Protein shakes and supplements
Discussion
Can anyone help me with the correct balance of protein, carbs etc I would need in my diet for weight training and general strength improvement. I am returning from a long injury (2+years) and so need to get my muscle mass up and my fat down. I used to just take a Protein shake in the morning and one after my workout with creatine tablets for a few weeks before a holiday, as I was told it will help you reteain water and therefore bulk up for the beach. Don't know if that's true though...
This time around I am a bit more serious though so want to get it right with regards to the corretc and healthy balance of protein, carbs, fat and vits and mins etc in my diet.
Can anyone tell me how much protein/carbs etc I need for muscle gain? Any reccomendations on other supplements to take that give good results? Please tell me the amounts too please e.g. "extra to your normal diet you need 100grams of protein a day, 50g of carbs etc so a shake then , another shake then etc." Are the all-in-one shakes like MaxiMuscle etc with all the added extras they boast about worth it? For that matter, what should one look for in a protein shake? All this egg white/non-egg whites/claims to be anabolic confuse the hell out of me!
Many thanks for the help guys.
This time around I am a bit more serious though so want to get it right with regards to the corretc and healthy balance of protein, carbs, fat and vits and mins etc in my diet.
Can anyone tell me how much protein/carbs etc I need for muscle gain? Any reccomendations on other supplements to take that give good results? Please tell me the amounts too please e.g. "extra to your normal diet you need 100grams of protein a day, 50g of carbs etc so a shake then , another shake then etc." Are the all-in-one shakes like MaxiMuscle etc with all the added extras they boast about worth it? For that matter, what should one look for in a protein shake? All this egg white/non-egg whites/claims to be anabolic confuse the hell out of me!
Many thanks for the help guys.
Go over to CNP's website. that will give you training and dietry advice.
http://www.cnpprofessional.co.uk/
http://www.cnpprofessional.co.uk/
What i am after is a laymans term guide to the various supplements supplmenting ther diet to assist my training.
What do i need to take take at when? Is a whey protein shake in the morning, another at snack time before a workout and an all in one shake afer a good way to do it? Whitch brands should they be?
What about Creatine, glucamine, vitamins and all the other stuff I dont know about. What brands or specifics should I be looking for on the packets and how do they help me.
I need reasonable explanations and reasons as to why I would take this, what effect would it have.
Someone please break it down to a begginer who needs help
What do i need to take take at when? Is a whey protein shake in the morning, another at snack time before a workout and an all in one shake afer a good way to do it? Whitch brands should they be?
What about Creatine, glucamine, vitamins and all the other stuff I dont know about. What brands or specifics should I be looking for on the packets and how do they help me.
I need reasonable explanations and reasons as to why I would take this, what effect would it have.
Someone please break it down to a begginer who needs help
to be honest i would go with hemp protein if you can afford it, purely on the basis that its good for you and has a healthy balance of everything you need, has to be sweetened with something though like stevia or vegetable juice and add some kind of low gi carb.....with whey there is the possibility of kidney issues, spots and then there is the effect of lactose on the stomach....
supplements are worseless without decent diet.....creatine may make your injury worse, depends what injury it is...plus its not going to bulk you up...a good lot of supplements to use might be drive, rpm, neovar, a fish oil tab, multivit like now foods adam, some for digestion like gut health and a topical fatburner like avant napalm...
if you were asking this on a bodybuilding board they probably would be wanting to know a lot more info....like for instance your present diet and whether your carb reactive, what type of body you have etc...
supplements are worseless without decent diet.....creatine may make your injury worse, depends what injury it is...plus its not going to bulk you up...a good lot of supplements to use might be drive, rpm, neovar, a fish oil tab, multivit like now foods adam, some for digestion like gut health and a topical fatburner like avant napalm...
if you were asking this on a bodybuilding board they probably would be wanting to know a lot more info....like for instance your present diet and whether your carb reactive, what type of body you have etc...
First of all supplements are just that supplements. but i would stick to the basics without going daft.
For me i didn't get on with Creatine i just found myself weeing a lot.
Get a good quality fast absorbing whey protein for when you've just done a hard workout, get a slower release protein and have this just before bed time.
Get a good multivit and some flaxseed oil and i also rated L Glutamine - i recovered a lot quicker when taking this. Above all sort your diet out and dont go over board with the booze but the biggest thing i can say is DONT overtrain, if your training to bulk up a bit and get strong train no more than 2-3 times a week and do not train a bodypart more than once a week. 50 minutes and i'm in - train then outta there i dont f**k about sat chatting i go and train and bugger off home.
Train hard, eat clean and often and get plenty of rest and then do your supplements and you'll do alright.
For me i didn't get on with Creatine i just found myself weeing a lot.
Get a good quality fast absorbing whey protein for when you've just done a hard workout, get a slower release protein and have this just before bed time.
Get a good multivit and some flaxseed oil and i also rated L Glutamine - i recovered a lot quicker when taking this. Above all sort your diet out and dont go over board with the booze but the biggest thing i can say is DONT overtrain, if your training to bulk up a bit and get strong train no more than 2-3 times a week and do not train a bodypart more than once a week. 50 minutes and i'm in - train then outta there i dont f**k about sat chatting i go and train and bugger off home.
Train hard, eat clean and often and get plenty of rest and then do your supplements and you'll do alright.
Just having read your post seriously go onto the forum of CNP's website and look at the post that Kerry Kayes has put - he has trained a lot of the top end bodybuilders including greats like Lou Ferringo and of course was Ricky Hattons nutrition and strength coach.
Check Scott Wrights transformation out (he used to be in Coronation St)
http://www.cnpprofessional.co.uk/scottwright
Check Scott Wrights transformation out (he used to be in Coronation St)
http://www.cnpprofessional.co.uk/scottwright
Thanks for the help.
Ok, present diet is good, balanced with lots of fresh fruit and vegetables. Protein comes from chicken,fish such as mackeral and lean gammon. Carbs are potatoes, rice and pasta. I take a multivit and cod liver oil daily. Im not allergic to carbs if thats what you meant by carb reactive?
I am 5'8" and I weigh about 10 stone (63kg) but before my injury I was 12 stone (76kg). I guess you would say I am short and stocky.
Before the injury I traind thus:
Monday - Back and triceps
Tuesday - Core and cardio
Wedbnesday - legs and shoulders
Thursday - Core and cardio
Friday - Chest and biceps
Weekend - rest
I would have a whey protein shake in the morning with breakfast, one before the gym and one after as well as lunch and dinner. Towards the end as I was going on holiday I started taking Creatine tablets too, although I wasn't using them from research I had done, stupidly, but from afew people saying it helps you retain water therfore makes you look bigger. I don't know if thats true but I was going on a muff hunt holiday so took the chance
Goals this time around - Put on muscle mass. My training schdule will probably include more strength and conditioning stuff but I will start with just weights and cardio first to get back in shape.
Any help from you guys will be most appreciated guys so thaks a lot.
Ok, present diet is good, balanced with lots of fresh fruit and vegetables. Protein comes from chicken,fish such as mackeral and lean gammon. Carbs are potatoes, rice and pasta. I take a multivit and cod liver oil daily. Im not allergic to carbs if thats what you meant by carb reactive?
I am 5'8" and I weigh about 10 stone (63kg) but before my injury I was 12 stone (76kg). I guess you would say I am short and stocky.
Before the injury I traind thus:
Monday - Back and triceps
Tuesday - Core and cardio
Wedbnesday - legs and shoulders
Thursday - Core and cardio
Friday - Chest and biceps
Weekend - rest
I would have a whey protein shake in the morning with breakfast, one before the gym and one after as well as lunch and dinner. Towards the end as I was going on holiday I started taking Creatine tablets too, although I wasn't using them from research I had done, stupidly, but from afew people saying it helps you retain water therfore makes you look bigger. I don't know if thats true but I was going on a muff hunt holiday so took the chance
Goals this time around - Put on muscle mass. My training schdule will probably include more strength and conditioning stuff but I will start with just weights and cardio first to get back in shape.
Any help from you guys will be most appreciated guys so thaks a lot.
we really do have a huge benefit with the internet for research into such matters now days....
from the usplabs site:
Carbohydrate Non-Responsive:
As the name suggests, individuals in this category have a little to no reaction to carbohydrates, and generally calories in general; in other words, the classic ‘hard-gainer’. The key point in being included in this category is a complete ‘non-reaction’, for all intensive purposes. Individuals in this category see very little residual adipose gain from an excess in calories, but very little muscle gain as well. Those of you who are Carb Non-Responders are most likely genetically thin, very lean, and generally need to consume well over 500 calories above maintenance, as is often suggested.
Carbohydrate Responsive:
Generally the individuals in this category have the reaction to carbohydrates, and calories in general, that most are jealous of. If you find yourself in this category, carbohydrates work highly in your favor, producing noticeable gains in strength, and muscular size with proper
exercise. While gross over-consumption may cause some residual adipose storage, for the most part individuals in this category are naturally muscularly developed, lean, and respond well to all types of training. Most often these individuals have been labeled ‘Mesomorphs’.
Carbohydrate Reactive:
The general characteristic for being included in this category is an unfavorable reaction to carbohydrates in general; essentially, this means one may or may not easily gain muscle, but adipose is discouragingly easy to gain.
There is however two sub-types in this category, Type I
and Type II.
• Type I Carb Reactives are those individuals who are naturally predisposed to fat gain, and have naturally been slightly over weight. These individuals may gain muscle easily as well, but need to be especially sensitive to the carbohydrate level in their diet.
• Type II Carb Reactives are similar to Carb Non-Responsives, save for the fact over consumption of carbohydrates can lead to what are known as ‘sugar-bellies’. These individuals classically label themselves as ‘skinny fat’, and need to be as sensitive to their carbohydrate intake as do Type I Carb Reactives.
Suggested Carbohydrate Sources:
This section is pretty self-explanatory, these are just some favorites of ours at USPlto cap-off the Manual:
Oats
Sweet Potatoes (Yams)
Whole Grain Bagels
White Rice
Brown Rice
Broccoli
Cauliflower
Bran Cereal
Wheat Bran
Oat Bran
Trace Carb Sources (peppers, carrots, other vegetables)
Waxy Maize Starch and Maltodextrin (for simple/complex mixture)
from the usplabs site:
Carbohydrate Non-Responsive:
As the name suggests, individuals in this category have a little to no reaction to carbohydrates, and generally calories in general; in other words, the classic ‘hard-gainer’. The key point in being included in this category is a complete ‘non-reaction’, for all intensive purposes. Individuals in this category see very little residual adipose gain from an excess in calories, but very little muscle gain as well. Those of you who are Carb Non-Responders are most likely genetically thin, very lean, and generally need to consume well over 500 calories above maintenance, as is often suggested.
Carbohydrate Responsive:
Generally the individuals in this category have the reaction to carbohydrates, and calories in general, that most are jealous of. If you find yourself in this category, carbohydrates work highly in your favor, producing noticeable gains in strength, and muscular size with proper
exercise. While gross over-consumption may cause some residual adipose storage, for the most part individuals in this category are naturally muscularly developed, lean, and respond well to all types of training. Most often these individuals have been labeled ‘Mesomorphs’.
Carbohydrate Reactive:
The general characteristic for being included in this category is an unfavorable reaction to carbohydrates in general; essentially, this means one may or may not easily gain muscle, but adipose is discouragingly easy to gain.
There is however two sub-types in this category, Type I
and Type II.
• Type I Carb Reactives are those individuals who are naturally predisposed to fat gain, and have naturally been slightly over weight. These individuals may gain muscle easily as well, but need to be especially sensitive to the carbohydrate level in their diet.
• Type II Carb Reactives are similar to Carb Non-Responsives, save for the fact over consumption of carbohydrates can lead to what are known as ‘sugar-bellies’. These individuals classically label themselves as ‘skinny fat’, and need to be as sensitive to their carbohydrate intake as do Type I Carb Reactives.
Suggested Carbohydrate Sources:
This section is pretty self-explanatory, these are just some favorites of ours at USPlto cap-off the Manual:
Oats
Sweet Potatoes (Yams)
Whole Grain Bagels
White Rice
Brown Rice
Broccoli
Cauliflower
Bran Cereal
Wheat Bran
Oat Bran
Trace Carb Sources (peppers, carrots, other vegetables)
Waxy Maize Starch and Maltodextrin (for simple/complex mixture)
forget steady state cardio unless your training for endurance events or your looking to get lean by doing it in a starved state first thing in the morning sipping a branched chain amino acids drink....
high intensity training on a cross trainer or something with 2 minutes as fast as you can go 1 minute as slow as you can go if you can handle it, this would give gains over cardio...
high intensity training on a cross trainer or something with 2 minutes as fast as you can go 1 minute as slow as you can go if you can handle it, this would give gains over cardio...
Very interesting Mc.
I think I am more Type 1 carb responsive. If I over eat I get a little belly, but that's about it. Mind you I've never really been totally inactive. But I do find it very hard to put on muscle, but then being of oriental descent, it is hard for me to do this.
My mate is Carb unresponsive, eats loads, drinks regularly, expercises a bit and is still thin as a rake!
I think I am more Type 1 carb responsive. If I over eat I get a little belly, but that's about it. Mind you I've never really been totally inactive. But I do find it very hard to put on muscle, but then being of oriental descent, it is hard for me to do this.
My mate is Carb unresponsive, eats loads, drinks regularly, expercises a bit and is still thin as a rake!
Some people dont half overcomplicate training and diet.
You dont need a lot of protein, about 150g a day will be plenty enough.
Make sure your getting a decent amount of carbs, i`d say 200-300 a day.
Make a note of your calories, if you start getting fat, drop them slightly, if you arnt gaining, increase them slightly. Calories dictate your weight change more than anything else.
With your training, stick to something like 5x5 on compounds, throw in the odd set of 3/2/1 for variety. This will give a good mixture of size and strength.
Stick to compounds to start with, leave the isolation until you get a good base. Deadlifts, squats, overhead press (strict and push press), bench press (normaly wide grip, and close grip), rows. Maybe throw in the odd pump set for bi`s and tri`s.
You dont need a lot of protein, about 150g a day will be plenty enough.
Make sure your getting a decent amount of carbs, i`d say 200-300 a day.
Make a note of your calories, if you start getting fat, drop them slightly, if you arnt gaining, increase them slightly. Calories dictate your weight change more than anything else.
With your training, stick to something like 5x5 on compounds, throw in the odd set of 3/2/1 for variety. This will give a good mixture of size and strength.
Stick to compounds to start with, leave the isolation until you get a good base. Deadlifts, squats, overhead press (strict and push press), bench press (normaly wide grip, and close grip), rows. Maybe throw in the odd pump set for bi`s and tri`s.
Wildfire said:
Very interesting Mc.
I think I am more Type 1 carb responsive. If I over eat I get a little belly, but that's about it. Mind you I've never really been totally inactive. But I do find it very hard to put on muscle, but then being of oriental descent, it is hard for me to do this.
My mate is Carb unresponsive, eats loads, drinks regularly, expercises a bit and is still thin as a rake!
i was the same, usplabs pslin and something called alpha burn by rpn helped me a great deal, both herbal...pslin makes your body use the carbs properly and alpha burn controls the appetite for crap foods......I think I am more Type 1 carb responsive. If I over eat I get a little belly, but that's about it. Mind you I've never really been totally inactive. But I do find it very hard to put on muscle, but then being of oriental descent, it is hard for me to do this.
My mate is Carb unresponsive, eats loads, drinks regularly, expercises a bit and is still thin as a rake!
I know the internets useful for research but I like to hear people's personal experiences and reccomendations.
Thanks guys, much appreciated.
Mclovin said:
high intensity training on a cross trainer or something with 2 minutes as fast as you can go 1 minute as slow as you can go if you can handle it, this would give gains over cardio...
Is that literally as slow as possible, slo-mo style? Mclovin said:
usplabs pslin and something called alpha burn by rpn helped me a great deal, both herbal...pslin makes your body use the carbs properly and alpha burn controls the appetite for crap foods......
Can you explain what these are?Dale said:
Stick to compounds to start with, leave the isolation until you get a good base. Deadlifts, squats, overhead press (strict and push press), bench press (normaly wide grip, and close grip), rows. Maybe throw in the odd pump set for bi`s and tri`s.
Thanks Dale, what do you mean by strict and push press? How ofte do you suggest training week?Thanks guys, much appreciated.
yes high intensity on a cross trainer as slow as you can and then as fast as you can several minutes each way, your sweat like crazy and do it sipping branched chains aminos so you dont lose muscle, get from myprotein if you can handle crap taste or other companies sell flavoured ones....obviously HIT must be fueled with a quality meal or protein with oats or something.....
usplabs pslin, can buy it from any supplement site in the UK i think....i took it before eating 50-80g of complex carbs and i was pumped for hours after, some kind of herbal insulin minimicker...
alpha burn is quite new and lots of uk supplements sites sell it but might be sold out now, its alpha yohimbine causes enhancement of motivation and focus and no anxiety, no vascular constriction, destroys appetite and improves adipostat controls the central signal to the body on how much caloric expenditure to allow....
forget squats if your recovering from injury man, go easy.....not sure if you said what injury if you had some kind of sports injury, leg or shoulder related then i would be very careful doing compound movements...
usplabs pslin, can buy it from any supplement site in the UK i think....i took it before eating 50-80g of complex carbs and i was pumped for hours after, some kind of herbal insulin minimicker...
alpha burn is quite new and lots of uk supplements sites sell it but might be sold out now, its alpha yohimbine causes enhancement of motivation and focus and no anxiety, no vascular constriction, destroys appetite and improves adipostat controls the central signal to the body on how much caloric expenditure to allow....
forget squats if your recovering from injury man, go easy.....not sure if you said what injury if you had some kind of sports injury, leg or shoulder related then i would be very careful doing compound movements...
Edited by Mclovin on Thursday 16th July 22:36
The real thing you are actually looking for is if you want the best try to find a protein source that is 'Undenatured' compared to 'Denatured' This means that the proteins (the best still containing native whey and also micellar casein) is 'cold formed' so that when the process takes away the heat it stops all the organisms breaking down from heat destruction. The only company in the world to do this and do it properly are 'CNP' And as far as i am aware they almost do it at a loss it is so expensive to do but they do it because they know it is by far the best product on the market...
http://www.cnpprofessional.co.uk/index.php
Have a read for yourself, taste and all that rubbish really shouldn't come into it, that is not the reason you are supplementing.
http://www.cnpprofessional.co.uk/index.php
Have a read for yourself, taste and all that rubbish really shouldn't come into it, that is not the reason you are supplementing.
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