Gaining muscle Vs Fat fight.
Discussion
45yrs. 5'10" 105kilos, never excercised.
I want to lose 4 stone. I am about to start a diet of 2000 cals for the first 2 months, then dropping to 1750 cals there after.
Would I be better off doing Weights + Aerobics + Diet? or just Diet + aerobics to start with?
The reason I ask is, I am told that you cannot do a wieght loss diet and build muscle at the same time? Any opinions?
I want to lose 4 stone. I am about to start a diet of 2000 cals for the first 2 months, then dropping to 1750 cals there after.
Would I be better off doing Weights + Aerobics + Diet? or just Diet + aerobics to start with?
The reason I ask is, I am told that you cannot do a wieght loss diet and build muscle at the same time? Any opinions?
I`m a similar age/height and 2 years ago I was nearly 15 stone. Cut out eating snacks, choc, cakes etc. Joined a gym, went virtually every night for 12 months. Did mainly cardio ~ running, riding and rowing for an hour, did weights when I was too knackered to run. Lost 2 and a half stone.
I hate the gym work and found it bloody hard to get off my arse and go. I was so determined to lose the weight though I persevered and after a couple of months it did become less painful and surprisingly addictive.
My weight has stabilised now at between 12 and a half and 13 stone, I still go to the gym 2 or 3 times a week to keep things ticking over. TBH I am bloody proud of myself and I will never put the weight back on.
Good luck with your quest.
I hate the gym work and found it bloody hard to get off my arse and go. I was so determined to lose the weight though I persevered and after a couple of months it did become less painful and surprisingly addictive.
My weight has stabilised now at between 12 and a half and 13 stone, I still go to the gym 2 or 3 times a week to keep things ticking over. TBH I am bloody proud of myself and I will never put the weight back on.
Good luck with your quest.
To build muscle mass you need to take in more than your 'baseline' or maintenance calorie intake.
To reduce your body mass, (in your case body fat), you must create a calorie deficit whereby you burn more calories during the day than you consume, causing your body to eat into (no pun intended) it's stored reserves. It is very difficult to drop bodyfat and increase muscle mass for this reason.
However, if you have never trained with weights before then you'll find that you will tone up and develop some muscularity - simply because you haven't worked those muscles to that extent before.
As far as your goals I'd suggest the following:
1) Aim for 0.75 to 1 gramme of protein per pound of bodyweight per day.
2) Aim for double this in carbs.
3) Aim for half this in fats.
4) Go for unrefined and natural foods wherever possible. The more processed your food is, the less use it is.
5) Split this between 3 reasonable meals and 3 snacks - little and often will increase your metabolism.
6) Never skip breakfast - this kickstarts your metabolism for the day.
7) It's fine to do some weights, but make sure you have someone show you how to do each exercise properly - and start light! There's nothing more frustrating than being injured...
8) Aim to lose between 1 and 2 lbs per week. Any more than this and you're losing weight too fast.
HTH,
Animal
PS - Forgot to add: cardio gets really, really boring. I was dropping bodyfat this summer and I was walking on a bloody treadmill for an hour each morning before breakfast. Plod, plod, plod! Weights will give you variety.
To reduce your body mass, (in your case body fat), you must create a calorie deficit whereby you burn more calories during the day than you consume, causing your body to eat into (no pun intended) it's stored reserves. It is very difficult to drop bodyfat and increase muscle mass for this reason.
However, if you have never trained with weights before then you'll find that you will tone up and develop some muscularity - simply because you haven't worked those muscles to that extent before.
As far as your goals I'd suggest the following:
1) Aim for 0.75 to 1 gramme of protein per pound of bodyweight per day.
2) Aim for double this in carbs.
3) Aim for half this in fats.
4) Go for unrefined and natural foods wherever possible. The more processed your food is, the less use it is.
5) Split this between 3 reasonable meals and 3 snacks - little and often will increase your metabolism.
6) Never skip breakfast - this kickstarts your metabolism for the day.
7) It's fine to do some weights, but make sure you have someone show you how to do each exercise properly - and start light! There's nothing more frustrating than being injured...
8) Aim to lose between 1 and 2 lbs per week. Any more than this and you're losing weight too fast.
HTH,
Animal
PS - Forgot to add: cardio gets really, really boring. I was dropping bodyfat this summer and I was walking on a bloody treadmill for an hour each morning before breakfast. Plod, plod, plod! Weights will give you variety.
Edited by Animal on Sunday 27th December 19:47
whythem said:
The reason I ask is, I am told that you cannot do a wieght loss diet and build muscle at the same time? Any opinions?
Sounds like b
ks, TBH.If you are overweight you can do a great deal just by improving your diet alone. Common sense gets you a long way- ditch beer, biscuits, cakes, deep fried food, and breakfast cereals and eat/drink something more healthy instead.
Building muscle requires using them, so they tear and grow. As you don't seem to be about to enter "Mr Universe" you'll be better off with aerobic stuff, preferably low impact as you ain't a spring chicken. Swimming is good, but you have to choose something you enjoy or you just won't stick with it.
Start with a basic good diet. Lose a stone or two over two months. Then start at the gym in March when the "New Years Resolutioners" have given up.
Best of.
Losing bodyfat will make you feel better and you may decide that you look better too.
There's nothing wrong with training very hard with weights, but only if you know what you're doing - the importance of good exercise form can't be overemphasised. I've been training for 15 years and I still study good form and refresh my memory.
If you join a gym then you should be given a training plan to follow; most gyms offer a review after 2 or 3 months. Have a look out for magazines like Men's Health or Men's Fitness: the January issues should still be in shops and they've got loads of good info in. Thinking about it, the January issues should have an article on finding the right gym, starting out etc, etc.
Animal
There's nothing wrong with training very hard with weights, but only if you know what you're doing - the importance of good exercise form can't be overemphasised. I've been training for 15 years and I still study good form and refresh my memory.
If you join a gym then you should be given a training plan to follow; most gyms offer a review after 2 or 3 months. Have a look out for magazines like Men's Health or Men's Fitness: the January issues should still be in shops and they've got loads of good info in. Thinking about it, the January issues should have an article on finding the right gym, starting out etc, etc.
Animal
I can't really give great advice on the eating side of things etc etc only my pearsonal findings over the last year or so of trying to shift the buldge!
I have found that a good compromise when using weights and wanting to gain some muscle but also lose fat is to use a low weight but high reps. This way your almost getting a cardiovascular workout whilst still toning the muscles, although, not as much as heavy weight training.
I am overweight, always have been, but was never a problem as I used to play loads of Rugby in school so I had the muscle from running every day too. Since leaving school I started working silly shifts in McDonalds and practically having it for breakfast dinner and tea, although I know I didn’t HAVE to have it, it was free (on breaks) so as a school leaver was like a dream come true to get free maccys daily.
ALL my muscle turned to fat. I am now in the process (after leaving McDonalds 3 years or so ago) of working to get rid of the weight and get my old shape back (minus a bit more weight) and so far have lost 2 stone in around about a year which considering the amount and times I work including the little free time I actually get to exercise is awesome! I am looking to lose just over another 2 stone this year and then hopefully will have a fully acceptable BMI
I would love to join an adult rugby team but any nearby ones unfortunately do not train on night I am free, but a mixture of running by myself, the Wii fit and some weights seem to be doing the trick.
Either way, keep at it, even on the cold mornings when your thinking "fk this" as at the end of the week when you see it dropping off it makes it worth it.
Is costing me loads buying smaller clothes every few months though!
I have found that a good compromise when using weights and wanting to gain some muscle but also lose fat is to use a low weight but high reps. This way your almost getting a cardiovascular workout whilst still toning the muscles, although, not as much as heavy weight training.
I am overweight, always have been, but was never a problem as I used to play loads of Rugby in school so I had the muscle from running every day too. Since leaving school I started working silly shifts in McDonalds and practically having it for breakfast dinner and tea, although I know I didn’t HAVE to have it, it was free (on breaks) so as a school leaver was like a dream come true to get free maccys daily.
ALL my muscle turned to fat. I am now in the process (after leaving McDonalds 3 years or so ago) of working to get rid of the weight and get my old shape back (minus a bit more weight) and so far have lost 2 stone in around about a year which considering the amount and times I work including the little free time I actually get to exercise is awesome! I am looking to lose just over another 2 stone this year and then hopefully will have a fully acceptable BMI
I would love to join an adult rugby team but any nearby ones unfortunately do not train on night I am free, but a mixture of running by myself, the Wii fit and some weights seem to be doing the trick.
Either way, keep at it, even on the cold mornings when your thinking "f
k this" as at the end of the week when you see it dropping off it makes it worth it.Is costing me loads buying smaller clothes every few months though!
Edited by ymwoods on Monday 28th December 06:49
ymwoods said:
I can't really give great advice on the eating side of things etc etc only my pearsonal findings over the last year or so of trying to shift the buldge!
I have found that a good compromise when using weights and wanting to gain some muscle but also lose fat is to use a low weight but high reps. This way your almost getting a cardiovascular workout whilst still toning the muscles, although, not as much as heavy weight training.
I am overweight, always have been, but was never a problem as I used to play loads of Rugby in school so I had the muscle from running every day too. Since leaving school I started working silly shifts in McDonalds and practically having it for breakfast dinner and tea, although I know I didn’t HAVE to have it, it was free (on breaks) so as a school leaver was like a dream come true to get free maccys daily.
ALL my muscle turned to fat. I am now in the process (after leaving McDonalds 3 years or so ago) of working to get rid of the weight and get my old shape back (minus a bit more weight) and so far have lost 2 stone in around about a year which considering the amount and times I work including the little free time I actually get to exercise is awesome! I am looking to lose just over another 2 stone this year and then hopefully will have a fully acceptable BMI
I would love to join an adult rugby team but any nearby ones unfortunately do not train on night I am free, but a mixture of running by myself, the Wii fit and some weights seem to be doing the trick.
Either way, keep at it, even on the cold mornings when your thinking "fk this" as at the end of the week when you see it dropping off it makes it worth it.
Is costing me loads buying smaller clothes every few months though!
I'd recommend trying to find a decent rugby club that you can train with twice a week http://clubs.rfu.com/Clubs/admin/RFUSearch.aspx will help you find one.I have found that a good compromise when using weights and wanting to gain some muscle but also lose fat is to use a low weight but high reps. This way your almost getting a cardiovascular workout whilst still toning the muscles, although, not as much as heavy weight training.
I am overweight, always have been, but was never a problem as I used to play loads of Rugby in school so I had the muscle from running every day too. Since leaving school I started working silly shifts in McDonalds and practically having it for breakfast dinner and tea, although I know I didn’t HAVE to have it, it was free (on breaks) so as a school leaver was like a dream come true to get free maccys daily.
ALL my muscle turned to fat. I am now in the process (after leaving McDonalds 3 years or so ago) of working to get rid of the weight and get my old shape back (minus a bit more weight) and so far have lost 2 stone in around about a year which considering the amount and times I work including the little free time I actually get to exercise is awesome! I am looking to lose just over another 2 stone this year and then hopefully will have a fully acceptable BMI
I would love to join an adult rugby team but any nearby ones unfortunately do not train on night I am free, but a mixture of running by myself, the Wii fit and some weights seem to be doing the trick.
Either way, keep at it, even on the cold mornings when your thinking "f
k this" as at the end of the week when you see it dropping off it makes it worth it.Is costing me loads buying smaller clothes every few months though!
Edited by ymwoods on Monday 28th December 06:49
If you want to get back into playing rugby at some stage then fartlek style training (walk, jog, sprint) is best to build your rugby specific cardio. I'd also suggest doing some sprint/speed work
ymwoods said:
hopefully will have a fully acceptable BMI
Gah!I was told by the nurse at my GP's surgery that my BMI was 'just over' the acceptable figure, and didn't seem to appreciate that I was 11% bodyfat! Useless f
king number if you ask me.If you are going to weigh yourself, do it say once a week and under the same conditions (i.e. on a Monday morning, before breakfast but after going to the toilet). That and the mirror are the ways you measure your weight loss.
2 stone already? Well done you, that's serious progress... An average of half a pound a week over the course of a year!
whythem said:
The reason I ask is, I am told that you cannot do a wieght loss diet and build muscle at the same time? Any opinions?
Entirely possible.Past 4/5 months I have been doing it by making sure I eat less than 2000 cals a day, making sure what I eat is good food, and doing regular exercise. 2.5 stone lost and vast improvements in the world of fitness / muscle tone.
FWIW I'd recommend doing a bit of everything to begin with. Weights will build muscle, so eventually your cardio will end up burning more cals.
The real key is that you are less likely to get bored out your nut and keep going, rather than dreading spending an hour or so on a bike/treadmill/moonwalker.
The real key is that you are less likely to get bored out your nut and keep going, rather than dreading spending an hour or so on a bike/treadmill/moonwalker.
Animal said:
To build muscle mass you need to take in more than your 'baseline' or maintenance calorie intake.
To reduce your body mass, (in your case body fat), you must create a calorie deficit whereby you burn more calories during the day than you consume, causing your body to eat into (no pun intended) it's stored reserves. It is very difficult to drop bodyfat and increase muscle mass for this reason.
However, if you have never trained with weights before then you'll find that you will tone up and develop some muscularity - simply because you haven't worked those muscles to that extent before.
As far as your goals I'd suggest the following:
1) Aim for 0.75 to 1 gramme of protein per pound of bodyweight per day.
2) Aim for double this in carbs.
3) Aim for half this in fats.
4) Go for unrefined and natural foods wherever possible. The more processed your food is, the less use it is.
5) Split this between 3 reasonable meals and 3 snacks - little and often will increase your metabolism.
6) Never skip breakfast - this kickstarts your metabolism for the day.
7) It's fine to do some weights, but make sure you have someone show you how to do each exercise properly - and start light! There's nothing more frustrating than being injured...
8) Aim to lose between 1 and 2 lbs per week. Any more than this and you're losing weight too fast.
HTH,
Animal
PS - Forgot to add: cardio gets really, really boring. I was dropping bodyfat this summer and I was walking on a bloody treadmill for an hour each morning before breakfast. Plod, plod, plod! Weights will give you variety.
That all seems like very sensible advice and the stuff about needing a surplus of calories to build muscle (often also equals to gain weight) seems to fit the science and is standard practice. To reduce your body mass, (in your case body fat), you must create a calorie deficit whereby you burn more calories during the day than you consume, causing your body to eat into (no pun intended) it's stored reserves. It is very difficult to drop bodyfat and increase muscle mass for this reason.
However, if you have never trained with weights before then you'll find that you will tone up and develop some muscularity - simply because you haven't worked those muscles to that extent before.
As far as your goals I'd suggest the following:
1) Aim for 0.75 to 1 gramme of protein per pound of bodyweight per day.
2) Aim for double this in carbs.
3) Aim for half this in fats.
4) Go for unrefined and natural foods wherever possible. The more processed your food is, the less use it is.
5) Split this between 3 reasonable meals and 3 snacks - little and often will increase your metabolism.
6) Never skip breakfast - this kickstarts your metabolism for the day.
7) It's fine to do some weights, but make sure you have someone show you how to do each exercise properly - and start light! There's nothing more frustrating than being injured...
8) Aim to lose between 1 and 2 lbs per week. Any more than this and you're losing weight too fast.
HTH,
Animal
PS - Forgot to add: cardio gets really, really boring. I was dropping bodyfat this summer and I was walking on a bloody treadmill for an hour each morning before breakfast. Plod, plod, plod! Weights will give you variety.
Edited by Animal on Sunday 27th December 19:47
But, from personal experience, strange as it might seem, it can be done - I know because I did.
I admit that I soon got into and really liked weight lifting when I started it which helped but in the 1st two years of such training I was also dieting like crazy, doing a lot of cycling & running but did gain a lot of muscle and more or less doubled my strength while losing 7 stone.
The diet was v. OTT & nowhere near as sensible as 'Animal' suggests with far too few calories and meals, fasting some weeks for 1 or 2 days, ignoring breakfast etc. for long periods and I've suffered the yo-yo of gain/lose/gain/lose since, partly poor discipline, partly injuries reducing exercise. I'd know better now and be more steady and think long term.
Later, it was easier to train and grow when I wasn't dieting, or not dieting so hard but it is possible; not a theoretical possible but something I personally experienced.
Overall though I'd emphasise the aerobic/calorie burning work 1st and worry less about muscle (maybe it could come later?) to start with. Just dieting isn't great as you don't have much of a fitness gain, it doesn't add to your cv capacity etc. and your metabolism will slow down making losses slower + your body will catobalise muscle more easily if it isn't used/needed (maintaining muscle adds to your basal metabolic rate too!)
Best of luck with it.
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