What do you take for joint health?

[Phooey]

I have various joint issues / arthritis (diagnosed by MRI) / cartilage wear etc so would probably benefit from a cocktail of supplements. A Google search opens up a minefield of advertisements and recommendations. What do you take and what works? Also it’d be helpful to hear of recommendations for brands worth buying from and which brands to avoid. Thanks

[Jamescrs]

Glucosamine I find helps a lot, I have early onset arthritis in my knee.

A lot of people say it makes no difference but I disagree.
Going back a few years I had an old greyhound who was very stiff in her legs at the rear, the ent recommended it for her and it made a huge difference to her. My thinking is a dog doesn’t understand medicines or likely to be subject to placebo effects.

Glucosamine is available relatively cheaply and can be bought in the vitamin section of most supermarkets or on Amazon.

[horsemeatscandal]

I'll firstly caveat this by saying that I've come to the conclusion (through using them) that a lot of supplements, especially those that might be considered a "fad", are bks.

However, when I was doing a lot of running I'd get inflammation in my knees. CBD balm really helped, without fail. I'm not sure how this would work with things like arthritis, but worth doing the research.

[craig1912]

If you already have arthritis then no supplement will help it.
I have OE in half my right knee. Only “cure” is a partial replacement

[Jamescrs]

craig1912 said:

If you already have arthritis then no supplement will help it.
I have OE in half my right knee. Only “cure” is a partial replacement

I was referred by my GP on the NHS to a specialist for a clean out of the joint, I know others who have had it done and apparently its pretty successful but the specialist has refused it on the basis that they no longer recommend it because they essentially are removing some cartilage which will make it worse long term.

I have to basically live with it until it gets so bad I need a knee replacement. I intend to retire in 10 years at 55 so hoping my knee will see me out until then.

[Badda]

craig1912 said:

If you already have arthritis then no supplement will help it.
I have OE in half my right knee. Only “cure” is a partial replacement

Systematic review from 2023 suggests glucosamine is better than placebo for OA pain.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10366893/

A few limitations in the study but, for pain alone, a positive.

[craig1912]

Jamescrs said:

I was referred by my GP on the NHS to a specialist for a clean out of the joint, I know others who have had it done and apparently its pretty successful but the specialist has refused it on the basis that they no longer recommend it because they essentially are removing some cartilage which will make it worse long term.

I have to basically live with it until it gets so bad I need a knee replacement. I intend to retire in 10 years at 55 so hoping my knee will see me out until then.

I had a meniscus removed (it was torn but they didn’t repair in those days) and ruptured my ACL (again not repaired) nearly forty years ago and have managed well walking, gym and skiing (until two years ago). My specialist has said if I can manage with a steroid injection once a year or so it will put off having a replacement. I’ve had two in last three years and it is fine.
I’ve tried various supplements but nothing can replacement cartilage in IMO it’s an expensive thing for no benefit

[The Leaper]

Here's my experiences. Bear in mind I am now age 81.

I had arthritis in both knees for several years and I tried all sorts of supposed relievers of pain, but none worked. So, I had right leg total knee replacement surgery in May 2023 and the same for left leg May 2024, in a private hospital, both successful. For anyone contemplating such surgery I would recommend:

1. Making sure that you are ready for it ahead of the op, particularly the strength of the surrounding muscles, tendons etc. I had a pre op physio assessment both times.
2. Post op, expect pain, a comprehensive prescribed exercise routine, and tiredness even from the smallest amount of exercise

For me recovery took 3-4 months and several physio sessions.

I took paracetamol for several months too.

With my continental style breakfast (most days) I also add a significant dose of extra virgin olive oil as this is supposed to help all joints. I think it does, too.

R.

[mcelliott]

Most supps don’t work and the one’s that do really don’t make much difference, I have arthritis in my left hip, had it for about 10 years, biggest change I made was losing weight, the difference in pain is night and day, my surgeon couldn’t believe how well I walked compared to 5 years ago despite the x rays showing huge wear, keeping active and building muscle with stretching exercises helped me .

[Phooey]

Brill thanks for replies guys. I shall buy some glucosamine and give it a blast - I used to take it years ago (along with MSM and Omega 3 I think) but am out of touch with the latest drugs. I also took some Solgar Collagen Hyaluronic Acid Complex for a while, which I *think* worked but looking at the price of it now (around £45/mth) I can remember why i stopped buying it.

[The_Doc]

Phooey said:

I have various joint issues / arthritis (diagnosed by MRI) / cartilage wear etc so would probably benefit from a cocktail of supplements. A Google search opens up a minefield of advertisements and recommendations. What do you take and what works? Also it’d be helpful to hear of recommendations for brands worth buying from and which brands to avoid. Thanks

None, no supplements, are proven to stop, reduce or rewind the disease,
There is some emerging evidence that something in Turmeric might help with pain from osteoarthritis.
But no science yet, ? dose ?formulation ?preparation. Turmeric is a lot of different things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turmeric

[The_Doc]

craig1912 said:

If you already have arthritis then no supplement will help it.
I have OE in half my right knee. Only “cure” is a partial replacement

You might be able to have an osteotomy

[The_Doc]

Jamescrs said:

I was referred by my GP on the NHS to a specialist for a clean out of the joint, I know others who have had it done and apparently its pretty successful but the specialist has refused it on the basis that they no longer recommend it because they essentially are removing some cartilage which will make it worse long term.

Arthroscopy (keyhole/clean out/'scrape') is of no benefit for the established pain of osteoarthritis. Pure mechanical symptoms alone are different

It is now a POLCV, procedure of limited clinical value and the NHS (and the private insurers) shouldn't be wasting money on it.

It is essentially off limits for pure arthritic pain in the NHS now, https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ipg230/chapter/1-...
-with caveats

Edited by The_Doc on Wednesday 15th January 18:54

[The_Doc]

Badda said:

craig1912 said:

If you already have arthritis then no supplement will help it.
I have OE in half my right knee. Only “cure” is a partial replacement

Systematic review from 2023 suggests glucosamine is better than placebo for OA pain.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10366893/

A few limitations in the study but, for pain alone, a positive.

I'm afraid to say that that publication is poor quality, sits outside of the milieu of the other evidence and is not generally well regarded.
Not all evidence is good quality evidence. Its Conclusions don't flow from its Discussion.

Generally we think that Glucosamine and Chondroitin are not useful. I tell people to given them 2-3 months, and then shut their wallet back up unless they love them.

[The_Doc]

craig1912 said:

I had a meniscus removed (it was torn but they didn’t repair in those days) and ruptured my ACL (again not repaired) nearly forty years ago and have managed well walking, gym and skiing (until two years ago). My specialist has said if I can manage with a steroid injection once a year or so it will put off having a replacement. I’ve had two in last three years and it is fine.
I’ve tried various supplements but nothing can replacement cartilage in IMO it’s an expensive thing for no benefit

Steroid, or more properly Corticosteroids can turn down the inflammatory component of OA, and if a knee feels "hot" and inflamed they can work.

But they are catabolic, soften the remaining hyaline (joint end covering) cartilage, and probably hasten the end.

I find after 2-3 of them, at minimum 9 month interval, the therapy window closes and then it is no longer an option.
Plus there is a small infective risk. And having a joint replacement soon after a corticosteroid injection might increase the risk of joint infection (= VERY bad)

[The_Doc]

The Leaper said:

Here's my experiences. Bear in mind I am now age 81.

I had arthritis in both knees for several years and I tried all sorts of supposed relievers of pain, but none worked. So, I had right leg total knee replacement surgery in May 2023 and the same for left leg May 2024, in a private hospital, both successful. For anyone contemplating such surgery I would recommend:

1. Making sure that you are ready for it ahead of the op, particularly the strength of the surrounding muscles, tendons etc. I had a pre op physio assessment both times.
2. Post op, expect pain, a comprehensive prescribed exercise routine, and tiredness even from the smallest amount of exercise

For me recovery took 3-4 months and several physio sessions.

I took paracetamol for several months too.

With my continental style breakfast (most days) I also add a significant dose of extra virgin olive oil as this is supposed to help all joints. I think it does, too.

R.

All of this a big YES, apart from the olive oil, which is a warm NO.

[Phooey]

The_Doc said:

Helpful stuff

Thanks for your replies, Doc. If you don't mind I would like to ask your opinion on some stuff in a couple of weeks. Long story short - had SUFE approx 35yrs ago and as a result of that a slightly externally rotated leg. Been suffering with lateral knee pain for a few years - comes and goes but mainly exercise makes it worse. X-ray shows good joint spaces of the knee (GP arranged this) and referred me to knee/leg doc/surgeon who has arranged for MRI of the knee and X-ray of the hips. I should know the results when I see him in a couple of weeks but he was talking about various ideas like clean out the knee, rotate the leg, or if the hip is damaged (I have no pain in it) replace the hip. All seems a bit of blur at the mo but very keen to AVOID surgery. I guess his thinking is operate at the hip to save the knee? If I don't go to the gym I feel ok

[craig1912]

The_Doc said:

Steroid, or more properly Corticosteroids can turn down the inflammatory component of OA, and if a knee feels "hot" and inflamed they can work.

But they are catabolic, soften the remaining hyaline (joint end covering) cartilage, and probably hasten the end.

I find after 2-3 of them, at minimum 9 month interval, the therapy window closes and then it is no longer an option.
Plus there is a small infective risk. And having a joint replacement soon after a corticosteroid injection might increase the risk of joint infection (= VERY bad)

Thanks for the info. I’ve had two over three years and it’s bone on bone with no cartilage.I’ll see how it goes and speak to my consultant who is a knee specialist. And I’ve no intention of having a partial replacement for a few years yet if I can help it.

[Bill]

The_Doc said:

Steroid, or more properly Corticosteroids can turn down the inflammatory component of OA, and if a knee feels "hot" and inflamed they can work.

But they are catabolic, soften the remaining hyaline (joint end covering) cartilage, and probably hasten the end.

I find after 2-3 of them, at minimum 9 month interval, the therapy window closes and then it is no longer an option.
Plus there is a small infective risk. And having a joint replacement soon after a corticosteroid injection might increase the risk of joint infection (= VERY bad)

Plus use the window of pain relief post injection to crack on with some physio/exercise to try to address the stiffness and weakness.

The main route to is to improve your movement and strength, lose weight to assist load bearing joints, and reduce inflammation - so low sugar and AIUI omega 3 oil is meant to help too.

[The_Doc]

Phooey said:

The_Doc said:

Helpful stuff

Thanks for your replies, Doc. If you don't mind I would like to ask your opinion on some stuff in a couple of weeks. Long story short - had SUFE approx 35yrs ago and as a result of that a slightly externally rotated leg. Been suffering with lateral knee pain for a few years - comes and goes but mainly exercise makes it worse. X-ray shows good joint spaces of the knee (GP arranged this) and referred me to knee/leg doc/surgeon who has arranged for MRI of the knee and X-ray of the hips. I should know the results when I see him in a couple of weeks but he was talking about various ideas like clean out the knee, rotate the leg, or if the hip is damaged (I have no pain in it) replace the hip. All seems a bit of blur at the mo but very keen to AVOID surgery. I guess his thinking is operate at the hip to save the knee? If I don't go to the gym I feel ok

Short answer : I can't give you advice without seeing you and your xrays face to face. Sorry.
Medium answer : it's always important to consider alignment, and joints are connected to the nearby ones.