How to help an elderly individual who has nobody? Legal?
Discussion
Hi, PH Collective. Hopefully someone can help us with this plight. Sorry if this ends up being very long, but there's some detail that needs clarifying and explaining. Names have been changed for privacy.
My wife and I moved home in September, but where we used to live was a block of eight flats. There's an elderly couple there, Fred & Mo, who have no direct family or anybody around. Mo was taken into a home just after Covid as her Parkinson's got worse, and we effectively looked after Fred as much as we could. Despite being early-90s, he drove his NB-generation MX-5 nearly daily (yeah, really) and was otherwise fit and well, often walking decent distances too. Unfortunately, since we moved in September, we sort of lost contact with Fred - he's profoundly deaf, struggles with using his hearing aids, and isn't good at phone calls.
Whilst we were there, we looked after him quite a lot, helping him with food, buying him a microwave, labelling things, and checking in on him. He is an absolute gent and a lovely man, and we went and visited him in hospital when he went in (twice in the last 18 months) as he had nobody else.
Whilst he was in hospital, I gave them my mobile number as an emergency contact; as mentioned, Fred didn't have anyone else, and primarily it was also so that when he got discharged, I could bring him home and he wouldn't have to wait most of the day for a transfer.
Anyway, I got a call this afternoon saying that Fred had been brought in with a bleed on the brain and has fallen - he's now 93. They still have my number on file. He's actually had two bleeds, and this second one is 'slightly worse'. They want to keep him in for observation for a few days, before discharging hopefully mid-next-week. He's apparently not quite with it at the moment, and may need to be kept 'against his will' (doctor's words).
Speaking to my wife, what's frustrating and really upsetting us is that the hospital will want to send him back to his flat and organise a carer to visit. He has no means of transport despite having two cars, since the DVLA took his licence away, and all he will want to do is visit Mo, who he's besotted with.
Clearly, I have no legal power as I legally have nothing to do with him, and neither of us are interested in a penny, all we want is for justice and fairness.
We've spoken to the care home that Mo is in, and they have a room available. They know us on first-name-terms since Fred's last hospital visit, as we encouraged them to bring Mo to the hospital for them to be reunited during visiting hours.
The only logical conclusion, surely, is that Fred moves into the same care home as Mo, as their only wish will be to spend time together and to be reunited.
I've spoken to the doctor and a nurse at the hospital to ask if they can speak to a social worker to help facilitate the above, but there seems to be a gaping hole in elderly social care. Is there anything else we can do? Logically speaking, the flat and the cars should be sold ASAP in order to fund this, and the money all goes towards Fred's care home fees. Problem is, they have nobody, so nobody is aware of the situation. It's absolutely heartbreaking.
We'll be going to hospital to visit Fred tomorrow, but I wondered if any of you had any bright ideas or suggestions with any way in which we can ensure that he does live out his final days next to his wife, as opposed to potentially being stuck in his own home without any means of seeing her, or put in another random home and with no means of ever visiting her?
Thank you.
My wife and I moved home in September, but where we used to live was a block of eight flats. There's an elderly couple there, Fred & Mo, who have no direct family or anybody around. Mo was taken into a home just after Covid as her Parkinson's got worse, and we effectively looked after Fred as much as we could. Despite being early-90s, he drove his NB-generation MX-5 nearly daily (yeah, really) and was otherwise fit and well, often walking decent distances too. Unfortunately, since we moved in September, we sort of lost contact with Fred - he's profoundly deaf, struggles with using his hearing aids, and isn't good at phone calls.
Whilst we were there, we looked after him quite a lot, helping him with food, buying him a microwave, labelling things, and checking in on him. He is an absolute gent and a lovely man, and we went and visited him in hospital when he went in (twice in the last 18 months) as he had nobody else.
Whilst he was in hospital, I gave them my mobile number as an emergency contact; as mentioned, Fred didn't have anyone else, and primarily it was also so that when he got discharged, I could bring him home and he wouldn't have to wait most of the day for a transfer.
Anyway, I got a call this afternoon saying that Fred had been brought in with a bleed on the brain and has fallen - he's now 93. They still have my number on file. He's actually had two bleeds, and this second one is 'slightly worse'. They want to keep him in for observation for a few days, before discharging hopefully mid-next-week. He's apparently not quite with it at the moment, and may need to be kept 'against his will' (doctor's words).
Speaking to my wife, what's frustrating and really upsetting us is that the hospital will want to send him back to his flat and organise a carer to visit. He has no means of transport despite having two cars, since the DVLA took his licence away, and all he will want to do is visit Mo, who he's besotted with.
Clearly, I have no legal power as I legally have nothing to do with him, and neither of us are interested in a penny, all we want is for justice and fairness.
We've spoken to the care home that Mo is in, and they have a room available. They know us on first-name-terms since Fred's last hospital visit, as we encouraged them to bring Mo to the hospital for them to be reunited during visiting hours.
The only logical conclusion, surely, is that Fred moves into the same care home as Mo, as their only wish will be to spend time together and to be reunited.
I've spoken to the doctor and a nurse at the hospital to ask if they can speak to a social worker to help facilitate the above, but there seems to be a gaping hole in elderly social care. Is there anything else we can do? Logically speaking, the flat and the cars should be sold ASAP in order to fund this, and the money all goes towards Fred's care home fees. Problem is, they have nobody, so nobody is aware of the situation. It's absolutely heartbreaking.
We'll be going to hospital to visit Fred tomorrow, but I wondered if any of you had any bright ideas or suggestions with any way in which we can ensure that he does live out his final days next to his wife, as opposed to potentially being stuck in his own home without any means of seeing her, or put in another random home and with no means of ever visiting her?
Thank you.
mike9009 said:
It is a minefield.
I would contact Age UK to seek their advice. The under resourcing of social servicea means until something becomes urgent it won't get dealt with in my recent experience. And it seems different LAs have different routes for this to happen.....
Thanks. I did actually call Age UK to ask for advice, who then told me they aren't allowed to advise on a situation such as this, and suggested about social services. I would contact Age UK to seek their advice. The under resourcing of social servicea means until something becomes urgent it won't get dealt with in my recent experience. And it seems different LAs have different routes for this to happen.....
We'll try and get the doc onside at the geriatric ward (he had a lot of time for me on the phone and we had a long conversation today), and see what happens tomorrow.
My gut is that he shouldn't return to the flat, and that his rightful place is in a home next to Mo, which is all he's living for anyway.
However, if he's not compos mentis, he won't be able to agree to this. So saddening.
It’s the systems responsibility now if there’s no family.
The hospital will assess, a social worker will be assigned and firstly they will try to get him back in his house with a care package and then if that doesn’t work into a care home, which will be found and funded by the council. The council will become his LPA and basically make the decisions if he’s lost capacity and there’s no family.
Do not take it on yourself to do it no matter how much the hospital and council ask you too, it’s an awful job and full of stress and incompetence from the council.
Let them deal with the faff of selling the house to get the money when he dies.
The hospital will assess, a social worker will be assigned and firstly they will try to get him back in his house with a care package and then if that doesn’t work into a care home, which will be found and funded by the council. The council will become his LPA and basically make the decisions if he’s lost capacity and there’s no family.
Do not take it on yourself to do it no matter how much the hospital and council ask you too, it’s an awful job and full of stress and incompetence from the council.
Let them deal with the faff of selling the house to get the money when he dies.
loskie said:
No help to you I know (plus my thoughts and hopes are with you) BUT a GOOD reason why folks should have a lasting power of attorney. I'm 55 this year, have no one also have no POA and that worries me.
Good on you OP for looking out for a neighbour. Good luck.
Thanks. I have Lasting POA for both of my parents, and that's absolutely why they did it. Good on you OP for looking out for a neighbour. Good luck.
Quattr04. said:
It’s the systems responsibility now if there’s no family.
The hospital will assess, a social worker will be assigned and firstly they will try to get him back in his house with a care package and then if that doesn’t work into a care home, which will be found and funded by the council. The council will become his LPA and basically make the decisions if he’s lost capacity and there’s no family.
Do not take it on yourself to do it no matter how much the hospital and council ask you too, it’s an awful job and full of stress and incompetence from the council.
Let them deal with the faff of selling the house to get the money when he dies.
I just want to help him be back with Mo. The money from the flat surely would pay for being with her as opposed to some random care home in the middle of nowhere, and nowhere near her. It's not about the money, it's about doing the right thing. I'd want that for me, and we're mindful of how lonely it is for him. It's just very sad all-round. The hospital will assess, a social worker will be assigned and firstly they will try to get him back in his house with a care package and then if that doesn’t work into a care home, which will be found and funded by the council. The council will become his LPA and basically make the decisions if he’s lost capacity and there’s no family.
Do not take it on yourself to do it no matter how much the hospital and council ask you too, it’s an awful job and full of stress and incompetence from the council.
Let them deal with the faff of selling the house to get the money when he dies.
My best wishes to you and your wife. Humanity seems to be something lacking in our world, you both haven’t forgotten about it. It’s a difficult one to manage, clearly if they have absolutely nobody connected to them it falls under social services, however as others have stated this is a road that has no satisfactory ending. Local MP, GP might be the best avenue, it’s a sad case that has one decent outcome, them both being in the same care home, getting that goal is likely to be full of twists and turns. Good luck and hope it turns out well for everyone.
Local Authorities (county level, not district) provide a service called Deputyship as part of Adult Social Care. This is like Power of Attorney but where there are no next of kin. A case worker is assigned and once all checks are done, has all legal control over the person's affairs. Do not allow any cynicism towards local authorities to cloud judgement on this service. Those that do this work are brilliant and dedicated.
So I would start there.
So I would start there.
dingg said:
Well done OP, for taking up the cause to help out with the situation in which your old neighbours have found themselves in.
Nice to see good deeds being done these days, good luck in getting a decent result
This, I can't offer any useful.input but just wanted to applaud you for being a decent human.Nice to see good deeds being done these days, good luck in getting a decent result
Thanks all. We went and saw F in hospital today and all he kept saying is that he wants to be in a home with M.
Great result, we want to try and make it happen now. Hopefully we can pass things over to social services as I'm not his next of kin and absolutely don't want to get involved with any of the financials, least of all because I'm sure (and would expect) that that would be viewed with suspicion.
Unfortunately, doing the right thing seems rare nowadays. He's just so absolutely besotted with her and just wants to be back with her, and that's all that matters. And we're determined to make that happen.
Great result, we want to try and make it happen now. Hopefully we can pass things over to social services as I'm not his next of kin and absolutely don't want to get involved with any of the financials, least of all because I'm sure (and would expect) that that would be viewed with suspicion.
Unfortunately, doing the right thing seems rare nowadays. He's just so absolutely besotted with her and just wants to be back with her, and that's all that matters. And we're determined to make that happen.
Good on you.
Could the media, newspapers, radio, TV get involved if you contact them? Politicians might get to hear of it and they seem to love jumping onto a heart throb (read good publicity) story. It could whip up a public frenzy of support.
Some hospitals have a vulnerability nurse who evaluate patients trying to identify if they are vulnerable, and seek to put things in place for them. See if his hospital has one and have a chat with them.
Could the media, newspapers, radio, TV get involved if you contact them? Politicians might get to hear of it and they seem to love jumping onto a heart throb (read good publicity) story. It could whip up a public frenzy of support.
Some hospitals have a vulnerability nurse who evaluate patients trying to identify if they are vulnerable, and seek to put things in place for them. See if his hospital has one and have a chat with them.
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