How persistent is lean mass?

[otolith]

At the beginning of 2016, I lost a lot of weight, starting at about 95kg, and between about March 2016 and March 2018, I spent a lot of time doing resistance training.

I had a DEXA scan in July 2016 and the headline figures were

23.3% fat, 76.4kg total, 17.8kg fat, 3kg bones, 55.6kg lean

I had a repeat scan in October 2016 and the numbers were

18.4% fat, 73.07kg total, 13.4kg fat, 3kg bone, 57kg lean

I continued with the exercise regime for another 18 months, but didn't get round to doing another scan.

Then I moved to the other end of the country from my trainer and my gym, and life happened. Stopped exercising, over the course of 7 years, got fat again.

Started this year at 98kg. Now down to 86kg, losing weight fast, keeping protein intake high but haven't been using resistance exercise and concerned that I might be losing a lot of lean tissue, so booked another package of DEXA scans. New scan results:

22.6% fat, 86kg total, 19.5kg fat, 3kg bones, 63.6kg lean

Tabulated

Date	% Fat	Total	Fat kg	Lean kg
July 2016	23.3%	76.4kg	17.8kg	55.6kg
October 2016	18.4%	73.07kg	13.4kg	57kg
March 2025	22.6%	86kg	19.5kg	63.6kg

I gained a fair bit more muscle mass between October 2016 and March 2018, weighed about 80kg. If I were still carrying the same weight of fat as October 2016 I'd have had exactly the same lean mass I have now, which seems unlikely after 7 years of doing no resistance training. Pretty damn sure I won't look the same when I lose another 6kg as I did then! So I must have been leaner. If I was at 10% fat (and I doubt that I was) I would still have only had about 69kg of lean tissue.

Looking at this, I'm quite surprised that I have not lost more. I expected to be more or less back to square one. Is it normal to still retain so much mass after a 7 year break?

Anyway, adding resistance training back in now, looking to maintain lean mass while I lose another 10kg or so and then adjusting diet and exercise to try to regain.

[otolith]

Having restarted weights, I can confirm that much of the mass may remain, but the strength has largely gone. I'm not expecting to gain any mass or much strength while I'm running a big calorific deficit for the next few months, but it will be interesting to see what I can retain.

[popeyewhite]

There's no reason to lose any lean mass on a calorie restricted diet, providing a. the diet isn't a starvation diet and, b. you keep protein intake adequate. Significant muscle atrophy will only occur in an otherwise healthy person if a bodypart is completely immobile for a number of weeks (ie quad muscle wastage as a result of broken femur and resulting cast).

[otolith]

Most of the studies I read were finding around 25% of mass lost under caloric restriction was lean, which is a bit scary. I've lost fat and gained muscle at the same time in the past - though with slower weight loss and more exercise than I'm realistically able to do at the moment - so I think with a high protein intake and some resistance training I should be able to beat 25%.

What I found really surprising, though, was the amount of gained lean mass retained 7 years post training. I've definitely lost some, and definitely lost a lot of strength, but still have considerably more than I started off with.

[Xerstead]

otolith said:

Most of the studies I read were finding around 25% of mass lost under caloric restriction was lean, which is a bit scary. I've lost fat and gained muscle at the same time in the past - though with slower weight loss and more exercise than I'm realistically able to do at the moment - so I think with a high protein intake and some resistance training I should be able to beat 25%.

What I found really surprising, though, was the amount of gained lean mass retained 7 years post training. I've definitely lost some, and definitely lost a lot of strength, but still have considerably more than I started off with.

With proper resistance training you should easily gain lean mass, not lose it, while losing fat. From the discussions I've seen about it, it doesn't take much exercise to prevent the loss. Just keep protein up, dont cut the calories too hard, and get enough sleep to recover. That's assuming you're fairly new (or returning to) lifting, and have a reasonable amount of bodyfat already.
I started training two years ago at a 'healthy', but soft, 97kg having already lost a bit. I gradually got that down to 91kg last summer (about 19 months). Now I'm at a lean 93kg with significant, visible, muscle mass. Total fat loss is probably ~20kg.
It can be done, it just takes some effort.

[otolith]

Expect to be around where I want to be in terms of fat loss around the end of June, so will have a follow-up scan then to see what's happened. Just hoping to minimise losses until then. Any gain will be welcome but surprising.

[popeyewhite]

Xerstead said:

With proper resistance training you should easily gain lean mass, not lose it, while losing fat....
....It can be done, it just takes some effort.

So not "easy" then?
Anyway, IMV it requires a very dialled-in diet, technically correct exercise application and more dedication than most people possess.

I've done a number of body recomps over the years and have been extremely happy to trade 0.5 kg of fat for 0.5 kg of muscle, or thereabouts.

[otolith]

popeyewhite said:

I've done a number of body recomps over the years and have been extremely happy to trade 0.5 kg of fat for 0.5 kg of muscle, or thereabouts.

Between July and October 2016, I traded 4.4kg of fat for 1.4kg of muscle, but that was an exercise and dietary regime that I just couldn't do now. The nurse who did the scan commented that it was unusual to see that happen.

[popeyewhite]

otolith said:

popeyewhite said:

I've done a number of body recomps over the years and have been extremely happy to trade 0.5 kg of fat for 0.5 kg of muscle, or thereabouts.

Between July and October 2016, I traded 4.4kg of fat for 1.4kg of muscle, but that was an exercise and dietary regime that I just couldn't do now. The nurse who did the scan commented that it was unusual to see that happen.

Yes it's hard work. And as your bf% gets lower then obviously the harder it gets. The two greatest drivers for muscle hypertrophy are change of exercise and the weight used and as time goes by and the body adapts they become harder to manipulate.. .

[Terminator X]

3kg bones?! I'm surprised that it is so light.

TX.

[otolith]

Terminator X said:

3kg bones?! I'm surprised that it is so light.

I don't believe it includes the marrow, just the mineralised parts.

[Xerstead]

popeyewhite said:

Xerstead said:

With proper resistance training you should easily gain lean mass, not lose it, while losing fat....
....It can be done, it just takes some effort.

So not "easy" then?
Anyway, IMV it requires a very dialled-in diet, technically correct exercise application and more dedication than most people possess.

I've done a number of body recomps over the years and have been extremely happy to trade 0.5 kg of fat for 0.5 kg of muscle, or thereabouts.

Simple and straightforward may have been a better choice of words. For an untrained person getting improvements in strength/muscle should be easy. Work them and the body will respond. Having the dedication to do it is more of a barrier than the effort needed to lift the weights once you start.
Diet just needs to be reasonable. No one's 's going to out train a diet of crisps and pizza, but it shouldn't need managing in fine detail. Training hard pushed my appetite towards higher protein, and I just made sure to have a good serving with each meal (including breakfast). It's very satiating for the calories which helped shut off my appetite for snacking through the day, and cut out the rice/pasta with dinner.

[horsemeatscandal]

Xerstead said:

No one's 's going to out train a diet of crisps and pizza

Hold my beer....