Moving on from Stronglifts 5x5
Discussion
I have been using the Stronglift 5x5 app for a few months now. It’s been really useful as it’s simple, consistent, and incrementally increasing the weight and keeping a log really helps. I’m now lifting the most I’ve ever lifted.
The problem is, I want to increase in size rather than focus on strength and I am aware the 5x5 training app is not the best for this.
What exercises, sets and reps should I be looking to do for hypertrophy rather than strength?
I have looked on Google, but there is a ton of conflicting information but I think reducing the weight slightly and increasing the reps is the way to do it?
Any suggestions or routines appreciated.
The problem is, I want to increase in size rather than focus on strength and I am aware the 5x5 training app is not the best for this.
What exercises, sets and reps should I be looking to do for hypertrophy rather than strength?
I have looked on Google, but there is a ton of conflicting information but I think reducing the weight slightly and increasing the reps is the way to do it?
Any suggestions or routines appreciated.
You could do a push pull legs workout with 4x6 instead of 5x5. I find 4x6 a lot nicer and much faster even though it’s only one set per exercise less. Stronglifts is fine to start but you’ll have a massive lease of life and energy on your lifting when you’re not squatting every session.
I wouldn't say there's a ton of conflicting advice out there . It's pretty well known the differences in the way you should train for strength and hypertrophy.
Have a look here for starters
https://youtu.be/3abdfR8M5XY
Have a look here for starters
https://youtu.be/3abdfR8M5XY
Started on sl 5x5 but squatting so much became a chore so tried the reddit PPLPPL. Thiswas good but found it hard to schedule 6 sessions a week and ended up being run down
Changed to a PPLUL and again ended up run down and spending 90 mins to do each session so looked for something else. Downloaded boostcamp which is rubbish as a training scheduling app but inputted my details and wants then it recommended a few potential programs.
Have been running a program called Raider by a YouTuber called Bald Omni Man which is 4 days a week and pretty much:
Bench with upper body/arms
Deadlift with pull upper/legs
Rest
Shoulder press and upper body/arms
Squats/legs pull upper
Rest
Rest
I spent too long without a sorted diet so would advise you give that as much attention as the program you're running
Changed to a PPLUL and again ended up run down and spending 90 mins to do each session so looked for something else. Downloaded boostcamp which is rubbish as a training scheduling app but inputted my details and wants then it recommended a few potential programs.
Have been running a program called Raider by a YouTuber called Bald Omni Man which is 4 days a week and pretty much:
Bench with upper body/arms
Deadlift with pull upper/legs
Rest
Shoulder press and upper body/arms
Squats/legs pull upper
Rest
Rest
I spent too long without a sorted diet so would advise you give that as much attention as the program you're running
Edited by dai1983 on Saturday 31st August 17:19
Lots of steroid users offering advise on hypertrophy which makes finding info quite difficult. They will grow muscle sitting around masturbating all day.
Hypertrophy comes from pushing sets to failure with an explosive concentric and a very slow controlled eccentric phase. Tension when the muscle is fully stretched is believed to activate more muscle growth
eg preacher curls better than standing bicep curls for bicep growth as the muscle is at most tension at the bottom, where as with a standard curl with arms to the sides at the bottom there is no tension at all. It’s also easier to cheat and swing with a standard curl where as you’ll often want to isolate specific muscles you’re targeting with good technique
In terms of reps as long as you’re pushing to failure it doesn’t really matter. But going too heavy risks injury so getting to 8-12 to true failure is a healthy range. Going beyond that won’t do anything for stimulating growth. Have a decent rest between and go for 3-4 sets.
Muscle grow in recovery not in the gym. So good diet, rest, staying hydrated all helps. Creatine monohydrate supplements help with recovery
Smaller muscles recover faster than bigger ones. You might only want to train quads once a week but biceps could probably be hit 2-3x a week
Genetics play a huge factor in what works best, what muscles grow easier and under what stimulus, and how much muscle you can hold. You’ll go through some trial and error to find what works best for you
I’m still relatively new to this but I’ve had good progress following the above
Hypertrophy comes from pushing sets to failure with an explosive concentric and a very slow controlled eccentric phase. Tension when the muscle is fully stretched is believed to activate more muscle growth
eg preacher curls better than standing bicep curls for bicep growth as the muscle is at most tension at the bottom, where as with a standard curl with arms to the sides at the bottom there is no tension at all. It’s also easier to cheat and swing with a standard curl where as you’ll often want to isolate specific muscles you’re targeting with good technique
In terms of reps as long as you’re pushing to failure it doesn’t really matter. But going too heavy risks injury so getting to 8-12 to true failure is a healthy range. Going beyond that won’t do anything for stimulating growth. Have a decent rest between and go for 3-4 sets.
Muscle grow in recovery not in the gym. So good diet, rest, staying hydrated all helps. Creatine monohydrate supplements help with recovery
Smaller muscles recover faster than bigger ones. You might only want to train quads once a week but biceps could probably be hit 2-3x a week
Genetics play a huge factor in what works best, what muscles grow easier and under what stimulus, and how much muscle you can hold. You’ll go through some trial and error to find what works best for you
I’m still relatively new to this but I’ve had good progress following the above
Granted I don't lift for hypertrophy, but the above sounds like pretty solid, simple advice.
Can I ask SkinnyPete, when you've been training for strength, have you been eating for strength too (i.e. human dustbin) or just eating pretty normally and relying on the lifting? Just genuinely curious, no advice or judgement to give.
Can I ask SkinnyPete, when you've been training for strength, have you been eating for strength too (i.e. human dustbin) or just eating pretty normally and relying on the lifting? Just genuinely curious, no advice or judgement to give.
Brainpox said:
Lots of steroid users offering advise on hypertrophy which makes finding info quite difficult. They will grow muscle sitting around masturbating all day.
Hypertrophy comes from pushing sets to failure with an explosive concentric and a very slow controlled eccentric phase. Tension when the muscle is fully stretched is believed to activate more muscle growth
eg preacher curls better than standing bicep curls for bicep growth as the muscle is at most tension at the bottom, where as with a standard curl with arms to the sides at the bottom there is no tension at all. It’s also easier to cheat and swing with a standard curl where as you’ll often want to isolate specific muscles you’re targeting with good technique
In terms of reps as long as you’re pushing to failure it doesn’t really matter. But going too heavy risks injury so getting to 8-12 to true failure is a healthy range. Going beyond that won’t do anything for stimulating growth. Have a decent rest between and go for 3-4 sets.
Muscle grow in recovery not in the gym. So good diet, rest, staying hydrated all helps. Creatine monohydrate supplements help with recovery
Smaller muscles recover faster than bigger ones. You might only want to train quads once a week but biceps could probably be hit 2-3x a week
Genetics play a huge factor in what works best, what muscles grow easier and under what stimulus, and how much muscle you can hold. You’ll go through some trial and error to find what works best for you
I’m still relatively new to this but I’ve had good progress following the above
Not disagreeing with any of this ^^^^^^Hypertrophy comes from pushing sets to failure with an explosive concentric and a very slow controlled eccentric phase. Tension when the muscle is fully stretched is believed to activate more muscle growth
eg preacher curls better than standing bicep curls for bicep growth as the muscle is at most tension at the bottom, where as with a standard curl with arms to the sides at the bottom there is no tension at all. It’s also easier to cheat and swing with a standard curl where as you’ll often want to isolate specific muscles you’re targeting with good technique
In terms of reps as long as you’re pushing to failure it doesn’t really matter. But going too heavy risks injury so getting to 8-12 to true failure is a healthy range. Going beyond that won’t do anything for stimulating growth. Have a decent rest between and go for 3-4 sets.
Muscle grow in recovery not in the gym. So good diet, rest, staying hydrated all helps. Creatine monohydrate supplements help with recovery
Smaller muscles recover faster than bigger ones. You might only want to train quads once a week but biceps could probably be hit 2-3x a week
Genetics play a huge factor in what works best, what muscles grow easier and under what stimulus, and how much muscle you can hold. You’ll go through some trial and error to find what works best for you
I’m still relatively new to this but I’ve had good progress following the above
But
There are so many variables and physiologies are so different. Obviously with most famous "natty" bodybuilders / instagrammers etc. if the are a bit jacked, they are unlikely to actually be natty, so their recommendations for what works are always open to doubt.
Serge Nubret, not natty, had maybe the very best "pumping iron" era body and he mainly seems to have been doing 100 rep sets with very light weights.
It sounds like OP is pretty dedicated, so I would prioritise keeping a very accurate journal, particularly including bodypart measurements, obviously noting diet and training sets and reps and working out what works for him. At a very basic level that should mean establishing what split works best for him, how many days on / off etc. etc.
By all means test out the "muscle under tension hypertrophy" with the preacher curl bench for 8 weeks versus standing curls for 8 weeks. Data. data, data.
A few months is not a long time for any program. I managed 5x5 for almost 18 months before I started to plateau and switched programs. Give it a bit more time, and the size will come along with the strength. The Stronglifts app also has intermediate, plus, ultra, minimal, etc additional programs based on the same principles, some of which are more focussed on upper body hypertrophy if that is your aim. 5x5 is a beginner program, but it builds good foundations and allows you to master the basics without overcomplicating things.
mcelliott said:
Read the book Brawn by Stuart McRobert, details the basic principles of getting big and strong for the hardgainer.
The training cycles he suggests are way too long for a natty imo. I think his advice is mostly ok if simplistic.If I were starting again as a young man now, I’d do no more than three hour long sessions a week split no more than two ways. 4 sets a body part at most, more reps for size less for strength
But above anything I’d be realistic about what you can B achieve drug free. ‘Maybe’ a 1200 total ‘maybe’ 16 inch (non fat) arms with exceptional dedication. Almost certainly nothing that is going to raise more than half an eyebrow in everyday life
SkinnyPete said:
I’ve put 2.4kg on in 7 weeks, working out every other day and eating a balanced high protein diet.
Is that weight gain fair/sensible, or is there a risk I’m eating too much?
I certainly don’t feel like I’m putting fat on around my waist, which I think would be my warning sign.
Sounds about right, some of it will be muscle some fat and water, don't worry about gaining some fluff just don't go crazy, sounds like you're progressing nicely. I have some pretty mad pics somewhere of a bulk I did around 4yrs ago and how I look now.Is that weight gain fair/sensible, or is there a risk I’m eating too much?
I certainly don’t feel like I’m putting fat on around my waist, which I think would be my warning sign.
mcelliott said:
SkinnyPete said:
I’ve put 2.4kg on in 7 weeks, working out every other day and eating a balanced high protein diet.
Is that weight gain fair/sensible, or is there a risk I’m eating too much?
I certainly don’t feel like I’m putting fat on around my waist, which I think would be my warning sign.
Sounds about right, some of it will be muscle some fat and water, don't worry about gaining some fluff just don't go crazy, sounds like you're progressing nicely. I have some pretty mad pics somewhere of a bulk I did around 4yrs ago and how I look now.Is that weight gain fair/sensible, or is there a risk I’m eating too much?
I certainly don’t feel like I’m putting fat on around my waist, which I think would be my warning sign.
My goal is to gain another 4kg which will take me to 89kg/14 stone at 6’3, but without gaining a gut.
I’d like to get there by spring 2025 but not sure how realistic that is?
No doubt my friends will still call me skinny
I've used simple concurrent training for a while now. Different rep ranges on different days for squat, bench, oh press, deadlift and their variations. I used Andy baker's 8,5,2, so I'll do 3 sets of 8 reps for bench press one day. The next time I'll do sets of 5, the next sets of 2. The sets of 8 will be with less working weight than the sets of 5. The sets of 2 will be heaviest. You could probably do 12, 8, 5.
For accessories, I'm just doing sets of 12 plus still.
I'd try to keep getting stronger though by adding weight to the main lifts whatever the rep ranges used 👍
For accessories, I'm just doing sets of 12 plus still.
I'd try to keep getting stronger though by adding weight to the main lifts whatever the rep ranges used 👍
I’ll add: it’s not what you do it’s how you do it. I’ll look around me in my gym and almost everybody is just mucking about. Especially the steroid uses. It’s been like that in every gym I’ve trained in for 35 years.
Watch blood and guts I’m sure it’s on YouTube realize what actual training looks and sounds like
Watch blood and guts I’m sure it’s on YouTube realize what actual training looks and sounds like
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