to join I think. Once you're in you'll need to complete a yearly personal fitness test which consists of (in order):

2 minutes of press-ups (44 minimum)
2 minutes of sit-ups with someone holding your feet (50 miniumum)
0.5 mile paced warm-up run then 1.5 miles in under 11.30 (or 10.30 if you're infantry)

[/footnote]

Suprising to be fair those are the exact requirements almost as you need to be able to get to to get into the Marines. You sure they are right?

[996 sps]

The marines you need 5 overgrasp heaves 50 crunch sit ups to a timing, 1.5 mile as a squad with boots within 15 mins, combat trousers and t-shirt then best effort back 1.5 mile, you need under 10min 30secs.

The Army used to do the same test but with best effort heaves, dips, incline sit ups, jump test, then 1.5 mile run with boots then best effort back.

There is a shed load to be tested on now the above are basic fitness assessments, to the OP if you can run without problems for 40 minutes and above then get yourself to a track and get some speed training in, get some hill reps in etc no treadmill outside.

1.5 mile run is best effort no endurance factor make yourself sick if poss!!!!!

[okgo]

996 sps said:

The marines you need 5 overgrasp heaves 50 crunch sit ups to a timing, 1.5 mile as a squad with boots within 15 mins, combat trousers and t-shirt then best effort back 1.5 mile, you need under 10min 30secs.

The Army used to do the same test but with best effort heaves, dips, incline sit ups, jump test, then 1.5 mile run with boots then best effort back.

There is a shed load to be tested on now the above are basic fitness assessments, to the OP if you can run without problems for 40 minutes and above then get yourself to a track and get some speed training in, get some hill reps in etc no treadmill outside.

1.5 mile run is best effort no endurance factor make yourself sick if poss!!!!!

Those figures are close but I don't think right. My housemate is currently training to get in.

[Taita]

They are also the bare, bare minimums, you will be far and away last if you only do them for the Marines.

Where is the country are you, and what unit are you aiming for in TA? Infantry?

Get running until your 1.5 mile is around 10mins, then do interval training.

[996 sps]

Yep bare minimum in fact your allowed 11.30 for best effort booted run but stats have shown personnel will not pass the course if they are not 10 min 30 or under, as I said earlier 1.5 mile run best effort make yourself sick.

[okgo]

Before you even go booted and what not in devon you now have to do a treadmill test

1.5 miles in under 12.30 @ 2 incline

60 seconds rest

1.5 miles in under 10.30 best effort same incline.

[stefd]

okgo said:

stefd said:

I'm in the TA and typically I do sit-ups and press-ups as soon as I get out of bed in the morning. As many as I can until it simply hurts too much to do another. I also run 3 mornings a week - I picked a route that took about 30 mins the first time I did it and then simply tried to beat my last time on every subsequent outing.

The number of sit-ups and press-ups you quoted are just enough to be eligible to join I think. Once you're in you'll need to complete a yearly personal fitness test which consists of (in order):

2 minutes of press-ups (44 minimum)
2 minutes of sit-ups with someone holding your feet (50 miniumum)
0.5 mile paced warm-up run then 1.5 miles in under 11.30 (or 10.30 if you're infantry)

Suprising to be fair those are the exact requirements almost as you need to be able to get to to get into the Marines. You sure they are right?

100% sure. I didn't read it on the net or anything, I've done it enough times to know it.

[stefd]

E21_Ross said:

stefd said:

I'm in the TA and typically I do sit-ups and press-ups as soon as I get out of bed in the morning. As many as I can until it simply hurts too much to do another.

please, please, please don't do this!!! this is not good for your lower back! sit ups are inherently not great for the spine as they create a lot of compressive loads, but first thing in the morning the discs are more watery than they are during the day. doing something like that greatly increases your chance of disc herniation. you should wait a good hour or so before doing that.

Edited by E21_Ross on Monday 8th March 17:53

Thanks for the tip, I never considered my back might be weaker in the morning (makes sense though). No damage after several years of doing this.

To be fair, though, the army does far harsher things to your back than a few sit-ups in the morning!

[Taita]

stefd said:

okgo said:

stefd said:

I'm in the TA and typically I do sit-ups and press-ups as soon as I get out of bed in the morning. As many as I can until it simply hurts too much to do another. I also run 3 mornings a week - I picked a route that took about 30 mins the first time I did it and then simply tried to beat my last time on every subsequent outing.

The number of sit-ups and press-ups you quoted are just enough to be eligible to join I think. Once you're in you'll need to complete a yearly personal fitness test which consists of (in order):

2 minutes of press-ups (44 minimum)
2 minutes of sit-ups with someone holding your feet (50 miniumum)
0.5 mile paced warm-up run then 1.5 miles in under 11.30 (or 10.30 if you're infantry)

Suprising to be fair those are the exact requirements almost as you need to be able to get to to get into the Marines. You sure they are right?

100% sure. I didn't read it on the net or anything, I've done it enough times to know it.

He is definitely right. Again, the minimums.

[996 sps]

Yep I would nt worry about a few sit ups in the morning yep your intervertebral discs contain fluid which hydrates overnight but its mainly flexion with rotation which causes problems. Try not to bother with a treadmill test okay as a supplement also you dont need to run in boots at all especially in Devon.

[E21_Ross]

stefd said:

E21_Ross said:

stefd said:

I'm in the TA and typically I do sit-ups and press-ups as soon as I get out of bed in the morning. As many as I can until it simply hurts too much to do another.

please, please, please don't do this!!! this is not good for your lower back! sit ups are inherently not great for the spine as they create a lot of compressive loads, but first thing in the morning the discs are more watery than they are during the day. doing something like that greatly increases your chance of disc herniation. you should wait a good hour or so before doing that.

Edited by E21_Ross on Monday 8th March 17:53

Thanks for the tip, I never considered my back might be weaker in the morning (makes sense though). No damage after several years of doing this.

To be fair, though, the army does far harsher things to your back than a few sit-ups in the morning!

i can't comment on other things they do, since i don't know what it is, but sit ups cause a lot of compressive forces on the spine (lumbar region in particular). for your long term health i would really suggest not to do this first thing in the morning. contrary to belief too, latest evidence also shows doing sit ups with your legs bent serves no purpose at all, as it doesn't reduce any loading. i'm not saying don't do sit ups just make sure you do them properly and not first thing in the morning

cheers, and keep fit

996 sps said:

Yep I would nt worry about a few sit ups in the morning yep your intervertebral discs contain fluid which hydrates overnight but its mainly flexion with rotation.....

due to the natural curve of the lumbar region (a lordotic curve) flexion causes a lot of stress on mainly the anterior (front) part of the IV disc. this is why consistently flexing is quite bad. however, if you do sit ups properly and don't fully flex the spine (i.e. don't go all the way to your knees) then it reduces the risk (of many things, like herniation for example) greatly. however, as said, first thing in the morning raises this risk more.

you'd be amazed how much rotation force the IV disc can sustain, i have the amounts somewhere in a paper i read a while ago but it's buried away somewhere

Edited by E21_Ross on Wednesday 10th March 21:37

[996 sps]

The main reason the weaker aspect of the spine is the posterior column is due to the posterior longitudinal ligament its much harrower and weaker than the Anterior ligament, its dentidenticulate shape means no cover on the postlateral corners of the disc hence flexion rotation not good, as for flexion if you come up only 30 degrees and feet not held then no problems with Illospoas pulling on transverse processes, that aside i d still get some sit ups cracked out early doors.

[E21_Ross]

996 sps said:

The main reason the weaker aspect of the spine is the posterior column is due to the posterior longitudinal ligament its much harrower and weaker than the Anterior ligament, its dentidenticulate shape means no cover on the postlateral corners of the disc hence flexion rotation not good, as for flexion if you come up only 30 degrees and feet not held then no problems with Illospoas pulling on transverse processes, that aside i d still get some sit ups cracked out early doors.

yes, which is why i said not to flex much, and under flexion the anterior part of the motion segment is under more stress. nothing i said was wrong. you don't need to try and confuse me, i've gone through all the stuff you've mentioned before, except "dentidenticulate", which even the world of google doesn't show up i think you mean posterolateral too, not postlateral i don't think it's good advice to say to do sit ups until you can't physically do any more literally the first thing you do after getting out of bed. not just my opinion, but it's been advised by one of the best spinal biomechanics researcher out there, McGill.

Edited by E21_Ross on Wednesday 10th March 22:26

[996 sps]

E21_Ross said:

996 sps said:

The main reason the weaker aspect of the spine is the posterior column is due to the posterior longitudinal ligament its much harrower and weaker than the Anterior ligament, its dentidenticulate shape means no cover on the postlateral corners of the disc hence flexion rotation not good, as for flexion if you come up only 30 degrees and feet not held then no problems with Illospoas pulling on transverse processes, that aside i d still get some sit ups cracked out early doors.

yes, which is why i said not to flex much, and under flexion the anterior part of the motion segment is under more stress. nothing i said was wrong. you don't need to try and confuse me, i've gone through all the stuff you've mentioned before, except "dentidenticulate", which even the world of google doesn't show up i think you mean posterolateral too, not postlateral i don't think it's good advice to say to do sit ups until you can't physically do any more literally the first thing you do after getting out of bed. not just my opinion, but it's been advised by one of the best spinal biomechanics researcher out there, McGill.

Edited by E21_Ross on Wednesday 10th March 22:26

I m on my phone so post lat was just an abbreviation as bit of a drama typing on a Nokia such long comments/replies ref the other googled word its just a descriptive word to say the post ligament is exposing the discs more than the anterior ligament, again typo due to phone but not trying to confuse your comments to add not telling anyone to do as many sit ups as they can in the morning especially if they have a spinal problem but what I will say is if he is joining a Company which will possibly make him complete physical training at very possibly the crack of bloody dawn then I would suggest that what McGill said or says does not really matter as he wont be up at half 5 being fitness tested.