Overtraining Triceps?

Author
Discussion

JakeR

Original Poster:

3,933 posts

276 months

Monday 7th December 2009
quotequote all
Chaps,

I am currently training with weights 3 times a week (splits). The mainstay of my chest exercise is bench press, and the mainstay of my shoulder exercise is the shoulder press, both of which are 'compound' and, I understand, both are 'musts'... both of these exercises hit my triceps pretty hard too.

I also, once a week, do isolation exercises for the triceps.

I am sat here now with aching triceps, again!!

Am I overtraining my triceps? If so, how should I modify what I am doing?

cheers

JakeR



shakotan

10,780 posts

203 months

Monday 7th December 2009
quotequote all
JakeR said:
Chaps,

I am currently training with weights 3 times a week (splits). The mainstay of my chest exercise is bench press, and the mainstay of my shoulder exercise is the shoulder press, both of which are 'compound' and, I understand, both are 'musts'... both of these exercises hit my triceps pretty hard too.

I also, once a week, do isolation exercises for the triceps.

I am sat here now with aching triceps, again!!

Am I overtraining my triceps? If so, how should I modify what I am doing?

cheers

JakeR
Surely if they are aching, it's good? Means you've 'damaged' the muscle tissue enough for it to rebuild stronger, which is the whole theory behind building muscle?

clonmult

10,529 posts

216 months

Monday 7th December 2009
quotequote all
shakotan said:
JakeR said:
Chaps,

I am currently training with weights 3 times a week (splits). The mainstay of my chest exercise is bench press, and the mainstay of my shoulder exercise is the shoulder press, both of which are 'compound' and, I understand, both are 'musts'... both of these exercises hit my triceps pretty hard too.

I also, once a week, do isolation exercises for the triceps.

I am sat here now with aching triceps, again!!

Am I overtraining my triceps? If so, how should I modify what I am doing?

cheers

JakeR
Surely if they are aching, it's good? Means you've 'damaged' the muscle tissue enough for it to rebuild stronger, which is the whole theory behind building muscle?
As long as you do give the muscles time to rest, and don't work them out while they're aching.

I'm doing mon/wed/fri CV - 35 minutes cycling, 25 minutes running, then on tuesdays is back/biceps, thursday chest/triceps (weights session is done after a 15 minute run). From what I've read you don't necessarily get that much in the way of gains from working out each muscle group more than once a week.

Right now this seems to be working for me - the plateau I'd reached on the tricep dip has finally been whupped, and I'm now doing the whole stack on the machine + a couple of extra weights. Feels damn good to finally be getting some gains!

Digger

15,169 posts

198 months

Monday 7th December 2009
quotequote all
When was your last triceps isolation session?
Have you added a new isolation exercise in the last few days?

JakeR

Original Poster:

3,933 posts

276 months

Monday 7th December 2009
quotequote all
Digger said:
When was your last triceps isolation session?
Have you added a new isolation exercise in the last few days?
erm, it was on Wednesday last week, BUT, I am due to do another one tomorrow, as well as shoulder press... (which kind of prompted the question really!)

Edited by JakeR on Monday 7th December 14:07

pbirkett

18,500 posts

279 months

Monday 7th December 2009
quotequote all
Just IMO of course, but I dont bother doing isolation exercises, except for bicep curls as my normal routine doesn't always hit them as hard as they could.

Doing shoulder press and bench press will hit your triceps plenty hard enough IMO. Thats two exercises on the tricep, so unless you're after comedy muscles, I'd say you don't really need them. If you must, do them on the same day as your shoulder and bench press to finish them off.

Each to their own of course, and everyone is different, etc etc.

Lost_BMW

12,955 posts

183 months

Monday 7th December 2009
quotequote all
pbirkett said:
Just IMO of course, but I dont bother doing isolation exercises, except for bicep curls as my normal routine doesn't always hit them as hard as they could.

Doing shoulder press and bench press will hit your triceps plenty hard enough IMO. Thats two exercises on the tricep, so unless you're after comedy muscles, I'd say you don't really need them. If you must, do them on the same day as your shoulder and bench press to finish them off.

Each to their own of course, and everyone is different, etc etc.
Again, I'd suggest there is a lot of sense in this view, given though that I don't know what your intentions are - out right size, strength, sport training or 'bodybuilding'?

Unless you are really after a bodybuilder look - and even then for some of your training - focussing on the 'biggies' should bring better strength gains with less time and less risk of over-training them (if such a thing really exists?!)

As per another thread on arms, the only things I'd suggest adding, and not necessarily every workout or week are dips and push ups and close grip bench presses if your wrists don't get affected. Maybe switch between the bench press and either dips or close grip benches every now and then, or add a couple of sets of one following benches (but not adding too many more sets overall) every few workouts?

JakeR

Original Poster:

3,933 posts

276 months

Tuesday 8th December 2009
quotequote all
Lost_BMW said:
pbirkett said:
Just IMO of course, but I dont bother doing isolation exercises, except for bicep curls as my normal routine doesn't always hit them as hard as they could.

Doing shoulder press and bench press will hit your triceps plenty hard enough IMO. Thats two exercises on the tricep, so unless you're after comedy muscles, I'd say you don't really need them. If you must, do them on the same day as your shoulder and bench press to finish them off.

Each to their own of course, and everyone is different, etc etc.
Again, I'd suggest there is a lot of sense in this view, given though that I don't know what your intentions are - out right size, strength, sport training or 'bodybuilding'?

Unless you are really after a bodybuilder look - and even then for some of your training - focussing on the 'biggies' should bring better strength gains with less time and less risk of over-training them (if such a thing really exists?!)

As per another thread on arms, the only things I'd suggest adding, and not necessarily every workout or week are dips and push ups and close grip bench presses if your wrists don't get affected. Maybe switch between the bench press and either dips or close grip benches every now and then, or add a couple of sets of one following benches (but not adding too many more sets overall) every few workouts?
If truth be told, I dont really have any one specific goal, I'd like to be a bit more toned, a bit bigger, and certainly wouldnt mind being stronger. I'm not really body builder material tbh smile

I think I might lay off the triceps isolation bits for a while, as they do seem to be getting caned too regularly... I guess they must be a relative weak link in the chain for me...



Lost_BMW

12,955 posts

183 months

Tuesday 8th December 2009
quotequote all
JakeR said:
Lost_BMW said:
pbirkett said:
Just IMO of course, but I dont bother doing isolation exercises, except for bicep curls as my normal routine doesn't always hit them as hard as they could.

Doing shoulder press and bench press will hit your triceps plenty hard enough IMO. Thats two exercises on the tricep, so unless you're after comedy muscles, I'd say you don't really need them. If you must, do them on the same day as your shoulder and bench press to finish them off.

Each to their own of course, and everyone is different, etc etc.
Again, I'd suggest there is a lot of sense in this view, given though that I don't know what your intentions are - out right size, strength, sport training or 'bodybuilding'?

Unless you are really after a bodybuilder look - and even then for some of your training - focussing on the 'biggies' should bring better strength gains with less time and less risk of over-training them (if such a thing really exists?!)

As per another thread on arms, the only things I'd suggest adding, and not necessarily every workout or week are dips and push ups and close grip bench presses if your wrists don't get affected. Maybe switch between the bench press and either dips or close grip benches every now and then, or add a couple of sets of one following benches (but not adding too many more sets overall) every few workouts?
If truth be told, I dont really have any one specific goal, I'd like to be a bit more toned, a bit bigger, and certainly wouldnt mind being stronger. I'm not really body builder material tbh smile

I think I might lay off the triceps isolation bits for a while, as they do seem to be getting caned too regularly... I guess they must be a relative weak link in the chain for me...
If it's toned, stronger and a bit bigger you want then I think most types of workout would go somewhere towards that assuming you eat OK and rest enough, so maybe do the things you like and feel help to keep your enthusiasm up. It might also be an idea to switch things around every-now and then to keep mind and body fresh and to be able to check the effects of different routines. It might be a good idea though to keep one or two regular exercises just so you can directly monitor your progress re. strength gains etc.

Overal, the bigger compound exercise should do the trick as they should get you stronger, should give some size and so unless you put on extra weight as fat you would get more 'toned' (assuming I know what it means?!)

Triceps may not be a weak link, just that they do get hit by many exercises so could feel sore when you weren't expecting it. Even years and years into training I could get surprisingly sore triceps from some pressing only workouts and yet other days nothing much from specific tricep workouts!

TDutchy

661 posts

202 months

Tuesday 8th December 2009
quotequote all
Buddy, my workout used to be pretty similar. I have just come home from shoulder surgery, partially as a result of this workout. Make SURE you train your back/shoulderblades as much if not more!

Good luck.

Lost_BMW

12,955 posts

183 months

Tuesday 15th December 2009
quotequote all
TDutchy said:
Buddy, my workout used to be pretty similar. I have just come home from shoulder surgery, partially as a result of this workout. Make SURE you train your back/shoulderblades as much if not more!

Good luck.
Agree with you.

I had a "Class 2" shoulder separation about 4 years ago + have had bursitis etc. on and off over the years. I have a Shoulder Yoke (and the 7 steps to shoulder rehab book) for light weight inner stabilisers development exercises.

Rear lateral raises with cables or weights are good for balancing the upper body which many common routines don't, and scapula based raises - e.g. weights at side of thigh and lifted up and out with thumb at top leading and palms forward so parallel to the trunk at the top position. I've recently read quite a bit of stuff that has convinced me on the value of training the scapula, stabilisers and inner/lower traps to help avoid 'pulls' etc.

allgonepetetong

1,188 posts

226 months

Tuesday 15th December 2009
quotequote all
Why not train shoulders and chest on the same day, then have a few days off before isolating your tris?

That way you only hit them twice a week instead of three, if I understood your post correctly?

T40ORA

5,177 posts

226 months

Tuesday 15th December 2009
quotequote all
Lost_BMW said:
TDutchy said:
Buddy, my workout used to be pretty similar. I have just come home from shoulder surgery, partially as a result of this workout. Make SURE you train your back/shoulderblades as much if not more!

Good luck.
Agree with you.

I had a "Class 2" shoulder separation about 4 years ago + have had bursitis etc. on and off over the years. I have a Shoulder Yoke (and the 7 steps to shoulder rehab book) for light weight inner stabilisers development exercises.

Rear lateral raises with cables or weights are good for balancing the upper body which many common routines don't, and scapula based raises - e.g.
weights at side of thigh and lifted up and out with thumb at top leading and palms forward so parallel to the trunk at the top position. I've recently read quite a bit of stuff that has convinced me on the value of training the scapula, stabilisers and inner/lower traps to help avoid 'pulls' etc.
I have to have a shoulder operation in January (keyhole and hopefully just some trimming); can you point me to the back/scapula stabilisation exercises? My physio has said that my left one moves all over the place, despite trying 'setting' exercises and having had it taped a couple of times.

Halb

53,012 posts

190 months

Tuesday 15th December 2009
quotequote all

Lost_BMW

12,955 posts

183 months

Tuesday 15th December 2009
quotequote all
T40ORA said:
Lost_BMW said:
TDutchy said:
Buddy, my workout used to be pretty similar. I have just come home from shoulder surgery, partially as a result of this workout. Make SURE you train your back/shoulderblades as much if not more!

Good luck.
Agree with you.

I had a "Class 2" shoulder separation about 4 years ago + have had bursitis etc. on and off over the years. I have a Shoulder Yoke (and the 7 steps to shoulder rehab book) for light weight inner stabilisers development exercises.

Rear lateral raises with cables or weights are good for balancing the upper body which many common routines don't, and scapula based raises - e.g.
weights at side of thigh and lifted up and out with thumb at top leading and palms forward so parallel to the trunk at the top position. I've recently read quite a bit of stuff that has convinced me on the value of training the scapula, stabilisers and inner/lower traps to help avoid 'pulls' etc.
I have to have a shoulder operation in January (keyhole and hopefully just some trimming); can you point me to the back/scapula stabilisation exercises? My physio has said that my left one moves all over the place, despite trying 'setting' exercises and having had it taped a couple of times.
The site Halb listed in his post is one of those I read - makes sense. I'll try to dig up the references for other books and get back - the Shoulder Horn I got (imported it from the US) has a small booklet with some good stabilisation and inner muscle/tendon exercises and developers. It's helped me - touch wood I can now press quite happily again with no pain despite it being quite a bad injury.

T40ORA

5,177 posts

226 months

Tuesday 15th December 2009
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Ta!

Halb

53,012 posts

190 months

Wednesday 16th December 2009
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I have a slight tightness in my shoulder which has kept me out of the gym Mon and lest night, but I would hate to let my 6th week of training slide. Still not sure if I am going tonight, if I do I can do my heavy day, if I don't then I shall have to let my light day this week go. Here is another page that I am looking at.
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_...

Digger

15,169 posts

198 months

Wednesday 16th December 2009
quotequote all
L BMW. I'd also be interested in any stabilisation exercises or info you may have discovered. Some form of mild rotator cuff injuries in my case. Prevents me from doing serious chest work, tri dips (albeit an unnatural movement) pressups etc.

Thanks.

Lost_BMW

12,955 posts

183 months

Wednesday 16th December 2009
quotequote all
Digger said:
L BMW. I'd also be interested in any stabilisation exercises or info you may have discovered. Some form of mild rotator cuff injuries in my case. Prevents me from doing serious chest work, tri dips (albeit an unnatural movement) pressups etc.

Thanks.
Ok - I've now found my book. This is the best guide to exercises including stretching for shoulder injury prevention and rehabilitation I've read.

It's called "The 7 minute rotator cuff solution" by Joseph Horrigan and Jerry Robinson, published by Health For Life and the ISBN is: 0-944831 - 25 - 7

A lot of the exercises are quite unusual and difficult to describe without pictures but they do the job, though I need to be more consistent and dedicated. Many involve hands only or very light weight versions of laterals, rotator 'curls' and flyes (as they seem to call them) usually with a 90 degree bent starting position or hands hanging in front of or below the body and using just the shoulder joint to initiate and complete very controlled movements.

The good thing is they have pictures of how AND how not to do things that could easily be got wrong just from a verbal or written description. Generally they recommend doing these on a separate day to usual work or after weights and there are several routines to do for different ends, hence the 7 minute bit of the title.

It also has a lot of illustrated detail about how the shoulder and scapula work and the effect/risks of different moves and stuff about how many of us have shortened tendons et. as a result of focussing on one type of training - e.g. over doing benches etc.

If you are serious about getting over or preventing injuries I'd highly recommend it. If you know whether the problem is a separation, bursitis, compressed or pulled tendons/ligaments etc. it has routines to help.

Digger

15,169 posts

198 months

Wednesday 16th December 2009
quotequote all
Thanks for posting that David. Much appreciated

Now, just need to find somewhere that isn't selling it for a bazillionty ££'s!