Who is to blame?
Discussion
I am currently getting Cognitive Behavioural Therapy for PTSD, my Doc has told me to tell my story to as many people as possible and to try and find blame in people other than myself.
I blame myself for being a bit silly as I am usually a very cautious person, but he is saying that it is not my fault.
Please be gentle with me...... (not that I am expecting it!)
Oh, and yes I know there are grammatical errors!
Here goes.....
After work on the evening of 13th December 2006 at about 4:30pm, I poured myself a pint of fosters that I had earned in tips during my shift. I sat on a stool on the end of the bar. I remember wearing green combat trousers, my DC trainers a vest top and a brown stripped hoodie. I also had a grey coat that I was not wearing.
My boss S was around taking over my shift, my friends C, J and L were around. We all sat and talked for a few hours until it was suggested that we go to a nightclub across the road called Mood, this was around 9:30pm. When we got into Mood it was a bit quiet being so early, nothing interesting happened, just a usual night. C got me a WKD blue, which he also drunk. While in Mood we danced and chatted. Quite early on L had gone off somewhere and I don’t remember seeing him again that evening. A little later on in the evening, Matthew joined us, I didn’t know him that well, but C knew him better and they were talking. My boss S also knew him, Matthew worked part time in the same bar as me, different shifts. After a while of talking, C and J seemed to wander off somewhere, not sure when or where they went. Matthew suggested that I joined him and his friends to go to another club called Phoenix. The people with Matthew consisted of 2 girls whose names I cannot remember and a very extravagant gay man called Quinton, he was a bit older that the rest of them, around 40 years old. This was around 12am, the club closed at 1 am and I was up for going elsewhere. We went to KFC before getting a taxi down to Phoenix. I remember having a fillet tower burger, and at this point I remember one of the girls was wearing something blue.
One of them must have called a taxi while I was eating, the taxi was a big one, mini van type and I remember it being a light colour, silver I think. The next significant memory was being in Phoenix around a table with Matthew and Quinton, the girls had been with us around the table but went off to sit somewhere else. I was given another WKD blue by Matthew, after sitting around talking for a while I got up to go to the toilet, leaving my drink on the table. (In the club that we were in, you were not allowed to take bottles or glasses into the toilets) Just before that another man arrived at the table, one of Matthews friends. I cant remember anything significant about him apart from the fact that he was still wearing his coat even though it was very warm inside. When I got back, I was told that they were leaving soon so I had to down my drink.(I wanted to get home and didnt want to stay there by myself) I did so and then sat there talking for a bit longer. I put my coat on before we left.
When we left the club, when outside I remember being hit with the feeling of being drunk and sick, even though I had not had many drinks. I was carried to the car park by two people, I would guess that it was Matthew and Quinton. I was taken to a car, I remember telling someone my address, glad to be getting a lift home. After that I dont have much memory at all, apart from feeling sick and totally out of control.
I have a memory of waking up while in a car for a very short time, all I could see was a long, straight road ahead, lights to the right and brushes to the left.
The next memory I have is waking up in the hospital, strapped to a board and covered in blood. On my left was my dad and to the right was my mum, both looking very upset, my mum crying. Over to the right was a board on the wall with patient information on, I saw my name and the words ‘car accident, ejected from car, serious head injuries’. Not much else as my mum was in the way. I was given a brief report of what happened told I needed stitches on my scalp. The time was around 6/7am, I fell asleep again whilst getting my head stitched.
I was told that they were heading to a caravan park in Cosgrove, the driver had a caravan there.
I blame myself for being a bit silly as I am usually a very cautious person, but he is saying that it is not my fault.
Please be gentle with me...... (not that I am expecting it!)
Oh, and yes I know there are grammatical errors!
Here goes.....
After work on the evening of 13th December 2006 at about 4:30pm, I poured myself a pint of fosters that I had earned in tips during my shift. I sat on a stool on the end of the bar. I remember wearing green combat trousers, my DC trainers a vest top and a brown stripped hoodie. I also had a grey coat that I was not wearing.
My boss S was around taking over my shift, my friends C, J and L were around. We all sat and talked for a few hours until it was suggested that we go to a nightclub across the road called Mood, this was around 9:30pm. When we got into Mood it was a bit quiet being so early, nothing interesting happened, just a usual night. C got me a WKD blue, which he also drunk. While in Mood we danced and chatted. Quite early on L had gone off somewhere and I don’t remember seeing him again that evening. A little later on in the evening, Matthew joined us, I didn’t know him that well, but C knew him better and they were talking. My boss S also knew him, Matthew worked part time in the same bar as me, different shifts. After a while of talking, C and J seemed to wander off somewhere, not sure when or where they went. Matthew suggested that I joined him and his friends to go to another club called Phoenix. The people with Matthew consisted of 2 girls whose names I cannot remember and a very extravagant gay man called Quinton, he was a bit older that the rest of them, around 40 years old. This was around 12am, the club closed at 1 am and I was up for going elsewhere. We went to KFC before getting a taxi down to Phoenix. I remember having a fillet tower burger, and at this point I remember one of the girls was wearing something blue.
One of them must have called a taxi while I was eating, the taxi was a big one, mini van type and I remember it being a light colour, silver I think. The next significant memory was being in Phoenix around a table with Matthew and Quinton, the girls had been with us around the table but went off to sit somewhere else. I was given another WKD blue by Matthew, after sitting around talking for a while I got up to go to the toilet, leaving my drink on the table. (In the club that we were in, you were not allowed to take bottles or glasses into the toilets) Just before that another man arrived at the table, one of Matthews friends. I cant remember anything significant about him apart from the fact that he was still wearing his coat even though it was very warm inside. When I got back, I was told that they were leaving soon so I had to down my drink.(I wanted to get home and didnt want to stay there by myself) I did so and then sat there talking for a bit longer. I put my coat on before we left.
When we left the club, when outside I remember being hit with the feeling of being drunk and sick, even though I had not had many drinks. I was carried to the car park by two people, I would guess that it was Matthew and Quinton. I was taken to a car, I remember telling someone my address, glad to be getting a lift home. After that I dont have much memory at all, apart from feeling sick and totally out of control.
I have a memory of waking up while in a car for a very short time, all I could see was a long, straight road ahead, lights to the right and brushes to the left.
The next memory I have is waking up in the hospital, strapped to a board and covered in blood. On my left was my dad and to the right was my mum, both looking very upset, my mum crying. Over to the right was a board on the wall with patient information on, I saw my name and the words ‘car accident, ejected from car, serious head injuries’. Not much else as my mum was in the way. I was given a brief report of what happened told I needed stitches on my scalp. The time was around 6/7am, I fell asleep again whilst getting my head stitched.
I was told that they were heading to a caravan park in Cosgrove, the driver had a caravan there.
Your drink was spiked and you were tossed from a moving car - That's not your fault in the slightest, it's the people that did it - you wouldn't knowingly get in to a car to go to a caravan park - would you?
Hope you get over this in as clean a way as possible.
I hope that's all that's happened to you....
Hope you get over this in as clean a way as possible.
You blame yourself? For what part exactly?
I assume you have a deep regret about some part of the outcome of the accident, but everything was going to a plan, not a great plan mind, until someone else crashed.
You aren't going through a "what if" loop are you? If that's the case, you need to think about how many "what if's" you've got through already.
I assume you have a deep regret about some part of the outcome of the accident, but everything was going to a plan, not a great plan mind, until someone else crashed.
You aren't going through a "what if" loop are you? If that's the case, you need to think about how many "what if's" you've got through already.
james_tigerwoods said:
Your drink was spiked and you were tossed from a moving car - That's not your fault in the slightest, it's the people that did it - you wouldn't knowingly get in to a car to go to a caravan park - would you?
Hope you get over this in as clean a way as possible.
Well, yes. I am certain my drink was spiked, and I would definately not go to a caravan park with people I hardly knew!I hope that's all that's happened to you....
Hope you get over this in as clean a way as possible.
I just cant seem to get over the fact that I left my drink on the table with them. To be fair, the drink could have been spiked at the bar, so by the time it was left on the table I might have already been feeling the affects.
Thanks for the comments, I am feeling better about it already after a few sessions
OnTheOverrun said:
I'm struggling to understand to be honest.
You went out with some people you know and were involved in a car accident?
And now you need counselling as it upsets you and you want to blame yourself?
What are you expecting from the forum?
I ended up with people that I didnt know very well, that part I blame myself for, obviously. You went out with some people you know and were involved in a car accident?
And now you need counselling as it upsets you and you want to blame yourself?
What are you expecting from the forum?
They spiked my drink, possibly when i left it on the table with them! This i also blame myself for.
And I am not expecting much to be honest, the usual rude comments included. I basically wanted some outside opinions because in this situation i can only see it from my point of view!
MrsNemo said:
james_tigerwoods said:
Your drink was spiked and you were tossed from a moving car - That's not your fault in the slightest, it's the people that did it - you wouldn't knowingly get in to a car to go to a caravan park - would you?
Hope you get over this in as clean a way as possible.
Well, yes. I am certain my drink was spiked, and I would definately not go to a caravan park with people I hardly knew!I hope that's all that's happened to you....
Hope you get over this in as clean a way as possible.
I just cant seem to get over the fact that I left my drink on the table with them. To be fair, the drink could have been spiked at the bar, so by the time it was left on the table I might have already been feeling the affects.
Thanks for the comments, I am feeling better about it already after a few sessions
Look on this as something bad that happened out of your control that wasn't your fault - now you have to control that which you can - which is your own future.
It sounds to me that you went for a night out with some friends and it ended up becoming a larger group including people you didn't know too well. As often happens on nights out everyone started drifting off and through no fault of your own you were left in an unfamiliar group.
What happened after that you had no control over. If you couldn't take the drink with you why shouldn't you leave it with the group of people you were out with, what else could you have done with it?
It is terrible what happened to you and you have all my sympathy. It was not your fault, it was the fault of the people who made a conscious decision to do this to you.
That is MHO from what I read in your post.
What happened after that you had no control over. If you couldn't take the drink with you why shouldn't you leave it with the group of people you were out with, what else could you have done with it?
It is terrible what happened to you and you have all my sympathy. It was not your fault, it was the fault of the people who made a conscious decision to do this to you.
That is MHO from what I read in your post.
IL_JDM said:
Indeed elements could have been avoided, who's to say they wouldn't have just hit you over the head or something whilst offering you 'a lift home' though??
Yes there are steps you could have taken, but then any mistake in life could have been avoided, that's the wonderful but annoying thing about hindsight.
I've warned my missus about this several times (accepting or leaving drinks), some clubs don't allow drinks on the dance floor, so drink up before you head to it, never come back to it and drink.
How are you anyway?
Really, thank you for the comments people, it really is helpful getting outsider opinions. Yes there are steps you could have taken, but then any mistake in life could have been avoided, that's the wonderful but annoying thing about hindsight.
I've warned my missus about this several times (accepting or leaving drinks), some clubs don't allow drinks on the dance floor, so drink up before you head to it, never come back to it and drink.
How are you anyway?
Edited by IL_JDM on Wednesday 21st October 15:51
I am fine now, only a short stay in hospital afterwards. My mum used to be a nurse so she took up the task of keeping me well!
A month after it happened I went back to uni, I was in my final year! I got my degree, learnt how to drive a year later, and now planning a round the world trip and am also planning on doing a Masters in forensic psychology when i get back!
I feel like I have come such a long way since it happened but am still struggling a little.
ETA- The driver got 3 points and a small fine, the rest got away. The police apparently could not prove that my drink had been spiked.
Edited by MrsNemo on Wednesday 21st October 16:01
Having obviously recovered enough to be posting here and thinking back on this, what happened to the other people in the car?
I can see that you might reprimand yourself for leaving a drink with people you only knew by association, but thats the point - Your friends obviously knew them and trusted them!?
Do you now believe that you were being set up for a rape, and what you're actually feeling is anxiety at what could have happened, not so much feeling regret for what did?
Its an awful thing to have happened, and if you still hold the same circle of friends I'd be asking some serious questions about quentin and co (presumably the same people in the accident) to find out what if anything is known about them.
For your own peace of mind - you have come out the other side of it, and at no point were you to 'blame' for anything thats happened. You could always be more cautious, or think in hiencite - but you cant change it.
Is there something else to this that your still worried about!?
I can see that you might reprimand yourself for leaving a drink with people you only knew by association, but thats the point - Your friends obviously knew them and trusted them!?
Do you now believe that you were being set up for a rape, and what you're actually feeling is anxiety at what could have happened, not so much feeling regret for what did?
Its an awful thing to have happened, and if you still hold the same circle of friends I'd be asking some serious questions about quentin and co (presumably the same people in the accident) to find out what if anything is known about them.
For your own peace of mind - you have come out the other side of it, and at no point were you to 'blame' for anything thats happened. You could always be more cautious, or think in hiencite - but you cant change it.
Is there something else to this that your still worried about!?
MrsNemo said:
OnTheOverrun said:
I'm struggling to understand to be honest.
You went out with some people you know and were involved in a car accident?
And now you need counselling as it upsets you and you want to blame yourself?
What are you expecting from the forum?
I ended up with people that I didnt know very well, that part I blame myself for, obviously. You went out with some people you know and were involved in a car accident?
And now you need counselling as it upsets you and you want to blame yourself?
What are you expecting from the forum?
They spiked my drink, possibly when i left it on the table with them! This i also blame myself for.
And I am not expecting much to be honest, the usual rude comments included. I basically wanted some outside opinions because in this situation i can only see it from my point of view!
All I can suggest is that you start applying a value rating to the different 'blame' elements of your problem. Do you rate the blame of your mistake of going for a drink with people you don't know well as highly as you blame the person for allegedly spiking your drink or putting you in a car or crashing that car?
It would seem to me that we are all to blame for everything that ever happens to anyone. The line between sanity and despair is unerstanding the value of blame and attributing it fairly.
Is this about blame or about guilt?
Why do you have to blame anyone - in so far as blaming someone does little other than shift the 'energy'/emotion and resonance of the experience to someone else?
Perhaps this forum is not the best place to ask, but what are you trying to achieve with your CBT? I read what you put in your post, but what are you actually trying to achieve?
Why do you have to blame anyone - in so far as blaming someone does little other than shift the 'energy'/emotion and resonance of the experience to someone else?
Perhaps this forum is not the best place to ask, but what are you trying to achieve with your CBT? I read what you put in your post, but what are you actually trying to achieve?
Edited by drivin_me_nuts on Wednesday 21st October 18:09
MrsNemo.
The main problem is you went to Mood. I think it's probably safer to go raving in Iraq. Where did you work? Must be better places to go nearby!
Milton Keynes has much better to offer than Mood and Cosgrove Caravan Park!
Are you still in contact with these people?
None of this is your fault, apart from leaving your drink unattended. But sometimes it's easy to trust...
Dan
The main problem is you went to Mood. I think it's probably safer to go raving in Iraq. Where did you work? Must be better places to go nearby!
Milton Keynes has much better to offer than Mood and Cosgrove Caravan Park!
Are you still in contact with these people?
None of this is your fault, apart from leaving your drink unattended. But sometimes it's easy to trust...
Dan
- EDIT** Phoenix, the strip club? Go girl!
Edited by Flying Toilet on Thursday 22 October 09:40
Could it be that your drink wasn't spiked?
You had a long shift, then some drinks, then food - your blood sugar would have been all over the place after eating.
My Mrs passed out (with me) after 2 beers and some food. After a load of scans and consultations she was just told it was clood sugar after eating stodge (KFC as it happens) on an empty stomach.
You had a long shift, then some drinks, then food - your blood sugar would have been all over the place after eating.
My Mrs passed out (with me) after 2 beers and some food. After a load of scans and consultations she was just told it was clood sugar after eating stodge (KFC as it happens) on an empty stomach.
Everyone is a bit silly sometimes. Making mistakes is how humans learn. The lucky of us survive their mistakes and (as a bonus) get to vow never to repeat them! 
Based on your tale above, I wouldn't beat yourself up - there is blame attaching all over the place, obviously (not least to whomever crashed the car and hadn't bothered to make sure you were strapped in) but personally I'd find it more constructive to chalk it up to experience, thank my lucky stars that the outcome wasn't worse*, and move on having resolved to be a bit more cautious in future.
* It may not seem like it now, but it could have been; one of my friends at school ended up all the way dead under similar circumstances...
Based on your tale above, I wouldn't beat yourself up - there is blame attaching all over the place, obviously (not least to whomever crashed the car and hadn't bothered to make sure you were strapped in) but personally I'd find it more constructive to chalk it up to experience, thank my lucky stars that the outcome wasn't worse*, and move on having resolved to be a bit more cautious in future.
* It may not seem like it now, but it could have been; one of my friends at school ended up all the way dead under similar circumstances...
A hard learning curve but you survived, physically I assume you're on the mend. We've all been in positions where after we have thought what if, the problem is that doesn't actually solve anything.
You have to realise that you didn't deserve what happened, I doubt you'd have gone off with these guys had you remained fairly sober and not been spiked and there is nothing wrong with chatting to people you don't really know so well in a social place so I only see one error and that was leaving your drink unattended and I think nearly everyone has done that at some point or another. I got spiked due to taking a drink from someone who I thought I knew well enough and never considered that a possibility, luckily for me (I suppose) it was some kind of speed drug so all I did was danced all night and couldn't sleep when I got home, it wasn't some kind of date rape drug (which is why I feel lucky) I could blame myself for being too trusting but it happened I learned a lesson and I moved on, I realised it wasn't my fault.
I hope you will soon learn to not blame yourself for what happened.
You have to realise that you didn't deserve what happened, I doubt you'd have gone off with these guys had you remained fairly sober and not been spiked and there is nothing wrong with chatting to people you don't really know so well in a social place so I only see one error and that was leaving your drink unattended and I think nearly everyone has done that at some point or another. I got spiked due to taking a drink from someone who I thought I knew well enough and never considered that a possibility, luckily for me (I suppose) it was some kind of speed drug so all I did was danced all night and couldn't sleep when I got home, it wasn't some kind of date rape drug (which is why I feel lucky) I could blame myself for being too trusting but it happened I learned a lesson and I moved on, I realised it wasn't my fault.
I hope you will soon learn to not blame yourself for what happened.
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