Institutional lethargy in the NHS
Discussion
I want to talk to you today about institutional lethargy in the NHS. Have you experienced it? Does it exist?
Here's my experience. Each time I go to a hospital (as I have been quite a number of times in the past few weeks including a 3 night stay), I find that any process occurs at its natural pace without anyone chasing things or making any attempt to speed things up. Two examples.
(1) The day of my leaving hospital I was all ready to go. The doctor had come to see me and pronounced me fit to go. She did everything she had to including writing letters and prescriptions promptly. She left with prescriptions with the nurse. From there on, it took three hours for the drugs to come back from the pharmacy and each time we asked the nurse refused to chase anyone and blithely accepted that it would take as long as it would take and almost took offence when I suggested that the people further up the process should be chased by telephone or even, heaven forfend, in person.
(2) I am trying to get a copy of an MRI scan on CD. This should just be simply a question of identifying myself and then them producing a CD. Oh no, that would be far too easy. You have to fill in two forms and then wait up to 40 days. This in the name of investigations according to their interpretation of the Data Protection Act which allows them to take up to 40 days. Knowing the NHS, as I do, because it can take 40 days then it WILL take 40 days.
Rant over. Hope you liked it. Sorry if I've offended anyone that works in the NHS. Maybe I don't understand and there is a rational explanation for this angry perception of mine, I don't know.
Cheers!
James
Here's my experience. Each time I go to a hospital (as I have been quite a number of times in the past few weeks including a 3 night stay), I find that any process occurs at its natural pace without anyone chasing things or making any attempt to speed things up. Two examples.
(1) The day of my leaving hospital I was all ready to go. The doctor had come to see me and pronounced me fit to go. She did everything she had to including writing letters and prescriptions promptly. She left with prescriptions with the nurse. From there on, it took three hours for the drugs to come back from the pharmacy and each time we asked the nurse refused to chase anyone and blithely accepted that it would take as long as it would take and almost took offence when I suggested that the people further up the process should be chased by telephone or even, heaven forfend, in person.
(2) I am trying to get a copy of an MRI scan on CD. This should just be simply a question of identifying myself and then them producing a CD. Oh no, that would be far too easy. You have to fill in two forms and then wait up to 40 days. This in the name of investigations according to their interpretation of the Data Protection Act which allows them to take up to 40 days. Knowing the NHS, as I do, because it can take 40 days then it WILL take 40 days.
Rant over. Hope you liked it. Sorry if I've offended anyone that works in the NHS. Maybe I don't understand and there is a rational explanation for this angry perception of mine, I don't know.
Cheers!
James
Has the same problem waiting for prescription to come from the pharmacy when my son was discharged from the hospital. 4 feckin hours !! The otherwise helpful staff/nurses were either reluctant or unwilling to chase. It wasn't still my oh threatned to discharge him herself that it appeared. ( he did already have some of the medication at home anyway )
Edited by Scotfox on Wednesday 22 April 14:27
Write a complaint rather than moaning on the internet. They'll not change if they don't think it's a problem.
Point one could have a good reason for it. Might be that after rounds some patients on the ward have to be fed before being medicated, so rather than the pharmacist coming solely for you they were coming at the best time for the entire rest of the ward.
At a lot of hospitals patients can just go and pick up prescriptions from the on-site pharmacy. Maybe that's not the case where you were, did you ask if it was possible?
If it was something relatively minor it could have been picked up from any chemists, no?
Point 2 you could always bang an FOI in and you would get it within 20 days. Make sure if you do that you clearly state the records relate to you.
Or you can normally fork out for a full set of notes at about £25 that you get pretty much on the spot.
Point one could have a good reason for it. Might be that after rounds some patients on the ward have to be fed before being medicated, so rather than the pharmacist coming solely for you they were coming at the best time for the entire rest of the ward.
At a lot of hospitals patients can just go and pick up prescriptions from the on-site pharmacy. Maybe that's not the case where you were, did you ask if it was possible?
If it was something relatively minor it could have been picked up from any chemists, no?
Point 2 you could always bang an FOI in and you would get it within 20 days. Make sure if you do that you clearly state the records relate to you.
Or you can normally fork out for a full set of notes at about £25 that you get pretty much on the spot.
BigAlinEmbra said:
Write a complaint rather than moaning on the internet. They'll not change if they don't think it's a problem.
Point one could have a good reason for it. Might be that after rounds some patients on the ward have to be fed before being medicated, so rather than the pharmacist coming solely for you they were coming at the best time for the entire rest of the ward.
At a lot of hospitals patients can just go and pick up prescriptions from the on-site pharmacy. Maybe that's not the case where you were, did you ask if it was possible?
If it was something relatively minor it could have been picked up from any chemists, no?
Point 2 you could always bang an FOI in and you would get it within 20 days. Make sure if you do that you clearly state the records relate to you.
Or you can normally fork out for a full set of notes at about £25 that you get pretty much on the spot.
Whilst constructive in its intent, this post is naive. You achieve precisely nothing by complaining about something that is clearly institutional. Yes, I did ask if it was possible to collect it myself and, no, it was not possible to get the prescription from a local chemist because it was not something minor. You don't pay for prescription in hospital but you do elsewhere.Point one could have a good reason for it. Might be that after rounds some patients on the ward have to be fed before being medicated, so rather than the pharmacist coming solely for you they were coming at the best time for the entire rest of the ward.
At a lot of hospitals patients can just go and pick up prescriptions from the on-site pharmacy. Maybe that's not the case where you were, did you ask if it was possible?
If it was something relatively minor it could have been picked up from any chemists, no?
Point 2 you could always bang an FOI in and you would get it within 20 days. Make sure if you do that you clearly state the records relate to you.
Or you can normally fork out for a full set of notes at about £25 that you get pretty much on the spot.
You can not get the records on the spot, believe me. This despite, my arrogant belief that I can get blood of a stone; even I have had to admit that I am up against a monster that is far too big. You can't get anything from the NHS on the spot!
I recall walking into A&E with a burst abcess once, waiting 3 hours to get through the door (bearing in mind this was 10am on a weekday...) then laying in a cubicle in a gown for a further 7 hours to wait for a doctor to come and clean it up and tell me it was fine. Then another hour waiting for my prescription... 11 hours to check and wipe an abcess and give me some drugs FFS...
I've learnt that you have to make out things are worse than they are and make a bit of noise to make things happen, waiting patiently and politely doesn't get you anywhere with the NHS...
I've learnt that you have to make out things are worse than they are and make a bit of noise to make things happen, waiting patiently and politely doesn't get you anywhere with the NHS...
bazking69 said:
I recall walking into A&E with a burst abcess once, waiting 3 hours to get through the door (bearing in mind this was 10am on a weekday...) then laying in a cubicle in a gown for a further 7 hours to wait for a doctor to come and clean it up and tell me it was fine. Then another hour waiting for my prescription... 11 hours to check and wipe an abcess and give me some drugs FFS...
I've learnt that you have to make out things are worse than they are and make a bit of noise to make things happen, waiting patiently and politely doesn't get you anywhere with the NHS...
Imaging working in that enviromnment the whole time....I've learnt that you have to make out things are worse than they are and make a bit of noise to make things happen, waiting patiently and politely doesn't get you anywhere with the NHS...
I have just got out of hospital after having had a heart attack last Thurs. 46, fit, maybe 5 kg overweight, don't smoke and might have a beer or 2 in the evenings but hitting the gym 4 times a week. Sorry just felt that I had to justify my health there.
Anyhow, the ambulance arrived within 10 mins, the crew were great and I was taken straight to resuss in A&E. Spent a while with nurses and a doc looking after me until a Cardio guy turned up and threw doubt on me having had a heart attack because I did not fit the profile, which I thankfully agreed with.
A cardiac arrest patient then came in so my trolley and myself along with drip and ECG were pushed in to the general A&E area where I was forgotten about for about 3 hours. I was dying for a pee and the ECG alarm kept going off because my heart rate was getting very low but no one would come over to me.
Eventually, about 3am, I was wheeled up to a ward and started on a regime of drugs.
I saw a junior doc a few times and a blood test was taken around 6am.
Around lunchtime I was told that I would be going home but just had to be tested on a treadmill first.
I was just about to start when a phone call stopped the nurses and we were told that my blood results showed that I had had a heart attack.
Talk about getting my hopes up.
A angiogram was booked immediately but could not go ahead as there were no Cardio beds and as the angiogram lot would soon be going home for the weekend I would have to face a 2 day wait.
Thankfully a bed was found at 5pm. This was Friday.
Blockages in my coronary arteries were found but as one was too small to stent and the other was 30% blocked it was decided to treat with medication.
I did not see a Doctor till Mon afternoon who was more concerned with the bruising around my nether regions caused by the angiogram so it was decided that I should stay another day.
After asking the nurses I saw the same Doc 24 hours later for all of 30 secs who sent me off for a ultrasound, not of my heart but of the wound caused by the catheter. This was ok and suddenly the wheels moved very fast and within an hour I had my meds and a discharge letter and then was out.
BUT I STILL WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN A DOC TO DISCUSS MY PARTICULAR CASE.
I'm now at home and taking instructions from the booklets that they gave me but may be aimed at someone a lot older and sicker than I feel.
I'm worried and a little scared and it would help greatly if I could of had 5 mins of a Cardio Doc's time.
Having said that, I can only praise the nursing staff on both the wards that I was on, who have a very hard job but the admin of the hospital is shocking and it seems that once you are through the hell of A&E the system seems reluctant to speed you to recovery in order to free up a much needed bed.
I have seen this with our 3 children being born and my wife stuck in hospital at least 2 days longer than she needed to as the Doctors that could discharge her never turned up or it was the weekend.
Sorry for the rambling post but it helps to write it all down.
Cheers.
PS. Considering that I now have to be on a very strict diet it made me laugh that the hospital food is so bad and unhealthy. The first meal offered to me was battered haddock and chips and the last one I had was sweet and sour pork. I refused the cheese and biscuits and the sweet pies with loads of custard but could not resist the biscuits and hot chocolate just before lights out.
Alas now that my wife is in charge its all beans/pulses/rye bread/fruit/juice/greens but al least I get a glass of red a day.
Anyhow, the ambulance arrived within 10 mins, the crew were great and I was taken straight to resuss in A&E. Spent a while with nurses and a doc looking after me until a Cardio guy turned up and threw doubt on me having had a heart attack because I did not fit the profile, which I thankfully agreed with.
A cardiac arrest patient then came in so my trolley and myself along with drip and ECG were pushed in to the general A&E area where I was forgotten about for about 3 hours. I was dying for a pee and the ECG alarm kept going off because my heart rate was getting very low but no one would come over to me.
Eventually, about 3am, I was wheeled up to a ward and started on a regime of drugs.
I saw a junior doc a few times and a blood test was taken around 6am.
Around lunchtime I was told that I would be going home but just had to be tested on a treadmill first.
I was just about to start when a phone call stopped the nurses and we were told that my blood results showed that I had had a heart attack.
Talk about getting my hopes up.
A angiogram was booked immediately but could not go ahead as there were no Cardio beds and as the angiogram lot would soon be going home for the weekend I would have to face a 2 day wait.
Thankfully a bed was found at 5pm. This was Friday.
Blockages in my coronary arteries were found but as one was too small to stent and the other was 30% blocked it was decided to treat with medication.
I did not see a Doctor till Mon afternoon who was more concerned with the bruising around my nether regions caused by the angiogram so it was decided that I should stay another day.
After asking the nurses I saw the same Doc 24 hours later for all of 30 secs who sent me off for a ultrasound, not of my heart but of the wound caused by the catheter. This was ok and suddenly the wheels moved very fast and within an hour I had my meds and a discharge letter and then was out.
BUT I STILL WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN A DOC TO DISCUSS MY PARTICULAR CASE.
I'm now at home and taking instructions from the booklets that they gave me but may be aimed at someone a lot older and sicker than I feel.
I'm worried and a little scared and it would help greatly if I could of had 5 mins of a Cardio Doc's time.
Having said that, I can only praise the nursing staff on both the wards that I was on, who have a very hard job but the admin of the hospital is shocking and it seems that once you are through the hell of A&E the system seems reluctant to speed you to recovery in order to free up a much needed bed.
I have seen this with our 3 children being born and my wife stuck in hospital at least 2 days longer than she needed to as the Doctors that could discharge her never turned up or it was the weekend.
Sorry for the rambling post but it helps to write it all down.
Cheers.
PS. Considering that I now have to be on a very strict diet it made me laugh that the hospital food is so bad and unhealthy. The first meal offered to me was battered haddock and chips and the last one I had was sweet and sour pork. I refused the cheese and biscuits and the sweet pies with loads of custard but could not resist the biscuits and hot chocolate just before lights out.
Alas now that my wife is in charge its all beans/pulses/rye bread/fruit/juice/greens but al least I get a glass of red a day.
Edited by croyde on Thursday 23 April 14:14
Edited by croyde on Thursday 23 April 14:15
The_Doc said:
bazking69 said:
I recall walking into A&E with a burst abcess once, waiting 3 hours to get through the door (bearing in mind this was 10am on a weekday...) then laying in a cubicle in a gown for a further 7 hours to wait for a doctor to come and clean it up and tell me it was fine. Then another hour waiting for my prescription... 11 hours to check and wipe an abcess and give me some drugs FFS...
I've learnt that you have to make out things are worse than they are and make a bit of noise to make things happen, waiting patiently and politely doesn't get you anywhere with the NHS...
Imaging working in that enviromnment the whole time....I've learnt that you have to make out things are worse than they are and make a bit of noise to make things happen, waiting patiently and politely doesn't get you anywhere with the NHS...
After 11 hours of waiting half naked in a crispy NHS gown for an inspection and professional opinion and some drugs I could have got at my doctors, I hope you can see why I was and still am thoroughly pissed with the experience. Hours on end without anyone keeping me informed.
I was fobbed of in a similar manner when my missus had gall bladder stones. It wasn't until I lost my cool and had a rant at someone that things magically started happening quickly....
I feel sorry for you guys honestly I do, but you have to look after number one, and if that means making some noise to get some progress and treatment then so be it.
Paul Dishman said:
Deva Link said:
Pharmacies are legendary in the NHS. Apparently it's a very stressful job and the people that do it are usually incredibly stroppy. Other hospital staff are terrified of them.
Really? New one on me!
Merc fan said:
BigAlinEmbra said:
Write a complaint rather than moaning on the internet. They'll not change if they don't think it's a problem.
Point one could have a good reason for it. Might be that after rounds some patients on the ward have to be fed before being medicated, so rather than the pharmacist coming solely for you they were coming at the best time for the entire rest of the ward.
At a lot of hospitals patients can just go and pick up prescriptions from the on-site pharmacy. Maybe that's not the case where you were, did you ask if it was possible?
If it was something relatively minor it could have been picked up from any chemists, no?
Point 2 you could always bang an FOI in and you would get it within 20 days. Make sure if you do that you clearly state the records relate to you.
Or you can normally fork out for a full set of notes at about £25 that you get pretty much on the spot.
Whilst constructive in its intent, this post is naive. You achieve precisely nothing by complaining about something that is clearly institutional. Yes, I did ask if it was possible to collect it myself and, no, it was not possible to get the prescription from a local chemist because it was not something minor. You don't pay for prescription in hospital but you do elsewhere.Point one could have a good reason for it. Might be that after rounds some patients on the ward have to be fed before being medicated, so rather than the pharmacist coming solely for you they were coming at the best time for the entire rest of the ward.
At a lot of hospitals patients can just go and pick up prescriptions from the on-site pharmacy. Maybe that's not the case where you were, did you ask if it was possible?
If it was something relatively minor it could have been picked up from any chemists, no?
Point 2 you could always bang an FOI in and you would get it within 20 days. Make sure if you do that you clearly state the records relate to you.
Or you can normally fork out for a full set of notes at about £25 that you get pretty much on the spot.
You can not get the records on the spot, believe me. This despite, my arrogant belief that I can get blood of a stone; even I have had to admit that I am up against a monster that is far too big. You can't get anything from the NHS on the spot!
Have you ever complained about the NHS? How do you know nothing happens? Have you had a written complaint rejected? If not, how do you know nothing happens? I can assure that formal complaints are taken very seriously. Whereas verbal complaints, or b
hing on the internet...Well....
Your point about paying for prescriptions in chemists but not in hospitals seems nonsensical.
A fiver for 4hrs of your time? Really? It's worth that little?
BigAlinEmbra said:
Merc fan said:
BigAlinEmbra said:
Write a complaint rather than moaning on the internet. They'll not change if they don't think it's a problem.
Point one could have a good reason for it. Might be that after rounds some patients on the ward have to be fed before being medicated, so rather than the pharmacist coming solely for you they were coming at the best time for the entire rest of the ward.
At a lot of hospitals patients can just go and pick up prescriptions from the on-site pharmacy. Maybe that's not the case where you were, did you ask if it was possible?
If it was something relatively minor it could have been picked up from any chemists, no?
Point 2 you could always bang an FOI in and you would get it within 20 days. Make sure if you do that you clearly state the records relate to you.
Or you can normally fork out for a full set of notes at about £25 that you get pretty much on the spot.
Whilst constructive in its intent, this post is naive. You achieve precisely nothing by complaining about something that is clearly institutional. Yes, I did ask if it was possible to collect it myself and, no, it was not possible to get the prescription from a local chemist because it was not something minor. You don't pay for prescription in hospital but you do elsewhere.Point one could have a good reason for it. Might be that after rounds some patients on the ward have to be fed before being medicated, so rather than the pharmacist coming solely for you they were coming at the best time for the entire rest of the ward.
At a lot of hospitals patients can just go and pick up prescriptions from the on-site pharmacy. Maybe that's not the case where you were, did you ask if it was possible?
If it was something relatively minor it could have been picked up from any chemists, no?
Point 2 you could always bang an FOI in and you would get it within 20 days. Make sure if you do that you clearly state the records relate to you.
Or you can normally fork out for a full set of notes at about £25 that you get pretty much on the spot.
You can not get the records on the spot, believe me. This despite, my arrogant belief that I can get blood of a stone; even I have had to admit that I am up against a monster that is far too big. You can't get anything from the NHS on the spot!
Have you ever complained about the NHS? How do you know nothing happens? Have you had a written complaint rejected? If not, how do you know nothing happens? I can assure that formal complaints are taken very seriously. Whereas verbal complaints, or b
hing on the internet...Well....
Your point about paying for prescriptions in chemists but not in hospitals seems nonsensical.
A fiver for 4hrs of your time? Really? It's worth that little?
Just for the record, the NHS prescription charge is £7.10 and not £5 and this applies to each drug prescribed. This would equate to £28.40 in my case. The thing is, you only know it was a four hour wait in restrospect so you can't weigh up the time versus money argument at the time, you sit there thinking "it's been an hour, it SURELY can't be much longer". See what I mean? 4 hours for a prescription? Really? Surely not that long? Really?
Edited by Merc fan on Sunday 26th April 10:21
The_Doc said:
Imagine working in the mire you very accurately describe...
Seconded!
I spent hours yesterday trying to chase prescription drugs. Would help if pharmacy answered the phone on a saturday!
Believe me it can be just as frustrating for front line staff. I'm guessing your encounter seemed reluctant to chase things up because they knew it makes little difference. I guess i'm still new enough to still believe it's worth a try!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Have you thought about a written complaint. Apparently it's amazing how receptive they are to written complaints! Just kidding.Keep up your enthusiasm and don't accept second rate service from your "colleagues". What service they provide is up to them, keep your standards high!
Deva Link said:
Paul Dishman said:
Deva Link said:
Pharmacies are legendary in the NHS. Apparently it's a very stressful job and the people that do it are usually incredibly stroppy. Other hospital staff are terrified of them.
Really? New one on me!Merc fan said:
[
Just for the record, the NHS prescription charge is £7.10 and not £5 and this applies to each drug prescribed. This would equate to £28.40 in my case. The thing is, you only know it was a four hour wait in restrospect so you can't weigh up the time versus money argument at the time, you sit there thinking "it's been an hour, it SURELY can't be much longer". See what I mean? 4 hours for a prescription? Really? Surely not that long? Really?
£7.20 since April 1st. I'd have wandered down to the pharmacy myself and picked it up rather than wait for it to be delivered back to the wardJust for the record, the NHS prescription charge is £7.10 and not £5 and this applies to each drug prescribed. This would equate to £28.40 in my case. The thing is, you only know it was a four hour wait in restrospect so you can't weigh up the time versus money argument at the time, you sit there thinking "it's been an hour, it SURELY can't be much longer". See what I mean? 4 hours for a prescription? Really? Surely not that long? Really?
Edited by Merc fan on Sunday 26th April 10:21
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