Is 'mental health' grounds for NHS funding?

Is 'mental health' grounds for NHS funding?

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Simpo Two

Original Poster:

87,026 posts

272 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2010
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Very briefly - person is 88, almost blind, can't walk unaided and has dementia. However there are no medical problems that require nursing care such as changing dressings.

She's currently in a residential home and classed as only needing Social Care - ie help with bathing, eating etc) - and as such has to pay full whack for it.

I heard somewhere that mental health (dementia, plus she gets very lonely and depressed) might be classed as a medical issue - ie the NHS might pay for her care. Are there any experts on this tricky subject please?


sawman

4,963 posts

237 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2010
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not an expert, but I would imagine that as long as she has no issues that require medical care she would probably need to be sectioned (detained under the mental health act) to be admitted to a psychiatric hosp' which would be free(at point of contact) but since maggie thatchers Care in the Community program, there are significantly fewer mental health in patient facilities these days - they are most housing estates now!




Simpo Two

Original Poster:

87,026 posts

272 months

Tuesday 23rd February 2010
quotequote all
sawman said:
not an expert, but I would imagine that as long as she has no issues that require medical care she would probably need to be sectioned (detained under the mental health act) to be admitted to a psychiatric hosp' which would be free(at point of contact) but since maggie thatchers Care in the Community program, there are significantly fewer mental health in patient facilities these days - they are most housing estates now!
It's not mental as in 'dangerous loony', only as in 'goldfish memory, can't work a TV remote, can't remember anything after 1938, thinks there are two of me, doesn't know where she is or what day/year it is'.

On the political front, if Gordon Brown hadn't pissed so much money away on lost causes he could afford to look after this country's old people wink

artywiz

117 posts

236 months

Thursday 25th February 2010
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Hi there

the funding is called continuing care and at the moment the criteria is quite tight, if there is no 'challenging' behaviour ie agression and she doesn't need specialised care then it's unlikely that she would be eligible.

Have a chat with whoever is the District nurse that deals with the home as it would be him/her that applied for it, they should (although not guaranteed) know what the local criteria is.

Hope that helps

Simpo Two

Original Poster:

87,026 posts

272 months

Thursday 25th February 2010
quotequote all
artywiz said:
the funding is called continuing care and at the moment the criteria is quite tight, if there is no 'challenging' behaviour ie agression and she doesn't need specialised care then it's unlikely that she would be eligible.

Have a chat with whoever is the District nurse that deals with the home as it would be him/her that applied for it, they should (although not guaranteed) know what the local criteria is.
Hi Liz,

Many thanks for that smile

She's not aggressive but can be difficult to handle because she doesn't suffer fools gladly, and can get grumpy and depressed. I've got a load of stuff from the Alzheimer's Society who mentioned 'Care Domains'. These are criteria, about a dozen, which can be assessed individually and then I gather some kind of 'score' is produced. If you know of any precedent where mental condition has qualified for continuing care then it all helps!

Twit

2,908 posts

271 months

Thursday 25th February 2010
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I know a bit about this...

First thing is speak to the clinicians that deal with the person in question first, mainly to see if they know what the local criteria is. As has been said this would fall under continuing care and the criterias are normally very tight, though there can be an element of local control. Following those discussions go direct to the local PCT and speak to one of the continuing care leads there, go via the local PALS group if you have too, they will at least know who to speak to.

As has been said I think its very unlikely that the person will qualify, my grand mother was in the same position and she never qualified for anything.

Simpo Two

Original Poster:

87,026 posts

272 months

Thursday 25th February 2010
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Thanks Twit (hope you dont being called a twit!) - looks like I've got some work to do next week frown

mph1977

12,467 posts

175 months

Sunday 9th May 2010
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Simpo Two said:
artywiz said:
the funding is called continuing care and at the moment the criteria is quite tight, if there is no 'challenging' behaviour ie agression and she doesn't need specialised care then it's unlikely that she would be eligible.

Have a chat with whoever is the District nurse that deals with the home as it would be him/her that applied for it, they should (although not guaranteed) know what the local criteria is.
Hi Liz,

Many thanks for that smile

She's not aggressive but can be difficult to handle because she doesn't suffer fools gladly, and can get grumpy and depressed. I've got a load of stuff from the Alzheimer's Society who mentioned 'Care Domains'. These are criteria, about a dozen, which can be assessed individually and then I gather some kind of 'score' is produced. If you know of any precedent where mental condition has qualified for continuing care then it all helps!
the card domains are iirc

behaviour,
cognition,
psychological and emotional needs,
communication,
mobility,
nutrition,
continence,
skin,
breathing,
medications and
altered states of consciousness

the criteria to qualify are quite tight and the kind of patients who qualify are generally highly dependent , i.e. a C4/C5 tetraplegic might get it ...


Simpo Two

Original Poster:

87,026 posts

272 months

Sunday 9th May 2010
quotequote all
Thanks MPH. Well we did the test - in fact I have to say it was very fair and the NHS PCT staff who did it were very efficient and understood all the issues. As you probably know the categories are scored A, B and C, with A being the most serious. She got A:0, B:3, C:8 - ie not enough. I could make a case for 0:5:6 or even 1:5:5 but I think even that would be way short so I don't plan to appeal. We can of course ask for a reassessment in the future.

mph1977

12,467 posts

175 months

Monday 10th May 2010
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
Thanks MPH. Well we did the test - in fact I have to say it was very fair and the NHS PCT staff who did it were very efficient and understood all the issues. As you probably know the categories are scored A, B and C, with A being the most serious. She got A:0, B:3, C:8 - ie not enough. I could make a case for 0:5:6 or even 1:5:5 but I think even that would be way short so I don't plan to appeal. We can of course ask for a reassessment in the future.
yep, this is the kind of thing which often shows up - you can have complex needs but unless they are in the starred Bs or As or multiple As you reach a dead end fairly quickly ... the system is constructed to fund those who in the past might have stayed in hospital for a long time ...

as I said from my experience, even high neurological level tetraplegics struggle to get fully funded CHC

E21_Ross

35,697 posts

219 months

Monday 10th May 2010
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well, dementia was taught briefly in our mental health module....smile