H&S / Lifting Question
Discussion
Damned if I know which forum this belongs in now so up to you mods..
Where I work we have no lifts, and are sometimes required to "somehow" get bloody large/heavy bits of equipment between floors.
There is often only a single flight of stairs and the stairs are usually either too narrow, or have lots of "U" or "L" bends that make it almost impossible for two people to carry said equipment in anything other than "one walks forwards, one walks backwards" style, which seems to be totally against all the H&S and lifting guidelines that I've ever seen when you're talking 50kg bits of kit.
I don't know if the company has a Stair Crawler, but even if it did, given the stairs layout I'm not convinced it could maneuver up/down the stairs.
What do you do when the company you work for has, as any company does, lots of H&S regs and policies but in grim reality you're faced with a situation where a bit of kit has to go between A and B and it aint going to walk itself there?
I should add I'm not one of these "It's against my rights" people who moans at being asked to do a bit of manual lifting, this is heavy kit and if for example I did myself some injury trying to deal with it I'm guessing that a) the company would be screwed without me for a few weeks/months (not big-headed, I do a pretty unique role) and b) I'd probably have a field day in court if was that sort of person.
Where I work we have no lifts, and are sometimes required to "somehow" get bloody large/heavy bits of equipment between floors.
There is often only a single flight of stairs and the stairs are usually either too narrow, or have lots of "U" or "L" bends that make it almost impossible for two people to carry said equipment in anything other than "one walks forwards, one walks backwards" style, which seems to be totally against all the H&S and lifting guidelines that I've ever seen when you're talking 50kg bits of kit.
I don't know if the company has a Stair Crawler, but even if it did, given the stairs layout I'm not convinced it could maneuver up/down the stairs.
What do you do when the company you work for has, as any company does, lots of H&S regs and policies but in grim reality you're faced with a situation where a bit of kit has to go between A and B and it aint going to walk itself there?
I should add I'm not one of these "It's against my rights" people who moans at being asked to do a bit of manual lifting, this is heavy kit and if for example I did myself some injury trying to deal with it I'm guessing that a) the company would be screwed without me for a few weeks/months (not big-headed, I do a pretty unique role) and b) I'd probably have a field day in court if was that sort of person.
Yeah, they should have done a specific Risk Assessment for that particular job, and if they were hot, you should have been shown or trained in that assessment.... I'm guessing they have not 
This bit of kit, does it NEED to go upstairs, or can they rethink their layouts
This bit of kit, does it NEED to go upstairs, or can they rethink their layouts
Edited by missdiane on Thursday 23 April 18:39
Ganglandboss said:
What do you think is the safest way to do it? Can you eliminate or reduce the need to move the kit?
I would imagine some sort of stair crawler - that's the easy part, the issue is the ones I've seen tend to need to lie at such an angle that on narrow/tight stairs they can't actually turn/maneuver on the landings.Oh and it's still 50kg or so to get up and down some stairs which implies a battery powered one and they're damned heavy too.
It's the delicious irony of "Health and Safety", to do it "Safely" takes so long you just get on and do it rightly or wrongly most of the time.
paddyhasneeds said:
Ganglandboss said:
What do you think is the safest way to do it? Can you eliminate or reduce the need to move the kit?
I would imagine some sort of stair crawler - that's the easy part, the issue is the ones I've seen tend to need to lie at such an angle that on narrow/tight stairs they can't actually turn/maneuver on the landings.Oh and it's still 50kg or so to get up and down some stairs which implies a battery powered one and they're damned heavy too.
It's the delicious irony of "Health and Safety", to do it "Safely" takes so long you just get on and do it rightly or wrongly most of the time.
pies said:
Ganglandboss said:
What do you think is the safest way to do it? Can you eliminate or reduce the need to move the kit?
Not his decision,you have to work to the risk assessment and method statement.If you dont and get injured toughGanglandboss said:
How many flights of stairs are there? Is a lifting beam at the top feasable? It is difficult to suggest anything without being familiar with the building TBH.
There are lots of buildings, not all are the same so a total mix.Best "average" example I can think of is your typical high street shop or McDonalds with 2 floors.
Ganglandboss said:
pies said:
Ganglandboss said:
What do you think is the safest way to do it? Can you eliminate or reduce the need to move the kit?
Not his decision,you have to work to the risk assessment and method statement.If you dont and get injured toughI don't recall much in the way of H&S paperwork, though I've been there a while so it could be something that got signed years back.
I suspect part of the problem is that if, for arguments sakes, you're a Welder, it's fairly obvious what you're likely to be doing, and where.
On the other hand if part of your job is procuring and "somehow" getting different weights and sizes of kits around the workplace it's a bit less clear cut as there are almost infinite possibilities.
I was waiting for the phrase "man up" to appear - fair point if that's your view each to their own, but if I "man up" and drop the thing on my foot, or let go and one of my colleagues falls down the stairs with said object propelling him because we didn't want to be perceived as anything less than manly men, then it's not worked out so well has it?
I suspect part of the problem is that if, for arguments sakes, you're a Welder, it's fairly obvious what you're likely to be doing, and where.
On the other hand if part of your job is procuring and "somehow" getting different weights and sizes of kits around the workplace it's a bit less clear cut as there are almost infinite possibilities.
I was waiting for the phrase "man up" to appear - fair point if that's your view each to their own, but if I "man up" and drop the thing on my foot, or let go and one of my colleagues falls down the stairs with said object propelling him because we didn't want to be perceived as anything less than manly men, then it's not worked out so well has it?
paddyhasneeds said:
I don't recall much in the way of H&S paperwork, though I've been there a while so it could be something that got signed years back.
You need to ask to see it. A risk assessment and method statement is not a bit of paper you sign so you cannot sue your employer; it is a working document that tells you what the risks are and how to minimise their impact. You need to speak to your employer about your concerns.I used to deliver kegs of beer for a living, they started at 53Kg and went up to 125Kg.
The company was quite hot at telling us to use dump mats and not lift them from the lorry, to use ropes to guide them down and such but when presented with a windy little staircase you just have to "man up" and carry it down yourself.
I myself am a small man, I weigh less than 9 stone and am oompa-loompa like in stature, however I managed to get used to lifting and controlling that amount of weight and by the time I'd been there a year could press a 65Kg barrel over my head (I was still respectful of the 125Kgs though as one knocked me over like a skittle and chipped my elbow)
My point being that provided the company get you the correct equipment (electric trucks are unnecessary and unreliable) and training you'll be fine. I'm sure if you raise the subject of risk assessments you'll get some improvements!
The company was quite hot at telling us to use dump mats and not lift them from the lorry, to use ropes to guide them down and such but when presented with a windy little staircase you just have to "man up" and carry it down yourself.
I myself am a small man, I weigh less than 9 stone and am oompa-loompa like in stature, however I managed to get used to lifting and controlling that amount of weight and by the time I'd been there a year could press a 65Kg barrel over my head (I was still respectful of the 125Kgs though as one knocked me over like a skittle and chipped my elbow)
My point being that provided the company get you the correct equipment (electric trucks are unnecessary and unreliable) and training you'll be fine. I'm sure if you raise the subject of risk assessments you'll get some improvements!
freecar said:
I used to deliver kegs of beer for a living, they started at 53Kg and went up to 125Kg.
The company was quite hot at telling us to use dump mats and not lift them from the lorry, to use ropes to guide them down and such but when presented with a windy little staircase you just have to "man up" and carry it down yourself.
I myself am a small man, I weigh less than 9 stone and am oompa-loompa like in stature, however I managed to get used to lifting and controlling that amount of weight and by the time I'd been there a year could press a 65Kg barrel over my head (I was still respectful of the 125Kgs though as one knocked me over like a skittle and chipped my elbow)
My point being that provided the company get you the correct equipment (electric trucks are unnecessary and unreliable) and training you'll be fine. I'm sure if you raise the subject of risk assessments you'll get some improvements!
Like the midget says, stop being a girl.The company was quite hot at telling us to use dump mats and not lift them from the lorry, to use ropes to guide them down and such but when presented with a windy little staircase you just have to "man up" and carry it down yourself.
I myself am a small man, I weigh less than 9 stone and am oompa-loompa like in stature, however I managed to get used to lifting and controlling that amount of weight and by the time I'd been there a year could press a 65Kg barrel over my head (I was still respectful of the 125Kgs though as one knocked me over like a skittle and chipped my elbow)
My point being that provided the company get you the correct equipment (electric trucks are unnecessary and unreliable) and training you'll be fine. I'm sure if you raise the subject of risk assessments you'll get some improvements!
The first question would be is it in your Job description to carry out this task.
If it is, then in conjuction with your employer you both need to come up with a risk assesment as to how the building copes with this requirement. On a day to day basis you are responsible for how you lift and what you lift. It's probable that each piece of kit you lift needs to be risk assessed by you. This doesn't mean lots of paperwork or forms, this can be a simple mental assessment which is perfectly legal and correct. All you need to do is think about how you're going to do the job. I'll stress again this is your responsability not the employers. Also you should have manual handling training, this is your employers responsability to ensure you are trained. There are certain things that you can look into straight away that will help.
For example for men the maximum lift is 25kg, for a woman 15kg. So if you have a piece of kit at 50 kg then that becomes a 2 man lift or a 4 woman lift (equality eh!!).
However this is all dependant on the type of lift and whether or not you need to twist/turn, if there are handholds, is kit a weird and strange shape. The example being something weighs 75kg, but is a strange shape with no handholds, it might be assessed that only 2 people need can carry the kit safely. Also can you get lifting equipment around it, does it need to be on a trolly etc.
The bottom line is that it's a joint responsability between employers and employees. It mostly comes down to common sense, and as soon as we get back to this then we'll all be better off.(Sorry if that sounds abit bullish, not ment to be:-)
If it is, then in conjuction with your employer you both need to come up with a risk assesment as to how the building copes with this requirement. On a day to day basis you are responsible for how you lift and what you lift. It's probable that each piece of kit you lift needs to be risk assessed by you. This doesn't mean lots of paperwork or forms, this can be a simple mental assessment which is perfectly legal and correct. All you need to do is think about how you're going to do the job. I'll stress again this is your responsability not the employers. Also you should have manual handling training, this is your employers responsability to ensure you are trained. There are certain things that you can look into straight away that will help.
For example for men the maximum lift is 25kg, for a woman 15kg. So if you have a piece of kit at 50 kg then that becomes a 2 man lift or a 4 woman lift (equality eh!!).
However this is all dependant on the type of lift and whether or not you need to twist/turn, if there are handholds, is kit a weird and strange shape. The example being something weighs 75kg, but is a strange shape with no handholds, it might be assessed that only 2 people need can carry the kit safely. Also can you get lifting equipment around it, does it need to be on a trolly etc.
The bottom line is that it's a joint responsability between employers and employees. It mostly comes down to common sense, and as soon as we get back to this then we'll all be better off.(Sorry if that sounds abit bullish, not ment to be:-)
Loaded1me said:
The first question would be is it in your Job description to carry out this task.
If it is, then in conjuction with your employer you both need to come up with a risk assesment as to how the building copes with this requirement. On a day to day basis you are responsible for how you lift and what you lift. It's probable that each piece of kit you lift needs to be risk assessed by you. This doesn't mean lots of paperwork or forms, this can be a simple mental assessment which is perfectly legal and correct. All you need to do is think about how you're going to do the job. I'll stress again this is your responsability not the employers. Also you should have manual handling training, this is your employers responsability to ensure you are trained. There are certain things that you can look into straight away that will help.
For example for men the maximum lift is 25kg, for a woman 15kg. So if you have a piece of kit at 50 kg then that becomes a 2 man lift or a 4 woman lift (equality eh!!).
However this is all dependant on the type of lift and whether or not you need to twist/turn, if there are handholds, is kit a weird and strange shape. The example being something weighs 75kg, but is a strange shape with no handholds, it might be assessed that only 2 people need can carry the kit safely. Also can you get lifting equipment around it, does it need to be on a trolly etc.
The bottom line is that it's a joint responsability between employers and employees. It mostly comes down to common sense, and as soon as we get back to this then we'll all be better off.(Sorry if that sounds abit bullish, not ment to be:-)
^If it is, then in conjuction with your employer you both need to come up with a risk assesment as to how the building copes with this requirement. On a day to day basis you are responsible for how you lift and what you lift. It's probable that each piece of kit you lift needs to be risk assessed by you. This doesn't mean lots of paperwork or forms, this can be a simple mental assessment which is perfectly legal and correct. All you need to do is think about how you're going to do the job. I'll stress again this is your responsability not the employers. Also you should have manual handling training, this is your employers responsability to ensure you are trained. There are certain things that you can look into straight away that will help.
For example for men the maximum lift is 25kg, for a woman 15kg. So if you have a piece of kit at 50 kg then that becomes a 2 man lift or a 4 woman lift (equality eh!!).
However this is all dependant on the type of lift and whether or not you need to twist/turn, if there are handholds, is kit a weird and strange shape. The example being something weighs 75kg, but is a strange shape with no handholds, it might be assessed that only 2 people need can carry the kit safely. Also can you get lifting equipment around it, does it need to be on a trolly etc.
The bottom line is that it's a joint responsability between employers and employees. It mostly comes down to common sense, and as soon as we get back to this then we'll all be better off.(Sorry if that sounds abit bullish, not ment to be:-)
Wot 'e said.
Here's a document that might help, http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/manualhandling....
Basically, if you feel that it's too heavy to SAFELY move/lift, then just tell that in a sensible way to your employer.
I work in the computer industry, and occasionally have to install items (batteries, power supplies etc) that weigh over 19kgs - which is ok until it gets above waist height, at which point I get somebody else to help.
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