Blood tests from GP?
Discussion
I have a friend that's traveling to the US to have some cosmetic surgery and she's just received her info pack from the surgery. They've said they need a raft of blood tests drawn at least 3 weeks prior to surgery, meaning she's going to have to have them done here before departure.
Is this something that she can get from her NHS GP? She's rang the doctor's and they've told her that she'd have to make an appointment to see the GP to discuss it and that's going to take a few days. Just wondering whether anyone here knew the answer because if they won't do it, then she can get on straight away at looking at getting them done privately.
Is this something that she can get from her NHS GP? She's rang the doctor's and they've told her that she'd have to make an appointment to see the GP to discuss it and that's going to take a few days. Just wondering whether anyone here knew the answer because if they won't do it, then she can get on straight away at looking at getting them done privately.
uriel said:
I have a friend that's traveling to the US to have some cosmetic surgery and she's just received her info pack from the surgery. They've said they need a raft of blood tests drawn at least 3 weeks prior to surgery, meaning she's going to have to have them done here before departure.
Is this something that she can get from her NHS GP? She's rang the doctor's and they've told her that she'd have to make an appointment to see the GP to discuss it and that's going to take a few days. Just wondering whether anyone here knew the answer because if they won't do it, then she can get on straight away at looking at getting them done privately.
Could she ask to see a nurse or healthcare assistant to take the bloods at same local surgery? They always take my bloods for the diabetic clinic save waiting for a GP and they are ok with it. Then book a slot with a GP later on to review the results.Is this something that she can get from her NHS GP? She's rang the doctor's and they've told her that she'd have to make an appointment to see the GP to discuss it and that's going to take a few days. Just wondering whether anyone here knew the answer because if they won't do it, then she can get on straight away at looking at getting them done privately.
That's what I thought, but the receptionist insisted on an appointment to talk to the doctor about it. I can understand if they were to refuse since it's for cosmetic surgery that's (arguably) not a health matter and if she wants a nose job, then it's not the tax payer's job to fund it. But then I would argue it's more important to her than jabs for foreign travel etc.
Also, I didn't realise we now had a health sub-subforum. Could a kindly mod shift this thread, please?
Also, I didn't realise we now had a health sub-subforum. Could a kindly mod shift this thread, please?
Jasandjules said:
Just book an appointent to take bloods and I reckon she'll effectively just have to pay for them herself.
With luck a GP will be along shortly.
I hope they charge her. I'd not be happy my tax went on this. I'm sure it doesn't.With luck a GP will be along shortly.
As for foreign surgery..... ho ho ho, don't get me started !
It's a bit of a grey area, TBH. GPs have a duty to provide NHS care to all patients, including, but not exclusively, those people registered with the practice. NHS GPs are not allowed to make ANY charges to patients who are registered with them.
If the tests are in the best interests of the patient, a judgement call has to be made. A discussion on the justification of these particular tests should take place - the hospital in the US should probably be doing the tests, because their labs may have very different ranges of normal, and interpretation is at the discretion of the doctor in charge of the case. The GP cannot withold the results as they are part of the patient's medical records.
It is rather galling to have the NHS paying for non-essential stuff, but there are so many abuses of NHS privileges it's hard to know where to draw a line. Entitlement to NHS care for instance, depends purely on residence - if you are a U.K. citizen, pay taxes in to the U.K. revenue, lived and worked all your life in Britain, but you now live in a country with no reciprocal healthcare arrangements with the U.K. and spend less than 6 months in the U.K. you are NOT entitled to free NHS care.
if there is no clinical reason to justify the test, the GP could refuse, and suggest she has the tests done as part of the pre-op assessment in the USA. If a problem showed up in the tests, who should be the one to say the operation isn't going to happen? In my view it is the doctor in charge of the case, which emphatically is not the GP. But inevitably, the NHS will have to pick up any post-operative costs when she returns to Britain, her nose gets infected, becomes diseased and falls off, requiring months of reconstructive surgery at huge expense to the British taxpayer.
If the tests are in the best interests of the patient, a judgement call has to be made. A discussion on the justification of these particular tests should take place - the hospital in the US should probably be doing the tests, because their labs may have very different ranges of normal, and interpretation is at the discretion of the doctor in charge of the case. The GP cannot withold the results as they are part of the patient's medical records.
It is rather galling to have the NHS paying for non-essential stuff, but there are so many abuses of NHS privileges it's hard to know where to draw a line. Entitlement to NHS care for instance, depends purely on residence - if you are a U.K. citizen, pay taxes in to the U.K. revenue, lived and worked all your life in Britain, but you now live in a country with no reciprocal healthcare arrangements with the U.K. and spend less than 6 months in the U.K. you are NOT entitled to free NHS care.
if there is no clinical reason to justify the test, the GP could refuse, and suggest she has the tests done as part of the pre-op assessment in the USA. If a problem showed up in the tests, who should be the one to say the operation isn't going to happen? In my view it is the doctor in charge of the case, which emphatically is not the GP. But inevitably, the NHS will have to pick up any post-operative costs when she returns to Britain, her nose gets infected, becomes diseased and falls off, requiring months of reconstructive surgery at huge expense to the British taxpayer.
Nubbin said:
It's a bit of a grey area, TBH. GPs have a duty to provide NHS care to all patients, including, but not exclusively, those people registered with the practice. NHS GPs are not allowed to make ANY charges to patients who are registered with them.
If the tests are in the best interests of the patient, a judgement call has to be made. A discussion on the justification of these particular tests should take place - the hospital in the US should probably be doing the tests, because their labs may have very different ranges of normal, and interpretation is at the discretion of the doctor in charge of the case. The GP cannot withold the results as they are part of the patient's medical records.
It is rather galling to have the NHS paying for non-essential stuff, but there are so many abuses of NHS privileges it's hard to know where to draw a line. Entitlement to NHS care for instance, depends purely on residence - if you are a U.K. citizen, pay taxes in to the U.K. revenue, lived and worked all your life in Britain, but you now live in a country with no reciprocal healthcare arrangements with the U.K. and spend less than 6 months in the U.K. you are NOT entitled to free NHS care.
if there is no clinical reason to justify the test, the GP could refuse, and suggest she has the tests done as part of the pre-op assessment in the USA. If a problem showed up in the tests, who should be the one to say the operation isn't going to happen? In my view it is the doctor in charge of the case, which emphatically is not the GP. But inevitably, the NHS will have to pick up any post-operative costs when she returns to Britain, her nose gets infected, becomes diseased and falls off, requiring months of reconstructive surgery at huge expense to the British taxpayer.
GPs can charge patients registered with them. What do you think they do with temporary residents in the country from overseas? They also charge for travel jabs, and if there's excess flu vaccine then you can fork out for that. Give it a year or so and you'll have women falling outwith the criteria for HPV vaccine paying for that too.If the tests are in the best interests of the patient, a judgement call has to be made. A discussion on the justification of these particular tests should take place - the hospital in the US should probably be doing the tests, because their labs may have very different ranges of normal, and interpretation is at the discretion of the doctor in charge of the case. The GP cannot withold the results as they are part of the patient's medical records.
It is rather galling to have the NHS paying for non-essential stuff, but there are so many abuses of NHS privileges it's hard to know where to draw a line. Entitlement to NHS care for instance, depends purely on residence - if you are a U.K. citizen, pay taxes in to the U.K. revenue, lived and worked all your life in Britain, but you now live in a country with no reciprocal healthcare arrangements with the U.K. and spend less than 6 months in the U.K. you are NOT entitled to free NHS care.
if there is no clinical reason to justify the test, the GP could refuse, and suggest she has the tests done as part of the pre-op assessment in the USA. If a problem showed up in the tests, who should be the one to say the operation isn't going to happen? In my view it is the doctor in charge of the case, which emphatically is not the GP. But inevitably, the NHS will have to pick up any post-operative costs when she returns to Britain, her nose gets infected, becomes diseased and falls off, requiring months of reconstructive surgery at huge expense to the British taxpayer.
Might want to read up on your guidance on UK residency too. You can work abroad for at least 5 years and still be entitled to NHS care. It doesn't depend purely on residence, you don't have to be a resident, can work here and be eligible for NHS care.
UK pensioners living overseas can qualify too.
http://www.sehd.scot.nhs.uk/mels/CEL2008_09.pdf
IMO these tests are part of a private episode, and seem to be related to something the NHS can't or won't offer so should be getting paid for.
BigAlinEmbra said:
GPs can charge patients registered with them. What do you think they do with temporary residents in the country from overseas?
There's a BIG difference between temporary/immediately necessary treatments, visitors from non-eligible countries, and citizens ORDINARILY RESIDENT in the U.K.BigAlinEmbra said:
They also charge for travel jabs, and if there's excess flu vaccine then you can fork out for that. Give it a year or so and you'll have women falling outwith the criteria for HPV vaccine paying for that too.
Certain travel vaccinations generate a fee - Yellow fever, rabies, Japanese Tick-borne encephalitis plus a few others I can't remember. Malaria prophylaxis is mostly on private prescription, but that's an NHS prescription issue, not a GP fee.Flu vaccination is only chargeable if it lies outside DoH guidance, and is again at the discretion of the GP - the DoH don't take very kindly to unreasonable charges being made, and neither do the GMC.
You might want to check on the recent extensions to the HPV vaccination campaign, and catch up programmes.
BigAlinEmbra said:
Might want to read up on your guidance on UK residency too. You can work abroad for at least 5 years and still be entitled to NHS care. It doesn't depend purely on residence, you don't have to be a resident, can work here and be eligible for NHS care.
UK pensioners living overseas can qualify too.
http://www.sehd.scot.nhs.uk/mels/CEL2008_09.pdf[ot...
You might want to check which country you're talking about - http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsand...UK pensioners living overseas can qualify too.
http://www.sehd.scot.nhs.uk/mels/CEL2008_09.pdf[ot...
BigAlin Embra said:
IMO these tests are part of a private episode, and seem to be related to something the NHS can't or won't offer so should be getting paid for.
I agree - But the pragmatic decision should have defendable grounds, and clinical responsibility is probably the most solid reason for refusing to perform the tests. But like I said, a bit of a grey area, even between countries within the Union!Nubbin said:
BigAlinEmbra said:
1. GPs can charge patients registered with them. What do you think they do with temporary residents in the country from overseas?
There's a BIG difference between temporary/immediately necessary treatments, visitors from non-eligible countries, and citizens ORDINARILY RESIDENT in the U.K.BigAlinEmbra said:
2. They also charge for travel jabs, and if there's excess flu vaccine then you can fork out for that. Give it a year or so and you'll have women falling outwith the criteria for HPV vaccine paying for that too.
Certain travel vaccinations generate a fee - Yellow fever, rabies, Japanese Tick-borne encephalitis plus a few others I can't remember. Malaria prophylaxis is mostly on private prescription, but that's an NHS prescription issue, not a GP fee.Flu vaccination is only chargeable if it lies outside DoH guidance, and is again at the discretion of the GP - the DoH don't take very kindly to unreasonable charges being made, and neither do the GMC.
You might want to check on the recent extensions to the HPV vaccination campaign, and catch up programmes.
BigAlinEmbra said:
3. Might want to read up on your guidance on UK residency too. You can work abroad for at least 5 years and still be entitled to NHS care. It doesn't depend purely on residence, you don't have to be a resident, can work here and be eligible for NHS care.
UK pensioners living overseas can qualify too.
http://www.sehd.scot.nhs.uk/mels/CEL2008_09.pdf[ot...
You might want to check which country you're talking about - http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Entitlementsand...UK pensioners living overseas can qualify too.
http://www.sehd.scot.nhs.uk/mels/CEL2008_09.pdf[ot...
BigAlin Embra said:
4. IMO these tests are part of a private episode, and seem to be related to something the NHS can't or won't offer so should be getting paid for.
I agree - But the pragmatic decision should have defendable grounds, and clinical responsibility is probably the most solid reason for refusing to perform the tests. But like I said, a bit of a grey area, even between countries within the Union!1. I take your point, but GPs can and do charge patients ordinarily resident. We've agreed that at 2.
2. Think we're in agreement here, there are things that NHS patients that are ordinarily resident have to pay for. Lovely jubbly.
3. This is what I do for a living btw, so I do live and breathe these regulations somewhat. Here's what your link is based on.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19890306_en_...
As you can see from section 4) k) (i), if you've worked outside the UK for less than 5 years you are still entitled to free NHS care. For the avoidance of doubt, I believe it says England and Wales near the top there.
BigAlinEmbra said:
3. This is what I do for a living btw, so I do live and breathe these regulations somewhat. Here's what your link is based on.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19890306_en_...
As you can see from section 4) k) (i), if you've worked outside the UK for less than 5 years you are still entitled to free NHS care. For the avoidance of doubt, I believe it says England and Wales near the top there.
I think we're looking at the same thing but from rather different angles. My problem is "Please note the above information gives general guidance only and should not be treated as a complete and authoritative statement of law. In all cases the Regulations place the responsibility of deciding who is entitled to receive free hospital treatment with the hospital providing treatment." Or GP.http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19890306_en_...
As you can see from section 4) k) (i), if you've worked outside the UK for less than 5 years you are still entitled to free NHS care. For the avoidance of doubt, I believe it says England and Wales near the top there.
Tha law as stated is fine, but interpretation at an individual case level rather whips away the rug of certainty. I'll leave you to sort out individual cases where there is dispute, but for the sake of 10 minute consultations, I use the rules which can be easily applied to the majority of presentations without needing to resort to the statute book. If I'm not sure, I have the phone number for PALS handy. I wouldn't want to deny NHS care to anyone eligible, but I also won't sanction health tourism, even from indignant pensioners living in Spain. Send me your e-mail address - I might be able to generate some business for you as I fumble with the regulations
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