What should I aim for?

[pbirkett]

Right, I've never quite got this exercise lark, but I think I am starting to come to conclusions about what I want / can achieve from exercise, but how?

Whenever I see a thread on here about gym routines, it usually comes with a bunch of other suggestions, and generally, they all seem to have the same aims.

I think I've started a thread in a sort of similar vein to this, but the topic this time is quite different.

First off, I'm 5'10", moderate build, about 89 kg / 14 st (ish). I'm very far from being shredded, am probably pretty fat, but not obese or anything. I've been this way for a while now.

However, usually with these plans are advice about protein, creatine, and other supplements, as well as a day to day diet of chicken, tuna, chicken, tuna, oh and chicken and tuna... and no booze.

I've got to be honest with you... I'm happy to eat lots of meat, LOVE it. However, sticking to some of the diets I see given out WRT weight loss and / or bodybuilding ain't gonna happen. I enjoy food too much. To give an idea of how much / what I eat, yesterday consisted of:-

• **********************************

Breakfast - Large bowl of cornflakes with semi skimmed milk + sugar, 250ml glass pure orange juice

Snack - Banana

Lunch - Mince + Dumpling

• * GYM ***

PWO food - Chicken breast + wing + baguette + margarine + ketchup

Snack: Apple, yoghurt

Dinner: Rump steak, Mash potato, Vegetables

• **********************************

This diet will not change. I do have a sweet tooth as well, and try not to as often as possible, but will occasionally (as in 2 - 3 times per week) indulge in chocolate or a cake.

And then there's my appetite for booze. I'm afraid I do have a fairly "hectic" social life, especially on weekends, and yes I do drink a fair amount over the weekend, and occasionally also, during the week.

To be honest, I don't want this to turn into a thread about the demons of drink. I already know that (a) it's not good for you and (b) has hundreds of calories in it. I know this, but this will not change either.

Yes I lack willpower - but I also really enjoy eating nice food and drinking lots of nice wine, cider and beer. Thats why I won't / can't change. I'm too set in my ways I'm afraid.

Now, on to the exercice. This is important, because what I aim for probably depends on the rest of my lifestyle. I'm now 30 years old. Never been athletic, probably never will be either - my genes didn't grace me with a natural athletic body (mesomoprh), more of a fat, pie-eaters body (endomorph).

Now given what I eat and drink, and the regularity at which I am going to do it, being lean and ripped simply isn't going to happen in a million years.

However, I suspect I might be pretty decent at putting muscle on, so perhaps a body building regime that aims at getting "big" is possibly the best way I can exercise, see any kind of (physical) results, and is more realistic given my diet. I could live with being well built albeit not lean.

The other side of me thinks that perhaps I should make more of an effort to do cardio more than weightlifting as it's allegedly better for overall health - however, I often find it more boring than weights, especially steady state cardio. Also if I neglected or dropped weights to do cardio, again given my diet, I am sure I'd end up "skinny fat" which is a look I definitely would not like to have.

So the penultimate question of the thread is... given everything, what should I be doing? Or am I really just pissing in the wind considering my diet? I persist with it at the moment because I think there must be SOME benefit to exercise even if you aren't mega skinny or have a great diet?

My personal thoughts are to concentrate on the weights, but maybe try and throw in some cardio at least in the form of a walk a few times a week and maybe the odd session in the gym when I have time / can face doing it. And with the weights, my thinking is 5x5 compound exercises as heavy as I can lift?

(Sorry for the long thread).

[Herbie58]

Without changes to that diet and mixture of cardio alongside the weights you mention the only thing you'll develop are some broader shoulders and arms to sit on top of your developing pot belly

[bales]

You can eat what you want (within reason) aslong as you do enough cardio or actual proper exercise rather than just weights.

I think if you continue as you are and just do heavy weights you will just end up big and bulky but with no definition really.

If you find cardio boring try and find something you don't find boring, can you not get involved in any sports? 5 a side footy is very good, badminton, squash anything like that would be great for your actual fitness levels and not as boring as just running/cycling.

Getting fit would be the first priority imo.

[Ginger goblin]

st in = st out.

You can do all the gym work you want but without giving your body the high quality fuel it needs to develop nothing will happen. If you continue then you're destined to be a very frustrated chubster.

[pbirkett]

I would add cardio if it would help.

One plan I had was to do compound weights twice a week, and then do as much cardio as possible. Even if its just walking etc. I suppose I do find it quite boring, but its tolerable, I'll just stick my walkman on.

The other plan was just to hammer the weights as heavy, eat and drink as I am, and hopefully get big.

Perhaps the first option is better? Perhaps I might just be pissing in the wind anyway?

I'd be happy enough just to have an average build and bodyfat level. I have no interest in living like an athlete. If I slaved away at the gym 6 days of the week, and ate nothing other than rabbit food, chicken and protein shakes, it'd all feel like too much of a punishment, IYSWIM.

[okgo]

Bulk - then cut.

not a difficult thing to grasp really, eat big, lift big, rest big etc and you will get bigger, you will put on fat too.

Then when you are happy with your size, go on a cutting diet for a little while or do more cardio to reveal the muscles

[ShadownINja]

Just do more cardio to burn the excess fuel intake. I'm eating all the time plus 3 meals a day but am probably thin to most people because of the amount of exercise (and sports) I do. I have a cousin who is 2 years younger than me and about 10 years ago we were the same size but because he doesn't do exercise and we're both getting older, the weight is really showing on him so I guess that is what I'd look like if I stopped moving. *grabs a packet of crisps and a Bakewell slice*

[GT03ROB]

It's not what you want to hear but I honestly feel that you are just consuming too many calories. Can you not look at ways to reduce the consumption, unless you do something there, you will need to spend half your life pushing weights to make a difference.

[pbirkett]

okgo said:

Bulk - then cut.

not a difficult thing to grasp really, eat big, lift big, rest big etc and you will get bigger, you will put on fat too.

Then when you are happy with your size, go on a cutting diet for a little while or do more cardio to reveal the muscles

Is that really wise when technically I'm 2.5 stone overweight already? I'd find it hard enough to lose it now, never mind if I got even bigger!

[Silver993tt]

Everyone seems to talk about calories but not about nutition which is far more important. I can't really see any fibre intake in that diet or enough fruit & vegetables. You need to cut out all of the white bread & pasta in any form and substitute it with wholemeal bread & pasta. You need to cut out the refined stuff such as cornflakes & sugar in the morning. Better off with some quality muesli fortified with bran. Red meat once a week is enough from a health perspective.

Edited by Silver993tt on Wednesday 20th January 16:03

[okgo]

pbirkett said:

okgo said:

Bulk - then cut.

not a difficult thing to grasp really, eat big, lift big, rest big etc and you will get bigger, you will put on fat too.

Then when you are happy with your size, go on a cutting diet for a little while or do more cardio to reveal the muscles

Is that really wise when technically I'm 2.5 stone overweight already? I'd find it hard enough to lose it now, never mind if I got even bigger!

If you are doing the workouts heavy enough and in the right way, and getting rest etc AND eating qaulity protein rich foods, whilst not binging on fatty st (you can't have it both ways mate, fact) then you will build muscle, and probably cut a bit of fat at the same time if you are that fat now.

Contrary to some of the above, going hard in the weight room burns carlories, the bigger your muscles get the more they burn, its all fairly straight forward I think when you think about it..

Do a bit of cardio though, otherwise you will be unfit, and won't be able to go as hard on the weights without getting out of breath.

I can sqaut 150 kg fairly well at the minute, so when I am cycling I am burning more cals than the guy who does no weights because my larger muscles are burnning more fuel. Like a larger engine would in a car..

[pbirkett]

Silver993tt said:

Everyone seems to talk about calories but not about nutition which is far more important. I can't really see any fibre intake in that diet or enough fruit & vegetables. You need to cut out all of the white bread & pasta in any form and substitute it with wholemeal bread & pasta. You need to cut out the refined stuff such as cornflakes & sugar in the morning. Better off with some quality muesli fortified with bran. Red meat once a week is enough from a health perspective.

I see what you're saying, but... generally if having bread I'll stick to brown, don't eat much pasta anyway, eat steaks once or twice a week. Muesli?

This is what I mean, if I don't enjoy it I won't stick to it. I do appreciate what you're saying, but I'm being realistic about what I'm likely to do!

okgo said:

Do a bit of cardio though, otherwise you will be unfit, and won't be able to go as hard on the weights without getting out of breath.

I can sqaut 150 kg fairly well at the minute, so when I am cycling I am burning more cals than the guy who does no weights because my larger muscles are burnning more fuel. Like a larger engine would in a car..

OK thats fair enough. I'll obviously have to do some cardio for health if nothing else. I've read that HIIT is a lot better for overall fitness, and will help build muscle to but SS cardio burns more fat and calories and requires less recovery time... but which to do?

[LordGrover]

pbirkett said:

So the penultimate question of the thread is... given everything, what should I be doing?

Get some good health insurance.

I'm not sure what you expect - you appear to ask a genuine question about improving your health and fitness but in the next breath say you're not going to change.

You clearly know you're eating too much poor quality food and don't want to exercise. You may be lucky and live to a reasonable age without serious issues, but your chances are slimmer than if you were to change your diet and lifestyle.

I was over forty when I asked the same questions but knew some things had to change.

pre-forty: no breakfast, maybe a pasty/pie/sandwich lunchtime and take away for tea. Couple of pints at lunchtime, one or two pints on the way home. After dinner out for a drink, maybe three or four pints except weekends when it was more. So... I was drinking 6-8 pints a day, every day without even getting tipsy and was getting a bit more than portly.

I know now that better choices, smaller portions and much lower alcohol intake combined with regular exercise is the ONLY way do anything useful about it. As you probably do.

I'm no saint (though I may sound rather sanctimonious here) but I can tell you here: unless you change what you do, nothing will change. Doing the same thing expecting a different outcome is just foolish. Garbage in - garbage out. Etc.

[/sermon]

[okgo]

OP.

One of the things I find hardest is the diet, they say that its almost 50/50 (training vs diet) in terms of getting results, so that means you coudl eat st ALL the time and still get nowhere going to the gym 5 times a week. you would just get fat and be injured all the time.

I would reccomend adding protein shakes into the mix, purley because they give you a nice dose of quality protein and easier to have first thing in the morning than a chicken breast, and also contain very little fat.

[pbirkett]

LordGrover said:

pbirkett said:

So the penultimate question of the thread is... given everything, what should I be doing?

Get some good health insurance.

I'm not sure what you expect - you appear to ask a genuine question about improving your health and fitness but in the next breath say you're not going to change.

You clearly know you're eating too much poor quality food and don't want to exercise. You may be lucky and live to a reasonable age without serious issues, but your chances are slimmer than if you were to change your diet and lifestyle.

I was over forty when I asked the same questions but knew some things had to change.

pre-forty: no breakfast, maybe a pasty/pie/sandwich lunchtime and take away for tea. Couple of pints at lunchtime, one or two pints on the way home. After dinner out for a drink, maybe three or four pints except weekends when it was more. So... I was drinking 6-8 pints a day, every day without even getting tipsy and was getting a bit more than portly.

I know now that better choices, smaller portions and much lower alcohol intake combined with regular exercise is the ONLY way do anything useful about it. As you probably do.

I'm no saint (though I may sound rather sanctimonious here) but I can tell you here: unless you change what you do, nothing will change. Doing the same thing expecting a different outcome is just foolish. Garbage in - garbage out. Etc.

[/sermon]

Thats just it though, I don't think my food is the problem. I don't think I eat too much crap. I generally eat similar to most people. I get my "5-a-day" and usually a bit more.

I'm just confused at what, and how much I am supposed to eat.

I look at the usual diets touted for athletes and body builders, and I'm sure they are healthy, but they look SERIOUSLY boring and lacking variety in many cases. I'm happy to be proved wrong, though.

I can and will take on board hints about my diet, but all I'm saying is I'm not prepared to go on a really strict, regimented diet that I'll fail to keep to. Its not productive, and its a waste of time.

The booze thing, I don't drink every night, but I do fair cane it at weekends. Can't see this changing really. I enjoy my social life too much. If I'm bored with life, I may as well be dead anyway.

So perhaps I am fast-tracking my way to an early grave, but unlike many of my colleagues, I don't eat fried food every day, or mcdonalds, or pizzas. Often just hearty english food through the week, with maybe a mexican or an italian at the weekend.

[pbirkett]

okgo said:

OP.

One of the things I find hardest is the diet, they say that its almost 50/50 (training vs diet) in terms of getting results, so that means you coudl eat st ALL the time and still get nowhere going to the gym 5 times a week. you would just get fat and be injured all the time.

I would reccomend adding protein shakes into the mix, purley because they give you a nice dose of quality protein and easier to have first thing in the morning than a chicken breast, and also contain very little fat.

This is why I still think I am pissing the wind.

It makes me feel like packing it in, because it seems to me like I either throw everything behind the effort to get fit, at the sacrifice of eating food I like or having a few beers a few times a week, or I may as well not bother. Is there a middle ground? I'm starting to think not...

I'm not keen on protein shakes because of the expense. When i was taking them, it was costing me circa £50 a month, money is a little tight at the mo...

[okgo]

Fair enough.

its cheaper than having a can of tuna each time though

You can get some cheap supplements on the web so have a look.

There is a middle ground, but if you ever want the cut look you will need to make changes. Either that or be in the gym burning it off every day. But most peopel cba with that including me.

[pbirkett]

okgo said:

Fair enough.

its cheaper than having a can of tuna each time though

You can get some cheap supplements on the web so have a look.

There is a middle ground, but if you ever want the cut look you will need to make changes. Either that or be in the gym burning it off every day. But most peopel cba with that including me.

I suppose when you look at it like that... but then again, I used to do that and I still felt hungry, so while I understand what it does for the body, it didn't satisfy the hunger, so its just extra expense, IYSWIM

I can't be arsed with the cut look either, far too much effort. I just want to look and feel decent. If I could just remove a bit of flab from the midsection and make my arms, shoulders and legs more muscular, then I'd be more than happy with that result!

[LordGrover]

pbirkett said:

Breakfast - Large bowl of cornflakes with semi skimmed milk + sugar, 250ml glass pure orange juice

Better: ANY whole-grain cereal without sugar. Less juice.
Best: Porridge (no sugar) and a few egg whites, scrambled, boiled, whatever - not fried. Homemade smoothie.

pbirkett said:

Snack - Banana

Better: add a few nuts or fat-free yoghurt - anything to add a little protein.
Best: Fish/chicken, brown rice/sweet potato & fibrous carb.

pbirkett said:

Lunch - Mince + Dumpling

Just junk!
Better: As snack above

pbirkett said:

PWO food - Chicken breast + wing + baguette + margarine + ketchup

Better: Lose the baguette, ketchup and pref margarine. Replace with wholewheat pitta
Best: As snack above OR MRP/protein shake

pbirkett said:

Snack: Apple, yoghurt

Not too bad.

pbirkett said:

Dinner: Rump steak, Mash potato, Vegetables

Steak is fine once a week, mash without butter.



Make sure oily fish is included a few times a week and ensure you drink enough water - the basics.
Every meal ought to contain a good source of lean protein, a starchy carb (brown rice, sweet potato, etc) and fibrous carbs (green leafy veg, root veg, etc.).

Larger portions earlier in the day, getting smaller to the end of the day, reducing the carbs in the same way.

Probably missed something important, but that's the basics as I see it.

Don't forget the exercise.

[anonymous-user]

I've lost about a stone in weight, possibly more (never weigh myself but gone down 2 notches on the belt) but more importantly replaced fat with muscle and toned up considerably in the last 2 months purely from doing 2 things: 1) eating healthy and 2) going to gym 3/4/5 days a week. A personal trainer has helped too!! I'm 46 so it's a pretty considerable feat!!

If you are not willing to put the same effort into sorting out your diet as you are into your exercise you might as well go to the pub and enjoy yourself.

Although you say you're diet seems OK - it is not. As has been pointed out cut out carbs like bread, potato etc and seriously reduce your alcohol intake. I stopped all alcohol for about a month and now enjoy wine at weekends only (I was drinking most days before). The wine tastes so much better when it's more of a treat as opposed to a daily thing.