Gym users - Ethedrin??
Discussion
I have been back at the gym for the last six months. I am bulking up quite nicely and using protein shakes to increase my protein uptake( very few calories in the mix).
However, no matter how much cardio i do , I cannot seem to shift those last couple of inches off my gut. My diet isn't fantastic due to working shifts ( body never settles into eating/sleeping pattern) but i have reduced carb intakes as much as possible.
People have said to use Ephedrine stacks - however Google tells me it is illegal, unless mixed with other things.
I have been told of these - ECA 30+ tablets
https://www.musclecharge.com/store/fat-loss-energy...
They are supposed to help shift that bit of fat by reducing appetite, increasing metabolism etc.
Thoughts and opinions wanted please.
However, no matter how much cardio i do , I cannot seem to shift those last couple of inches off my gut. My diet isn't fantastic due to working shifts ( body never settles into eating/sleeping pattern) but i have reduced carb intakes as much as possible.
People have said to use Ephedrine stacks - however Google tells me it is illegal, unless mixed with other things.
I have been told of these - ECA 30+ tablets
https://www.musclecharge.com/store/fat-loss-energy...
They are supposed to help shift that bit of fat by reducing appetite, increasing metabolism etc.
Thoughts and opinions wanted please.
Edited by gti tim on Saturday 18th July 12:34
I`d be avoiding these, they are no doubt effective, but a few little tweaks to your training and diet will have a similar effect, then you would think about these later on when your looking to get really really shredded.
When i start to trim down a little, i keep my diet the same at the start, get some HIT in, around 3 times a week, then slightly adjust my weights sessions, get some more volume into them. Currently doing 5,3,2,1 as the weeks progress, followed by a few pump sets. Press ups and sit ups at night. I find this to be the easiest way, no extra time spent training (i do cardio anyway) and i`m eating the same. And ive got plenty of things to adjust when i stop loosing fat.
When i start to trim down a little, i keep my diet the same at the start, get some HIT in, around 3 times a week, then slightly adjust my weights sessions, get some more volume into them. Currently doing 5,3,2,1 as the weeks progress, followed by a few pump sets. Press ups and sit ups at night. I find this to be the easiest way, no extra time spent training (i do cardio anyway) and i`m eating the same. And ive got plenty of things to adjust when i stop loosing fat.
I used ephedrine for a while - someone gave me some and told me that they help you exercise longer and more effectively. Result? My heart would be irregular and ridiculously fast. One my heart rate was 160bpm, 2 hours after my gym session and after a half hour sleep. I stopped taking it there and then. Wouldn't go near it again, but it'd be interesting to hear others' opinion.
Lucie W said:
I used ephedrine for a while - someone gave me some and told me that they help you exercise longer and more effectively. Result? My heart would be irregular and ridiculously fast. One my heart rate was 160bpm, 2 hours after my gym session and after a half hour sleep. I stopped taking it there and then. Wouldn't go near it again, but it'd be interesting to hear others' opinion.
No no and erm no!!! A lot of people combine it with caffeine and aspirin (Its called the stack), this is a VERY effective 'fat burner' as they have a synergestic effect when taken together. Although it only works for a maximum of two weeks as your body adapts to it and lessens its effects. BUT a major problem with this has been very serious side effects, chief one being cardiac related problems!! Ephedrine is banned by the IOC for a reason.....there are safer 'fat burners' out there but to be fair diet and exercise is the key to fat loss....Lucie W said:
I used ephedrine for a while - someone gave me some and told me that they help you exercise longer and more effectively. Result? My heart would be irregular and ridiculously fast. One my heart rate was 160bpm, 2 hours after my gym session and after a half hour sleep. I stopped taking it there and then. Wouldn't go near it again, but it'd be interesting to hear others' opinion.
I thought you were a medical student? I'm coming from a point of ignorance but none of this stacking sounds very clever....a good way to end in a whole world of cardiac trouble.
tonyvid said:
Lucie W said:
I used ephedrine for a while - someone gave me some and told me that they help you exercise longer and more effectively. Result? My heart would be irregular and ridiculously fast. One my heart rate was 160bpm, 2 hours after my gym session and after a half hour sleep. I stopped taking it there and then. Wouldn't go near it again, but it'd be interesting to hear others' opinion.
I thought you were a medical student? I'm coming from a point of ignorance but none of this stacking sounds very clever....a good way to end in a whole world of cardiac trouble.
Legal Stuff
Taken from Muscletalk.co.uk
Ephedrine hydrocholride is a Prescription Only Medicine product unless it meets the following exemption:
30mg maximum dose
60mg maximum daily dose
Having met these exemptions, the status is reduced from POM, to Pharmacy medicines (P) - which must be sold under the supervision of a pharmacist registered by the Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain (RPSGB). This product cannot therefore legally be supplied from a non-pharmacy outlet.
However, if you were to purchase a 'P' medicine from a non-pharmacy outlet then it would not be yourself as purchaser, who is breaking the law, but the supplier. Of course, by obtaining such a product from a non-regulated supplier, there can be no guarantees of the product contents or potency.
Not all countries regulate medicines in the same way as the UK, therefore you may be able to purchase ephedrine hydrochloride without the need for a pharmacist in another country should their own law allow such sales. It is possible to bring medicines into the UK for personal use, however please be aware that up to a three month supply is considered 'personal use', anything above this could be stopped and seized by customs as they may have concerns that the products may be subsequently sold or supplied to others (which would be illegal).
In regard to the regulations above, it appears that the situation is very similar to those for anabolic steroids:
Legal to posess for personal use; Illegal to sell or supply.
This is the law as it stands today. However, there have recently been proposals to re-classify ephedrine HCL's status from (P) to POM due largely to the Governments worry that Methamphetamine usage could spread in a similar fashion to that which has been witnessed in USA. Methamphetamine ("Crystal Meth" or "Ice") was reclassified as a Class A substance in January 2007 and there has been concern that ephedrine and pseudoephedrine is being isolated from well known cold remedies sold at the moment as (P) Phamacy Medicines. Once isolated, these substances are used in the manufacture of Methamphetamine.
Should this reclassification occur (which imo is very likely), this will remove the option to obtain ephedrine from such sources. As such, we will be left with the option of purchasing from an unauthorised supplier within the U.K., or purchasing from an (un)authorised supplier from overseas.
Taken from Muscletalk.co.uk
Ephedrine hydrocholride is a Prescription Only Medicine product unless it meets the following exemption:
30mg maximum dose
60mg maximum daily dose
Having met these exemptions, the status is reduced from POM, to Pharmacy medicines (P) - which must be sold under the supervision of a pharmacist registered by the Royal Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain (RPSGB). This product cannot therefore legally be supplied from a non-pharmacy outlet.
However, if you were to purchase a 'P' medicine from a non-pharmacy outlet then it would not be yourself as purchaser, who is breaking the law, but the supplier. Of course, by obtaining such a product from a non-regulated supplier, there can be no guarantees of the product contents or potency.
Not all countries regulate medicines in the same way as the UK, therefore you may be able to purchase ephedrine hydrochloride without the need for a pharmacist in another country should their own law allow such sales. It is possible to bring medicines into the UK for personal use, however please be aware that up to a three month supply is considered 'personal use', anything above this could be stopped and seized by customs as they may have concerns that the products may be subsequently sold or supplied to others (which would be illegal).
In regard to the regulations above, it appears that the situation is very similar to those for anabolic steroids:
Legal to posess for personal use; Illegal to sell or supply.
This is the law as it stands today. However, there have recently been proposals to re-classify ephedrine HCL's status from (P) to POM due largely to the Governments worry that Methamphetamine usage could spread in a similar fashion to that which has been witnessed in USA. Methamphetamine ("Crystal Meth" or "Ice") was reclassified as a Class A substance in January 2007 and there has been concern that ephedrine and pseudoephedrine is being isolated from well known cold remedies sold at the moment as (P) Phamacy Medicines. Once isolated, these substances are used in the manufacture of Methamphetamine.
Should this reclassification occur (which imo is very likely), this will remove the option to obtain ephedrine from such sources. As such, we will be left with the option of purchasing from an unauthorised supplier within the U.K., or purchasing from an (un)authorised supplier from overseas.
Usage
ECA = Ephedrine/Caffeine/Aspirin stack
Standard dosage would be:
Ephedrine 20-30mgs
Caffeine 200mg (equivalent to approx 2.5 cups of coffee)
Aspirin 75mg
the theoretical ratio is E:C:A=1:10:3
Ephedrine and Caffeine have been shown to work synergistically; that is, the total is greater than the sum of the parts ie. 1+1=3
They work TOGETHER to promote weight-loss, boost energy and enhance athletic performance. It's debatable as to the importance of aspirin in the grand scheme. It is included in the hope that it acts as a prostaglandin inhibitor and an enhancer of lipolytic activity. I believe it not to be an essential ingredient; indeed, many people are intolerant to Aspirin. Another thing worth noting is that ECA has some anti-catabolic properties, which means that we can retain some muscle even while cutting.
To give you an idea, eph is a central nervous system stimulant and, therefore, works in a similar way as Clenbuterol. However, eph increases your metabolism by about 3% whereas clen increases your metabolism by 5-10%. Although it may appear that eph is second rate when compared to Clen, it more than makes up for it when you consider the strong appetite suppressive qualities, something which is very important when exposed to calorie restriction.
It is recommended that users start their ECA stack by using just one dosing (as per above dosages) per day, either first thing in the morning 30minutes before breakfast, or 30minutes prior to their workout/cardio. Many find that this will provide them with plenty of stimulation and will negate the necessity to increase the frequency of dosages for maybe a week or more. In time, the user becomes more tolerant of the effects and will look to progress to 2 dosings per day. It is considered that 3 dosings per day is the maximum that a user should consume, with the last dose taken prior to 6pm to avoid sleep problems. Cycle length would normally be limited to 12 weeks, so the prospective user must give consideration to how long they will need to reach their goals. Should this exceed 12 weeks, then the ECA should be introduced later into the cutting regime, not immediately at the outset. I would then advise taking at least 12 weeks abstinence from ECA use to limit over-dependance problems.
As a first timer, you will experience a wired feeling, perhaps to the extent of being a bit "jumpy". This is normal, and gradually subsides. Heart rate will increase with many users conciously aware of this occurrence. Also, you will probably notice an increase in gym performance, especially during aerobic activity (cardio). It's worth pointing out that anyone with heart problems or high blood pressure should NOT use ephedrine or similar products.
In addition to pharmaceutical Ephedrine hydrochloride (hcl), there is also Mother Nature that we can turn to for essentially the same ECA stack:
HERBAL VERSIONS
The herbal form of ephedrine is Ma Huang. The plant is standardised to varying degrees so the user must calculate exactly how much eph is contained in the preparation. For example, MaHuang 335mg (6% ephedrine) is the equivalent of 20mg pure ephedrine. As such, one version isn’t "stronger than the other" as long as the quantities are respected. The only snag with herbal versions is that we don’t know what the other 90% of the herb is doing to out body!
Guarana Extract (22% caffeine) therefore 910mg of guarana is equivalent of 200mg caffeine.
Kola nut contains 20% caffeine
Lastly, White Willow Bark (15% salicin) is the equivalent of Aspirin.
Alternatively, visit Boots and ask for "Do Do Chesteze". Chesteze helps when you have a tight chest so u can tell the vendor that your chest isn’t too good. One chesteze contins 18.3mg ephedrine. it also contains theophylline. Some people react to theophylline so if you are using chesteze, always start at a low dose for the first 3 days to see how you will react.
Caffeine can be bought from various online retailers (or can be bought from chemists or your local supermarket in the form of ProPlus, though these work out more expensive than the online options. (each proplus pill contains 50mg caffeine)
Possible Side Effects
Anxiety, shaking, increased sweating, lightheadedness, dizziness, light headache, gastrointestinal distress, insomnia, irregular heartbeat, increased heart rate, heart palpitations, inreased blood pressure, stroke, seizures, psychosis etc..people who are easily depressed should be on a watch out because the eph will increase their depression. Increased sweating/heat production means you need to drink more water. Moreover, ephedrine can be addictive if taken for more than 6 months.
ECA = Ephedrine/Caffeine/Aspirin stack
Standard dosage would be:
Ephedrine 20-30mgs
Caffeine 200mg (equivalent to approx 2.5 cups of coffee)
Aspirin 75mg
the theoretical ratio is E:C:A=1:10:3
Ephedrine and Caffeine have been shown to work synergistically; that is, the total is greater than the sum of the parts ie. 1+1=3
They work TOGETHER to promote weight-loss, boost energy and enhance athletic performance. It's debatable as to the importance of aspirin in the grand scheme. It is included in the hope that it acts as a prostaglandin inhibitor and an enhancer of lipolytic activity. I believe it not to be an essential ingredient; indeed, many people are intolerant to Aspirin. Another thing worth noting is that ECA has some anti-catabolic properties, which means that we can retain some muscle even while cutting.
To give you an idea, eph is a central nervous system stimulant and, therefore, works in a similar way as Clenbuterol. However, eph increases your metabolism by about 3% whereas clen increases your metabolism by 5-10%. Although it may appear that eph is second rate when compared to Clen, it more than makes up for it when you consider the strong appetite suppressive qualities, something which is very important when exposed to calorie restriction.
It is recommended that users start their ECA stack by using just one dosing (as per above dosages) per day, either first thing in the morning 30minutes before breakfast, or 30minutes prior to their workout/cardio. Many find that this will provide them with plenty of stimulation and will negate the necessity to increase the frequency of dosages for maybe a week or more. In time, the user becomes more tolerant of the effects and will look to progress to 2 dosings per day. It is considered that 3 dosings per day is the maximum that a user should consume, with the last dose taken prior to 6pm to avoid sleep problems. Cycle length would normally be limited to 12 weeks, so the prospective user must give consideration to how long they will need to reach their goals. Should this exceed 12 weeks, then the ECA should be introduced later into the cutting regime, not immediately at the outset. I would then advise taking at least 12 weeks abstinence from ECA use to limit over-dependance problems.
As a first timer, you will experience a wired feeling, perhaps to the extent of being a bit "jumpy". This is normal, and gradually subsides. Heart rate will increase with many users conciously aware of this occurrence. Also, you will probably notice an increase in gym performance, especially during aerobic activity (cardio). It's worth pointing out that anyone with heart problems or high blood pressure should NOT use ephedrine or similar products.
In addition to pharmaceutical Ephedrine hydrochloride (hcl), there is also Mother Nature that we can turn to for essentially the same ECA stack:
HERBAL VERSIONS
The herbal form of ephedrine is Ma Huang. The plant is standardised to varying degrees so the user must calculate exactly how much eph is contained in the preparation. For example, MaHuang 335mg (6% ephedrine) is the equivalent of 20mg pure ephedrine. As such, one version isn’t "stronger than the other" as long as the quantities are respected. The only snag with herbal versions is that we don’t know what the other 90% of the herb is doing to out body!
Guarana Extract (22% caffeine) therefore 910mg of guarana is equivalent of 200mg caffeine.
Kola nut contains 20% caffeine
Lastly, White Willow Bark (15% salicin) is the equivalent of Aspirin.
Alternatively, visit Boots and ask for "Do Do Chesteze". Chesteze helps when you have a tight chest so u can tell the vendor that your chest isn’t too good. One chesteze contins 18.3mg ephedrine. it also contains theophylline. Some people react to theophylline so if you are using chesteze, always start at a low dose for the first 3 days to see how you will react.
Caffeine can be bought from various online retailers (or can be bought from chemists or your local supermarket in the form of ProPlus, though these work out more expensive than the online options. (each proplus pill contains 50mg caffeine)
Possible Side Effects
Anxiety, shaking, increased sweating, lightheadedness, dizziness, light headache, gastrointestinal distress, insomnia, irregular heartbeat, increased heart rate, heart palpitations, inreased blood pressure, stroke, seizures, psychosis etc..people who are easily depressed should be on a watch out because the eph will increase their depression. Increased sweating/heat production means you need to drink more water. Moreover, ephedrine can be addictive if taken for more than 6 months.
Edited by sebo on Tuesday 21st July 18:15
okay to save you guys messing about with eca, the one i'm talking about thats better than eca without the sides is called slim xtreme.....be very careful though because you take it and it lasts over 8 hours, it also completely obliterates your appetite so you have to force yourself to eat something...
As mentioned already, the original Ultimate Orange was absolutely mental. I took it about 10 years ago for a few months, along with a few other members of the rugby team.
It made you feel like Superman, no fatigue, no muscle pain and used to get huge gains on it each week.
Downside was the taste of the drink - used to struggle to keep it down and the buzz used to last all night - up most of the night staring at the ceiling plus increased heart rate. Stopped taking it when it was banned in America due to adverse effects.
It made you feel like Superman, no fatigue, no muscle pain and used to get huge gains on it each week.
Downside was the taste of the drink - used to struggle to keep it down and the buzz used to last all night - up most of the night staring at the ceiling plus increased heart rate. Stopped taking it when it was banned in America due to adverse effects.
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