Private Healthcare Fee Negotiation.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

I was at the local private hospital last night with my wife. Nothing serious and thankfully we have insurance to cover it. But I saw on the wall an advert for Chrysalis Finance, aimed at maybe the elderly who don't have insurance, but are going private anyway because they can. It offered to spread the cost of your treatment over 3 or 5 years. Great, no problem there. But the thing that struck me, it was offering this service at zero apr. Just take the bill, divide it by 60, and pay it monthly over 5 years.

Now I doubt Chrysalis Finance are a charity. Clearly someone is paying them, so unless I'm missing something, it can only be the doctor/hospital.

He sees you for an initial consultation for say £300, tells you you need treatment costing £10K. You say "thanks very much but I can't afford that, so I'm going to have to go with the NHS". He then offers you the finance plan. Clearly he or she is paying a cut to the finance co, say 10%, but at least they are getting in £9K instead of nothing.

So I wonder, for anyone who is self financing their private treatment and can afford to pay upfront.....say you can't, see if they offer you a finance plan at no extra cost, and then ask how much of the bill they are sacrificing to the finance co, and then offer to pay that amount reduced amount the doctor will be keeping, in full, and not take the finance.

I think in that position I would always try and haggle anyway, regardless of finance, but a lot of people wouldn't. But it just shows, there is scope for some serious negotiation.

[Doofus]

They have a list of stuff they don't finance. Mostly cosmetic, but it includes oncology.

If I were to make a list of the reasons that I have health insurance, cancer would be at the top.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Doofus said:

They have a list of stuff they don't finance. Mostly cosmetic, but it includes oncology.

If I were to make a list of the reasons that I have health insurance, cancer would be at the top.

Makes sense, but the general principle is unchanged. Private medical treatment fees are not set in stone, and maybe up for negotiation. If they are prepared to give up a percentage to a finance co, they may be prepared to reduce by a percentage for anything, even if it's something finance isn't available for.

[simon_harris]

Doofus said:

They have a list of stuff they don't finance. Mostly cosmetic, but it includes oncology.

If I were to make a list of the reasons that I have health insurance, cancer would be at the top.

Private healthcare was no good for treating my cancer, in fact the consultant I was seeing for the initial diagnosis told me that she would be able to deal with me much more quickly through her NHS practice. This was on a wednesday, the following monday I was in her NHS department for an excision biopsy and by the thursday back with her for the results of said biopsy.

When I eventually needed chemo again the NHS provided better options, all the private healthcare did was give me a nice cheque to cover the "inconvenience" of sitting in an NHS ward to receive the infusions.

[ucb]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I was at the local private hospital last night with my wife. Nothing serious and thankfully we have insurance to cover it. But I saw on the wall an advert for Chrysalis Finance, aimed at maybe the elderly who don't have insurance, but are going private anyway because they can. It offered to spread the cost of your treatment over 3 or 5 years. Great, no problem there. But the thing that struck me, it was offering this service at zero apr. Just take the bill, divide it by 60, and pay it monthly over 5 years.

Now I doubt Chrysalis Finance are a charity. Clearly someone is paying them, so unless I'm missing something, it can only be the doctor/hospital.

He sees you for an initial consultation for say £300, tells you you need treatment costing £10K. You say "thanks very much but I can't afford that, so I'm going to have to go with the NHS". He then offers you the finance plan. Clearly he or she is paying a cut to the finance co, say 10%, but at least they are getting in £9K instead of nothing.

So I wonder, for anyone who is self financing their private treatment and can afford to pay upfront.....say you can't, see if they offer you a finance plan at no extra cost, and then ask how much of the bill they are sacrificing to the finance co, and then offer to pay that amount reduced amount the doctor will be keeping, in full, and not take the finance.

I think in that position I would always try and haggle anyway, regardless of finance, but a lot of people wouldn't. But it just shows, there is scope for some serious negotiation.

I can assure you that it wont be the doctors who are getting a kickback from financing the treatment. It will be the large private hospital groups.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

ucb said:

I can assure you that it wont be the doctors who are getting a kickback from financing the treatment. It will be the large private hospital groups.

If you read my post, neither the doctor nor the hospital are getting a kickback. The finance co are getting a kickback, assuming they aren't in business for........the good of their health (boom boom).

If they are prepared to pay a kickback to the finance co, they can pay it to you for paying in full!

[Stephanie Plum]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Clearly someone is paying them, so unless I'm missing something, it can only be the doctor/hospital.

???

What’s your point?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Stephanie Plum said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Clearly someone is paying them, so unless I'm missing something, it can only be the doctor/hospital.

???

What’s your point?

My point is, if the doctor or the hospital is prepared to sacrifice a percentage of the total cost of the treatment to a finance co so the patient can proceed with private treatment and pay monthly, there's no reason why they can't discount the patient by the same amount if they can pay in full.

If the hospital were going to end up with £9K instead of the £10K because they have to kickback a grand to the finance co, then if you're paying in full, they're no worse off giving you a grand off so you pay them £9K.

[ucb]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Stephanie Plum said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Clearly someone is paying them, so unless I'm missing something, it can only be the doctor/hospital.

???

What’s your point?

My point is, if the doctor or the hospital is prepared to sacrifice a percentage of the total cost of the treatment to a finance co so the patient can proceed with private treatment and pay monthly, there's no reason why they can't discount the patient by the same amount if they can pay in full.

If the hospital were going to end up with £9K instead of the £10K because they have to kickback a grand to the finance co, then if you're paying in full, they're no worse off giving you a grand off so you pay them £9K.

There is no reduction in the medical fees for finance arrangements with the hospital.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

ucb said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Stephanie Plum said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Clearly someone is paying them, so unless I'm missing something, it can only be the doctor/hospital.

???

What’s your point?

My point is, if the doctor or the hospital is prepared to sacrifice a percentage of the total cost of the treatment to a finance co so the patient can proceed with private treatment and pay monthly, there's no reason why they can't discount the patient by the same amount if they can pay in full.

If the hospital were going to end up with £9K instead of the £10K because they have to kickback a grand to the finance co, then if you're paying in full, they're no worse off giving you a grand off so you pay them £9K.

There is no reduction in the medical fees for finance arrangements with the hospital.

So if Chrysalis finance agree to finance my £6K medical treatment, and my repayments over 5 years (60 months) are £100/month, how are the finance co making a profit? If the finance co are paying up front to the hospital £6K, and they're getting back £6K over 5 years, they're out of pocket. They could have shut down the finance co, stuck that £6K in a savings account and got 5% a year compound. And ended up with £7650 give or take. And not had to employ staff etc.

Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Tuesday 5th March 16:28

[boyse7en]

ucb said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Stephanie Plum said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Clearly someone is paying them, so unless I'm missing something, it can only be the doctor/hospital.

???

What’s your point?

My point is, if the doctor or the hospital is prepared to sacrifice a percentage of the total cost of the treatment to a finance co so the patient can proceed with private treatment and pay monthly, there's no reason why they can't discount the patient by the same amount if they can pay in full.

If the hospital were going to end up with £9K instead of the £10K because they have to kickback a grand to the finance co, then if you're paying in full, they're no worse off giving you a grand off so you pay them £9K.

There is no reduction in the medical fees for finance arrangements with the hospital.

If that's the case, who is paying the Finance Company?
If the APR is 0% it's not the customer, so it must therefore be the private hospital/practitioner.
So if they are paying the Finance Company a percentage (5-10% probably) then they only get £9-9.5k.
That means that they could do it for £9k for cash if you asked

[ucb]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

ucb said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Stephanie Plum said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Clearly someone is paying them, so unless I'm missing something, it can only be the doctor/hospital.

???

What’s your point?

My point is, if the doctor or the hospital is prepared to sacrifice a percentage of the total cost of the treatment to a finance co so the patient can proceed with private treatment and pay monthly, there's no reason why they can't discount the patient by the same amount if they can pay in full.

If the hospital were going to end up with £9K instead of the £10K because they have to kickback a grand to the finance co, then if you're paying in full, they're no worse off giving you a grand off so you pay them £9K.

There is no reduction in the medical fees for finance arrangements with the hospital.

So if Chrysalis finance agree to finance my £6K medical treatment, and my repayments over 5 years (60 months) are £100/month, how are the finance co making a profit?

The hospital must be forgoing some profit

[TwigtheWonderkid]

ucb said:

There is no reduction in the medical fees for finance arrangements with the hospital.

followed by

ucb said:

The hospital must be forgoing some profit

Make your mind up!

If the hospital are forgoing some profit, they could forgo the same amount to someone paying in full, and be no worse off. That's kind of the sole point I'm making.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

boyse7en said:

If that's the case, who is paying the Finance Company?
If the APR is 0% it's not the customer, so it must therefore be the private hospital/practitioner.
So if they are paying the Finance Company a percentage (5-10% probably) then they only get £9-9.5k.
That means that they could do it for £9k for cash if you asked

Christ, I'm glad someone gets it. I was beginning to think I was going mad!

[Bill]

ucb said:

The hospital must be forgoing some profit

And the finance company are getting a discount for bulk. If you said you (realistically...) expected to be paying for 100 procedures this year then no doubt you could negotiate a discount too.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Thinking about it, with interest rates around 5%, and a loan being provided over 5 years to the punter at zero apr, the fee to the practitioner/hospital must be a damn sight higher than 5-10%. Probably closer to 20-25%.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Bill said:

ucb said:

The hospital must be forgoing some profit

And the finance company are getting a discount for bulk. If you said you (realistically...) expected to be paying for 100 procedures this year then no doubt you could negotiate a discount too.

Indeed, this is probably true. But bottom line, The hospital charge Mr X £10K, but they only get maybe £8K because he's on finance. If Mr Y, who can afford £10K, knows this, he can offer £8K for cash up front and the hospital are no worse off. Of course, if Mr Y has no idea about Mr X's arrangement, as I had no idea until yesterday, he might hand over the full £10K without any negotiation.

[Somebody]

Isn't it a version of invoice discounting? The patient mentions taking the finance option, the hospital inflates the cost by say 10%, sells it to the finance factor at 100%, the patient pays the factor 110% over time.

[ucb]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

ucb said:

There is no reduction in the medical fees for finance arrangements with the hospital.

followed by

ucb said:

The hospital must be forgoing some profit

Make your mind up!

If the hospital are forgoing some profit, they could forgo the same amount to someone paying in full, and be no worse off. That's kind of the sole point I'm making.

You are confusing medical fees and the hospital fees.
Medical fees are set by the surgeons and doctors for their work - outpatients, inpatients and their time during procedures.
Hospital fees are set by the hospitals for equipment, theatre space, bursing, hotel services etc.

The hospitals will often collect the overall fee (not always)

[TwigtheWonderkid]

ucb said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

ucb said:

There is no reduction in the medical fees for finance arrangements with the hospital.

followed by

ucb said:

The hospital must be forgoing some profit

Make your mind up!

If the hospital are forgoing some profit, they could forgo the same amount to someone paying in full, and be no worse off. That's kind of the sole point I'm making.

You are confusing medical fees and the hospital fees.
Medical fees are set by the surgeons and doctors for their work - outpatients, inpatients and their time during procedures.
Hospital fees are set by the hospitals for equipment, theatre space, bursing, hotel services etc.

The hospitals will often collect the overall fee (not always)

All I was alluding to was the total cost of the treatment. I have no idea how it's made up, and I don't care. Neither does any punter.