Lack of sleep help!
Discussion
Morning all, I have been struggling with an inability to get a decent night's sleep for about a year or more now. I tend to get to bed at about 10.30 but wake up at about 5ish. I end up feeling pretty worn out come the early evening. My diet is reasonably good, I hardly drink and due to my job I get a fair amount of exercise.
Job wise I run my own tree surgery business which since starting out 5 years ago has grown nicely but it has some very stressful days and we undertake some very large jobs which take a huge amount of planning which does incur stress.
In a nutshell, is there anything I should or shouldn't be doing/trying? Many thanks
Job wise I run my own tree surgery business which since starting out 5 years ago has grown nicely but it has some very stressful days and we undertake some very large jobs which take a huge amount of planning which does incur stress.
In a nutshell, is there anything I should or shouldn't be doing/trying? Many thanks
What works for me, no eating 2hrs before bed, a stroll after my evening meal, limit phone use and kept away from the bedroom, room temp nice and cool, I also take a magnesium tablet that seems to work, also ashwagandha may have some benefits too, not sleeping sucks and like you I'm in a hugely physical job so not getting enough can you feel like utter dogs
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tCouple of things that stand out, you mention waking early, and stress. I assume you are waking at 5am and not able to get back to sleep? I have read, and this maybe some quackery but when you are stressed your cortisol rises, then when you sleep your body starts producing cortisol around 3am ish in order for it to peak around your normally getting up time. For people who are stressed it peaks early and wakes them up.
So try dealing with the stress, things that can calm you down a bit. You want to stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system. Some simple breathing exercises can help, deep breath in and longer breath out. Its the longer breath out thats key. Do that for a few minutes every day.
Also some supplements that have some evidence that may help. Magnesium, lot of people are deficient, try a supplement, its cheap, safe so nothing to lose really. Glycinate is the best variety. The other things is Inulin fibre, the vagus nerve goes from stomach to brain and this helps to stimulate that which also has a calming effect. It was looked at on a BBC program with that doctor whos name I have forgotten. I have been taking both of these for a while and had is led to improved sleep I feel.
The Inulin fibre has a double benefit, most people dont enough fibre in their diet anyway and a couple of large spoons fulls of this stuff will net you 10g, 1/3 of your minimum daily requirement. There is one minor down side, will give you some serious wind, I announced my waking this morning with a trumpet voluntary from my arse.
So try dealing with the stress, things that can calm you down a bit. You want to stimulate the parasympathetic nervous system. Some simple breathing exercises can help, deep breath in and longer breath out. Its the longer breath out thats key. Do that for a few minutes every day.
Also some supplements that have some evidence that may help. Magnesium, lot of people are deficient, try a supplement, its cheap, safe so nothing to lose really. Glycinate is the best variety. The other things is Inulin fibre, the vagus nerve goes from stomach to brain and this helps to stimulate that which also has a calming effect. It was looked at on a BBC program with that doctor whos name I have forgotten. I have been taking both of these for a while and had is led to improved sleep I feel.
The Inulin fibre has a double benefit, most people dont enough fibre in their diet anyway and a couple of large spoons fulls of this stuff will net you 10g, 1/3 of your minimum daily requirement. There is one minor down side, will give you some serious wind, I announced my waking this morning with a trumpet voluntary from my arse.
That’s 6.5 hours of good? continuous? sleep - not bad at all. 8 hours of continuous sleep per night isn’t a realistic amount for most people, teenagers excepted.
As mentioned on other sleep-related threads on here, there are evolutionary reasons why humans haven’t “slept through” the night until the last 250 or so years. Don’t get hung up on the amount of sleep you get - focus on getting good quality sleep, and see your GP if you are having problems with sleep deprivation affecting your waking hours.
As mentioned on other sleep-related threads on here, there are evolutionary reasons why humans haven’t “slept through” the night until the last 250 or so years. Don’t get hung up on the amount of sleep you get - focus on getting good quality sleep, and see your GP if you are having problems with sleep deprivation affecting your waking hours.
Waking up at 5am is probably not ideal if you set your alarm for later but 6.5hrs of sleep is still good. I’ve had this problem in phases in the past and what makes it worse and prolonged is constantly thinking about it especially as bedtime gets nearer. Its all in the mind. Try to relax and tell yourself that 6.5hrs sleep is good and if you wake up at 5am it’s no bother. If you have other stress on your mind it’s time to address that also.
6 1/2 hours of sleep - I dream of that!!!
Or more to the point, I don't.
Interesting post above about stress, I wonder if that might be my issue? I don't actually feel very stressed although people tell me that in my position, they would be because of the complex overstretched life I live.
Some good points in this thread.
Or more to the point, I don't.
Interesting post above about stress, I wonder if that might be my issue? I don't actually feel very stressed although people tell me that in my position, they would be because of the complex overstretched life I live.
Some good points in this thread.
Wacky Racer said:
Try either Boots "Sleepeze" or "Nytol" (Same thing) taken two hours before you go to bed.
No booze or coffee after 6pm
Don’t do this for more than one night every so often.No booze or coffee after 6pm
They are a short term solution that leads to long term dependence and a worsened sleep issues, if used regularly.
They also leave a bitter taste in one’s mouth for the day after use.
Nytol (and other) herbal tablets are not particularly worrying. Or particularly effective. Sedating antihistamines like Nytol one-a-night and Boots Sleepeaze are effective but should not be used long term. Not just because you can end up unable to sleep without them, but also because there are suspicions that overuse increases the risks of dementia.
Huge thanks for all the replies. I think that stress does play a part in it all. I never used to think of myself as a stressed person but since starting up the business and having it grown to the extent it has, the responsibility and stress of it I think has had an impact on me.
I make a point of not having any caffeine after midday at the latest, I don't drink (maybe a pint or equivalent a couple of times a week), mobile phone use I try to stop before bed. I will get some magnesium tablets and also some Ashwagandha this weekend. The whole thing is now making me feel quite exhausted and affecting my motivation to some extent, with some things feeling a bit overwhelming.
I make a point of not having any caffeine after midday at the latest, I don't drink (maybe a pint or equivalent a couple of times a week), mobile phone use I try to stop before bed. I will get some magnesium tablets and also some Ashwagandha this weekend. The whole thing is now making me feel quite exhausted and affecting my motivation to some extent, with some things feeling a bit overwhelming.
My average sleep duration for the last year was 8h 15m per night. I'm a huge advocate for good sleep, I'm my opinion it is more important than both diet and exercise in the holly health trinity.
Don't drink caffeine after 2pm. Caffeine has a half life of 5-7 hours, so a cup of tea of coffee consumed mid-afternoon is still going to be in your system when you go to bed. Your wake/sleep cycle is controlled by two things; Process C and Process S. Process C is your circadian rhythm, or body clock. Process S is sleep pressure, the accumulation of a sleep inducing chemical called adenosine. Adenosine builds from the moment you wake, until it reaches a point where it goes around the different parts of your brain telling them that it's time to go to sleep. Caffeine basically blocks those messages getting through, so tiredness is masked.
Alcohol is also terrible for sleep. It initially has the effect of a sedative, so you will fall to sleep quickly, but during the night it disrupts sleep patterns and decreases sleep quality, particularly that of REM sleep.
My attitude is to take an almost ritualistic approach to sleep, both before and during. No caffeine after lunch time, no phone use after 9pm, dinner at least two hours before bed, bed at the same time every night, read for the same time every night, drink water steadily during the day to combat hydration, 2-3 relaxing walks a day, wear earplugs in bed and buy a good pillow. Create an environment for sleep, it never ceases to amaze me how many people watch TV in bed. Reserve the bedroom for sleep only.
One thing I have found extremely beneficial is a hot drink of honey, ginger and lemon juice consumed half an hour before bed. The benefit is two fold; just the process of making it signals that it's the time to wind down, and secondly honey contains tryptophan, a hormone that helps relax and send sleep signals to the body.
Taking an active interest in sleep, and sleeping better has really been transformative for me.
Don't drink caffeine after 2pm. Caffeine has a half life of 5-7 hours, so a cup of tea of coffee consumed mid-afternoon is still going to be in your system when you go to bed. Your wake/sleep cycle is controlled by two things; Process C and Process S. Process C is your circadian rhythm, or body clock. Process S is sleep pressure, the accumulation of a sleep inducing chemical called adenosine. Adenosine builds from the moment you wake, until it reaches a point where it goes around the different parts of your brain telling them that it's time to go to sleep. Caffeine basically blocks those messages getting through, so tiredness is masked.
Alcohol is also terrible for sleep. It initially has the effect of a sedative, so you will fall to sleep quickly, but during the night it disrupts sleep patterns and decreases sleep quality, particularly that of REM sleep.
My attitude is to take an almost ritualistic approach to sleep, both before and during. No caffeine after lunch time, no phone use after 9pm, dinner at least two hours before bed, bed at the same time every night, read for the same time every night, drink water steadily during the day to combat hydration, 2-3 relaxing walks a day, wear earplugs in bed and buy a good pillow. Create an environment for sleep, it never ceases to amaze me how many people watch TV in bed. Reserve the bedroom for sleep only.
One thing I have found extremely beneficial is a hot drink of honey, ginger and lemon juice consumed half an hour before bed. The benefit is two fold; just the process of making it signals that it's the time to wind down, and secondly honey contains tryptophan, a hormone that helps relax and send sleep signals to the body.
Taking an active interest in sleep, and sleeping better has really been transformative for me.
Louis Balfour said:
Don’t do this for more than one night every so often.
They are a short term solution that leads to long term dependence and a worsened sleep issues, if used regularly.
They also leave a bitter taste in one’s mouth for the day after use.They are a short term solution that leads to long term dependence and a worsened sleep issues, if used regularly.
Not in my experience, but yes, they should not be taken for more than two or three days.
I've been using them on and off with no issues for several years, but as always, read the label.
ajap1979 said:
My average sleep duration for the last year was 8h 15m per night. I'm a huge advocate for good sleep, I'm my opinion it is more important than both diet and exercise in the holly health trinity.
Don't drink caffeine after 2pm. Caffeine has a half life of 5-7 hours, so a cup of tea of coffee consumed mid-afternoon is still going to be in your system when you go to bed. Your wake/sleep cycle is controlled by two things; Process C and Process S. Process C is your circadian rhythm, or body clock. Process S is sleep pressure, the accumulation of a sleep inducing chemical called adenosine. Adenosine builds from the moment you wake, until it reaches a point where it goes around the different parts of your brain telling them that it's time to go to sleep. Caffeine basically blocks those messages getting through, so tiredness is masked.
Alcohol is also terrible for sleep. It initially has the effect of a sedative, so you will fall to sleep quickly, but during the night it disrupts sleep patterns and decreases sleep quality, particularly that of REM sleep.
My attitude is to take an almost ritualistic approach to sleep, both before and during. No caffeine after lunch time, no phone use after 9pm, dinner at least two hours before bed, bed at the same time every night, read for the same time every night, drink water steadily during the day to combat hydration, 2-3 relaxing walks a day, wear earplugs in bed and buy a good pillow. Create an environment for sleep, it never ceases to amaze me how many people watch TV in bed. Reserve the bedroom for sleep only.
One thing I have found extremely beneficial is a hot drink of honey, ginger and lemon juice consumed half an hour before bed. The benefit is two fold; just the process of making it signals that it's the time to wind down, and secondly honey contains tryptophan, a hormone that helps relax and send sleep signals to the body.
Taking an active interest in sleep, and sleeping better has really been transformative for me.
Good post.Don't drink caffeine after 2pm. Caffeine has a half life of 5-7 hours, so a cup of tea of coffee consumed mid-afternoon is still going to be in your system when you go to bed. Your wake/sleep cycle is controlled by two things; Process C and Process S. Process C is your circadian rhythm, or body clock. Process S is sleep pressure, the accumulation of a sleep inducing chemical called adenosine. Adenosine builds from the moment you wake, until it reaches a point where it goes around the different parts of your brain telling them that it's time to go to sleep. Caffeine basically blocks those messages getting through, so tiredness is masked.
Alcohol is also terrible for sleep. It initially has the effect of a sedative, so you will fall to sleep quickly, but during the night it disrupts sleep patterns and decreases sleep quality, particularly that of REM sleep.
My attitude is to take an almost ritualistic approach to sleep, both before and during. No caffeine after lunch time, no phone use after 9pm, dinner at least two hours before bed, bed at the same time every night, read for the same time every night, drink water steadily during the day to combat hydration, 2-3 relaxing walks a day, wear earplugs in bed and buy a good pillow. Create an environment for sleep, it never ceases to amaze me how many people watch TV in bed. Reserve the bedroom for sleep only.
One thing I have found extremely beneficial is a hot drink of honey, ginger and lemon juice consumed half an hour before bed. The benefit is two fold; just the process of making it signals that it's the time to wind down, and secondly honey contains tryptophan, a hormone that helps relax and send sleep signals to the body.
Taking an active interest in sleep, and sleeping better has really been transformative for me.
Though I am wary about the ritual thing, in case something interrupts the ritual. Why? Because one of the biggest secrets to sleeping is believing you'll sleep. It accounts for something like 70% of why hypnotics (sleeping tablets) work. Personally, if I had a ritual and it was disrupted it would throw me out and I would stop believing I could sleep.
I too find ear plugs helpful, because it blocks out the early morning triggers for waking up - the boiler, the birds, those sorts of things. I am using Macks earplugs at the moment. The cheap foam ones are crap and not very healthy.
Louis Balfour said:
Though I am wary about the ritual thing, in case something interrupts the ritual. Why? Because one of the biggest secrets to sleeping is believing you'll sleep. It accounts for something like 70% of why hypnotics (sleeping tablets) work. Personally, if I had a ritual and it was disrupted it would throw me out and I would stop believing I could sleep.
I too find ear plugs helpful, because it blocks out the early morning triggers for waking up - the boiler, the birds, those sorts of things. I am using Macks earplugs at the moment. The cheap foam ones are crap and not very healthy.
Yeah, I completely agree with that. When I first started getting into Matthew Walker's stuff I did worry that I was becoming almost paranoid about the effects of sleep, or rather lack of sleep. I suppose more accurately, consistency is key. We're all creatures of habit after all. Maybe a Matthew Walker and James Clear collab is an idea!I too find ear plugs helpful, because it blocks out the early morning triggers for waking up - the boiler, the birds, those sorts of things. I am using Macks earplugs at the moment. The cheap foam ones are crap and not very healthy.
I use the Loop Quiet earplugs. They're great.
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