TRT Clinics and experiences, bit confused
Discussion
Hi All,
I'm just looking to get some informal advice.
I'm 48, eat healthy, exercise 5 dpw, don't drink much and have a normal BMI.
Over the last 18 months or so I've started to feel a little more tired, struggled on the libido front and ED, moods is fairly flat. From what I've read all the signs that point to low T.
My doctor initial gave me a testtosrone test back in 2022
Testosterone:15.8 nmol/L.
I kind of forgot about if for a while, then decided to get tested by manual.co in August. this came back as low
Testosterone: 10.9 nmol/L
Free Testosterone :0.183 nmol/l
SHBG: 39.7 nmol/l
Albumin: 47.7 g/l
manual.co them bombarded me with emails telling me my levels were low and that and need an enhanced blood test. I felt like it was a marketing/selling activity.
I went back to to doctor for a regular blood check up
Testosterone: 17.6 nmol/l
I'd also been in contact with the 'Mens health clinic' and Dr Stephen Roberts he suggested the results were low and that I needed to take and enhances blood test, which I did last week, so full blood works:
the Randox blood came back all green (which is within guidelines I assume) apart from HDL Cholesterol, which was slightly low, probably due to statins.
Testosterone: 15.5 nmol/L
Free Testosterone :0.315 nmol/l
SHBG: 33.6 nmol/l
Albumin: 43.3 g/l
Following a phone consultation its recommended a sign up as a new patient on TRT.
Really appreciate any experience with the Men's health Clinic, it seems to come highly recommended, but at a price!
I know numbers don't tell the whole story, but apart from the manual.co one all seem to be 'normal' has anyone else with 'normal' levels gone on TRT ?
Many thanks
I'm just looking to get some informal advice.
I'm 48, eat healthy, exercise 5 dpw, don't drink much and have a normal BMI.
Over the last 18 months or so I've started to feel a little more tired, struggled on the libido front and ED, moods is fairly flat. From what I've read all the signs that point to low T.
My doctor initial gave me a testtosrone test back in 2022
Testosterone:15.8 nmol/L.
I kind of forgot about if for a while, then decided to get tested by manual.co in August. this came back as low
Testosterone: 10.9 nmol/L
Free Testosterone :0.183 nmol/l
SHBG: 39.7 nmol/l
Albumin: 47.7 g/l
manual.co them bombarded me with emails telling me my levels were low and that and need an enhanced blood test. I felt like it was a marketing/selling activity.
I went back to to doctor for a regular blood check up
Testosterone: 17.6 nmol/l
I'd also been in contact with the 'Mens health clinic' and Dr Stephen Roberts he suggested the results were low and that I needed to take and enhances blood test, which I did last week, so full blood works:
the Randox blood came back all green (which is within guidelines I assume) apart from HDL Cholesterol, which was slightly low, probably due to statins.
Testosterone: 15.5 nmol/L
Free Testosterone :0.315 nmol/l
SHBG: 33.6 nmol/l
Albumin: 43.3 g/l
Following a phone consultation its recommended a sign up as a new patient on TRT.
Really appreciate any experience with the Men's health Clinic, it seems to come highly recommended, but at a price!
I know numbers don't tell the whole story, but apart from the manual.co one all seem to be 'normal' has anyone else with 'normal' levels gone on TRT ?
Many thanks
Have a read through this ongoing low testosterone thread, might be of some use:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Your testosterone level isn't even low....the fact they are trying to get you to take up TRT (something you will be on for the rest of your life) with those levels suggests they are after your money.
For reference my T levels were 6nmol....meaning I really needed TRT....you absolutely do not need it....just sort your lifestyle out.
For reference my T levels were 6nmol....meaning I really needed TRT....you absolutely do not need it....just sort your lifestyle out.
However, this would depend on your estrogen level. SHBG is mid range so maybe that's not an issue. Read up on SHBG and estrogen and how they affect bioavailable T.
As they say, treat the symptoms not the numbers. T by itself is almost meaningless when trying to treat symptoms or diagnose. NHS will usually just look at T and if it's in normal range, send you packing. NHS do not (or don't want to) understand male hormones.
Get a full panel done including estrogen, SHBG, FSH etc and go private if you want prompt diagnosis. Otherwise NHS route will get there in the end, but years later.
As they say, treat the symptoms not the numbers. T by itself is almost meaningless when trying to treat symptoms or diagnose. NHS will usually just look at T and if it's in normal range, send you packing. NHS do not (or don't want to) understand male hormones.
Get a full panel done including estrogen, SHBG, FSH etc and go private if you want prompt diagnosis. Otherwise NHS route will get there in the end, but years later.
xx99xx said:
Have a read through this ongoing low testosterone thread, might be of some use:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Thanks I read through a lot of themhttps://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Yes, I went for the full blood test that ‘men’s health clinic’ recommended.
TSH 2.09
FT4 14.5
FT3 5.35
I’d assume a clinic with their reputation wouldn’t be trying to just flog TRT, like other online companies are.
I think my slight confusion is that the randox blood works all show green (within expected range)
TSH 2.09
FT4 14.5
FT3 5.35
I’d assume a clinic with their reputation wouldn’t be trying to just flog TRT, like other online companies are.
I think my slight confusion is that the randox blood works all show green (within expected range)
Your numbers are very decent and you do not need TRT. Most people who actually do need TRT would be perfectly happy with your levels I assure you.
- It is no fun sticking needles in yourself multiple times a week.
- It is no fun remembering to take anti estrogen pills every week.
- It is certainly not fun trying to work out if feeling bad is due to another imbalance and having to pay out for another blood draw.
It is no fun 20 years down the line when you realise that the 100 pound plus a month you paid out could have made a healthy addition to your pension and now you are retired you can no longer afford the treatment.
- It is no fun sticking needles in yourself multiple times a week.
- It is no fun remembering to take anti estrogen pills every week.
- It is certainly not fun trying to work out if feeling bad is due to another imbalance and having to pay out for another blood draw.
It is no fun 20 years down the line when you realise that the 100 pound plus a month you paid out could have made a healthy addition to your pension and now you are retired you can no longer afford the treatment.
I've been on TRT for several years now due to a pituitary tumour which stops the signal going to my nads to create it.
When I first started out I was on 7nmol, which felt like I was dying, absolutely exhausted and could barely think straight. Joint pains etc etc. After a few months of replacement I felt amazing, but every year or so your body changes and you need to amend the dosage (up or down). I mention this as mine is usually in the 20's, however I started to feel a bit crap again and had a routine blood test that showed i was back to 13 nmol. I wasn't as bad as I was on 7nmol, but I started having some achy joints and lethargy was definitely creeping back.
I would say exhaust other options, get things like Vit D, B, diet etc checked properly to make sure its not something simple. TRT is not cheap, and once you start you may struggle to stop!
Lastly, people will say yours is high enough, however its not about numbers, its how YOU feel. Some people will feel totally fine on 13nmol, others not at all so. Its NOT a one size fits all numbers game.
Best of luck OP.
When I first started out I was on 7nmol, which felt like I was dying, absolutely exhausted and could barely think straight. Joint pains etc etc. After a few months of replacement I felt amazing, but every year or so your body changes and you need to amend the dosage (up or down). I mention this as mine is usually in the 20's, however I started to feel a bit crap again and had a routine blood test that showed i was back to 13 nmol. I wasn't as bad as I was on 7nmol, but I started having some achy joints and lethargy was definitely creeping back.
I would say exhaust other options, get things like Vit D, B, diet etc checked properly to make sure its not something simple. TRT is not cheap, and once you start you may struggle to stop!
Lastly, people will say yours is high enough, however its not about numbers, its how YOU feel. Some people will feel totally fine on 13nmol, others not at all so. Its NOT a one size fits all numbers game.
Best of luck OP.
michael_JCWS said:
I’m going to start by trying the following:
Morning:
USANA CellSentials
Vitamin D3 4000IU
2000mg Omega 3 Fish Oil
Night:
2000mg Magnesium Threonate
30mg Zinc Picolinate
See what the impact if of those
I wouldn't start messing around with supplements and just yet.Morning:
USANA CellSentials
Vitamin D3 4000IU
2000mg Omega 3 Fish Oil
Night:
2000mg Magnesium Threonate
30mg Zinc Picolinate
See what the impact if of those
Go to docs and explain symptoms - get a full blood profile done and go from there.
Dog Biscuit said:
I wouldn't start messing around with supplements and just yet.
Go to docs and explain symptoms - get a full blood profile done and go from there.
Have you read the thread? the OP has done all that.Go to docs and explain symptoms - get a full blood profile done and go from there.
Given the available data some of us are just a little confused as to why TRT has been recommended that is all. Some of the clinics seem to be business first these days.
272BHP said:
Dog Biscuit said:
I wouldn't start messing around with supplements and just yet.
Go to docs and explain symptoms - get a full blood profile done and go from there.
Have you read the thread? the OP has done all that.Go to docs and explain symptoms - get a full blood profile done and go from there.
Given the available data some of us are just a little confused as to why TRT has been recommended that is all. Some of the clinics seem to be business first these days.
It depends on what markers we're asked for on the test.
A full blood profile plus hormones and psa would be the best start.
The TRT clinics, from my understanding have carried out the initial Testosterone level check and are now mithering him for a full profile.
Unless I'm missing something
My sentiment is trt isn't the answer, but without a clear datum then just guzzling vits and minerals isn't the best way forward
So I get regular blood tests yearly from the doctor to monitor cholesterol, liver etc due to having had a stroke many years ago, caused by an accident, not unhealthy living.
I also asked for a T test from the doctor, both documented above, within acceptable levels.
In between this I did a finger prick test with manual.co:
Testosterone: 10.9 nmol/L
Free Testosterone :0.183 nmol/l
SHBG: 39.7 nmol/l
Albumin: 47.7 g/l
This was non fasted and I know finger tests aren't always the best. based on the results they said I had low T and should have a follow up blood draw, I was slightly sceptical that this was not just thier default answer for everyone, so went to the men's health clinic and had a full test, TRT Complete Plus https://themenshealthclinic.co.uk/service/arrange-... Which tests 19 markers including PSA. All came back as green 'within range'. Speaking to the clinic whilst my results are within range, they still view them as low.
So that's where I currently am. I'm looking at the vitamins to see if they alleviate any of my symptoms before taking the decision to pursue TRT, which sounds like it a lifetime decision that is not easily reversible.
Cheers
Michael
I also asked for a T test from the doctor, both documented above, within acceptable levels.
In between this I did a finger prick test with manual.co:
Testosterone: 10.9 nmol/L
Free Testosterone :0.183 nmol/l
SHBG: 39.7 nmol/l
Albumin: 47.7 g/l
This was non fasted and I know finger tests aren't always the best. based on the results they said I had low T and should have a follow up blood draw, I was slightly sceptical that this was not just thier default answer for everyone, so went to the men's health clinic and had a full test, TRT Complete Plus https://themenshealthclinic.co.uk/service/arrange-... Which tests 19 markers including PSA. All came back as green 'within range'. Speaking to the clinic whilst my results are within range, they still view them as low.
So that's where I currently am. I'm looking at the vitamins to see if they alleviate any of my symptoms before taking the decision to pursue TRT, which sounds like it a lifetime decision that is not easily reversible.
Cheers
Michael
Hi Michael
I'm not in a dissimilar situation to you so I recently sought a test (finger test). Results are below with normal ranges in brackets.
Albumin 46.3 (35 - 50 g/L)
Free-Testosterone (Calculated) 0.257 (0.226 - 0.65 nmol/L)
SHBG 34.5 (18 - 40 nmol/L)
Testosterone 13.5 (12 - 30 nmol/L)
I had a test about 20 years ago and am sure my testosterone levels are the same as then at c. 13 nmol/L!
I'm at the bottom of normal range so not in clinical need and am erring towards not taking this any further, but there's a slight nag that I would benefit from support. Financially not a problem but I'm reluctant to do something I don't really need.
If I go for a full blood test, end up with similar results and clinic thinks there's some value in moving forward, what are the downsides of starting treatment, seeing how it goes then stopping after 6 months (say)? I think it's not a great idea as the body shuts down its own production so would take a while to get back to where it was etc. (if it does).
I'm not in a dissimilar situation to you so I recently sought a test (finger test). Results are below with normal ranges in brackets.
Albumin 46.3 (35 - 50 g/L)
Free-Testosterone (Calculated) 0.257 (0.226 - 0.65 nmol/L)
SHBG 34.5 (18 - 40 nmol/L)
Testosterone 13.5 (12 - 30 nmol/L)
I had a test about 20 years ago and am sure my testosterone levels are the same as then at c. 13 nmol/L!
I'm at the bottom of normal range so not in clinical need and am erring towards not taking this any further, but there's a slight nag that I would benefit from support. Financially not a problem but I'm reluctant to do something I don't really need.
If I go for a full blood test, end up with similar results and clinic thinks there's some value in moving forward, what are the downsides of starting treatment, seeing how it goes then stopping after 6 months (say)? I think it's not a great idea as the body shuts down its own production so would take a while to get back to where it was etc. (if it does).
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