Help getting my dad into a home
Discussion
I have previously posted about my poor old Dad having dementia, well it's getting worse, we have managed to get him some care to visit him daily but it won't be long until that's not enough and he will need some live in care.
Over the last few years the NHS and local council departments have been a lot less than helpful. It's been a complete nightmare getting to this stage.
Sadly we didn't realize power of attorney would be required and it's now too late to get it as he is not well enough to consent. He doesn't have a huge amount in the bank but it's just over the threshold to get free care. I can't afford to pay for care.
What do I do? Do I have to have him sectioned or something like that?
I just wondered if anyone here had experience getting someone into funded full time care. Every official channel we try seems to take us back round in circles ...
Over the last few years the NHS and local council departments have been a lot less than helpful. It's been a complete nightmare getting to this stage.
Sadly we didn't realize power of attorney would be required and it's now too late to get it as he is not well enough to consent. He doesn't have a huge amount in the bank but it's just over the threshold to get free care. I can't afford to pay for care.
What do I do? Do I have to have him sectioned or something like that?
I just wondered if anyone here had experience getting someone into funded full time care. Every official channel we try seems to take us back round in circles ...
My father in law (80 now) has lived with us for 18 years. He fell over in January last year and broke his hip. He has been unable to walk or do anything for himself since and after his was discharged from hospital he went into car to recover buy as we predicted he never did and has been bed ridden since. On the way he has been diagosed with vascular dementia. He has never had anything so was under the threshold savings wise (£14k IIRC) but it was hard work with the council wanting us to pay for an element of his care which I declined for a number of reasons. Ultimately once his on funds get below the threshold the local authority should pay.
Ziplobb said:
My father in law (80 now) has lived with us for 18 years. He fell over in January last year and broke his hip. He has been unable to walk or do anything for himself since and after his was discharged from hospital he went into car to recover buy as we predicted he never did and has been bed ridden since. On the way he has been diagosed with vascular dementia. He has never had anything so was under the threshold savings wise (£14k IIRC) but it was hard work with the council wanting us to pay for an element of his care which I declined for a number of reasons. Ultimately once his on funds get below the threshold the local authority should pay.
Sorry to hear that. It's so difficult isn't it!He had a minor fire (burnt toast) yesterday which has moved the process along. Apparently the fire brigade rang social services...
Firstly I'm sorry to hear about your Dad.
Trying to help him without an LPA in place is not going to be simple or easy - I believe that a Court of Protection order may be needed instead but that will take perhaps 6 months to get in place.
There have been various threads on here fairly recently and one poster produced a link to something called a guide to" NHS Continuing Healthcare Funding Assessments " -I cannot quickly locate this for you but hopefully he will see this and repost that link. Fyi iirc it was to do with managing to help his Mum out of a potentially similar situation -you can buy the book but it costs around £ 60 I believe.
I cannot recall whether she had money over the min limit of £23k or not but may be worth you searching.
As regards your Dad if he has some savings over that minimum limit then the NHS will try very hard to get them off him first !
Trying to help him without an LPA in place is not going to be simple or easy - I believe that a Court of Protection order may be needed instead but that will take perhaps 6 months to get in place.
There have been various threads on here fairly recently and one poster produced a link to something called a guide to" NHS Continuing Healthcare Funding Assessments " -I cannot quickly locate this for you but hopefully he will see this and repost that link. Fyi iirc it was to do with managing to help his Mum out of a potentially similar situation -you can buy the book but it costs around £ 60 I believe.
I cannot recall whether she had money over the min limit of £23k or not but may be worth you searching.
As regards your Dad if he has some savings over that minimum limit then the NHS will try very hard to get them off him first !
alscar said:
Firstly I'm sorry to hear about your Dad.
Trying to help him without an LPA in place is not going to be simple or easy - I believe that a Court of Protection order may be needed instead but that will take perhaps 6 months to get in place.
There have been various threads on here fairly recently and one poster produced a link to something called a guide to" NHS Continuing Healthcare Funding Assessments " -I cannot quickly locate this for you but hopefully he will see this and repost that link. Fyi iirc it was to do with managing to help his Mum out of a potentially similar situation -you can buy the book but it costs around £ 60 I believe.
I cannot recall whether she had money over the min limit of £23k or not but may be worth you searching.
As regards your Dad if he has some savings over that minimum limit then the NHS will try very hard to get them off him first !
Thank you. I'll have a search for that guide.Trying to help him without an LPA in place is not going to be simple or easy - I believe that a Court of Protection order may be needed instead but that will take perhaps 6 months to get in place.
There have been various threads on here fairly recently and one poster produced a link to something called a guide to" NHS Continuing Healthcare Funding Assessments " -I cannot quickly locate this for you but hopefully he will see this and repost that link. Fyi iirc it was to do with managing to help his Mum out of a potentially similar situation -you can buy the book but it costs around £ 60 I believe.
I cannot recall whether she had money over the min limit of £23k or not but may be worth you searching.
As regards your Dad if he has some savings over that minimum limit then the NHS will try very hard to get them off him first !
More than happy for the council to take the money. It's not enough to worry about but it is over £23k.
Just want them to help really, it's been virtually impossible to get any guidance from them.
drgoatboy said:
Thank you. I'll have a search for that guide.
More than happy for the council to take the money. It's not enough to worry about but it is over £23k.
Just want them to help really, it's been virtually impossible to get any guidance from them.
The thread was" Care home finance query" and the link was provided by Ziggy but for some reason I can't attach it.More than happy for the council to take the money. It's not enough to worry about but it is over £23k.
Just want them to help really, it's been virtually impossible to get any guidance from them.
I found with both my MIL and my Aunt that as you say trying to get a straight answer from the NHS was pretty impossible and I guess this is all down to funding limitations or otherwise.
I'm loathe to suggest it but you may find the local GP may be able to assist too.
I'd definitely start with his GP - take him along, discuss the problems he's having, ask for help.
We started with the GP with my Mum, got referred to the "memory team" then through that a social worker got involved, and was a consistent contact throughout, although ultimately she was put into a home directly from the hospital, and was given continuing care from the outset, but she had deteriorated significantly due to a stroke/brain bleed by that point.
Without the initial assistance of the GP we'd never have known where to start or who to contact.
We started with the GP with my Mum, got referred to the "memory team" then through that a social worker got involved, and was a consistent contact throughout, although ultimately she was put into a home directly from the hospital, and was given continuing care from the outset, but she had deteriorated significantly due to a stroke/brain bleed by that point.
Without the initial assistance of the GP we'd never have known where to start or who to contact.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Linking in some other posts in case it's helpful for others.
Linking in some other posts in case it's helpful for others.
alscar said:
The thread was" Care home finance query" and the link was provided by Ziggy but for some reason I can't attach it.
I found with both my MIL and my Aunt that as you say trying to get a straight answer from the NHS was pretty impossible and I guess this is all down to funding limitations or otherwise.
I'm loathe to suggest it but you may find the local GP may be able to assist too.
Found it thank you!!I found with both my MIL and my Aunt that as you say trying to get a straight answer from the NHS was pretty impossible and I guess this is all down to funding limitations or otherwise.
I'm loathe to suggest it but you may find the local GP may be able to assist too.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Motorman74 said:
I'd definitely start with his GP - take him along, discuss the problems he's having, ask for help.
We started with the GP with my Mum, got referred to the "memory team" then through that a social worker got involved, and was a consistent contact throughout, although ultimately she was put into a home directly from the hospital, and was given continuing care from the outset, but she had deteriorated significantly due to a stroke/brain bleed by that point.
Without the initial assistance of the GP we'd never have known where to start or who to contact.
We did the gp and memory clinic route 2 years ago. That's how we got the diagnosis but they then discharged him. He refused to pay for care so they washed their hands of it! We started with the GP with my Mum, got referred to the "memory team" then through that a social worker got involved, and was a consistent contact throughout, although ultimately she was put into a home directly from the hospital, and was given continuing care from the outset, but she had deteriorated significantly due to a stroke/brain bleed by that point.
Without the initial assistance of the GP we'd never have known where to start or who to contact.
We've been going round in circles ever since.
Firstly, so sorry to hear about your dad.
We've been through this with MIL, we had to use her savings to self fund for around 14-16 months until she reached the £23k threshold, it took a lot of meetings and wrangling to get the council to take over her care, she had neuroendocrine bowel cancer and had a complete mental breakdown.
We're now going through it with my dad, his health started deteriorating during the year, since the start of October he's been in and out of hospital 6 times, gradually getting worse every time he was sent home, the fifth time he was sent home I told them he wouldn't be home for long but the hospital insisted that the 4 care visits a day were sufficient.
Two days after being sent home he removed the dressings from his legs, cut his catheter off and put a cottage pie and a fork in the microwave and set it going, it was only the carers turning up to do his lunch that stopped a fire.
When he went back into hospital I refused to sanction him being sent home again, raised complaints with social services, his Dr's, PALS (Patient Advice and Liaison Service) at the hospital and registered a case with the CQC, Care Quality Commission.
This finally triggered the hospital to perform a mental cognitive assessment which he failed resulting in the diagnosis of dementia.
I'm now in talks with all parties to arrange residential care for him to be fully assessed.
It helps that he has no savings, he's a life long council resident and already lives in a warden assisted flat.
We've been through this with MIL, we had to use her savings to self fund for around 14-16 months until she reached the £23k threshold, it took a lot of meetings and wrangling to get the council to take over her care, she had neuroendocrine bowel cancer and had a complete mental breakdown.
We're now going through it with my dad, his health started deteriorating during the year, since the start of October he's been in and out of hospital 6 times, gradually getting worse every time he was sent home, the fifth time he was sent home I told them he wouldn't be home for long but the hospital insisted that the 4 care visits a day were sufficient.
Two days after being sent home he removed the dressings from his legs, cut his catheter off and put a cottage pie and a fork in the microwave and set it going, it was only the carers turning up to do his lunch that stopped a fire.
When he went back into hospital I refused to sanction him being sent home again, raised complaints with social services, his Dr's, PALS (Patient Advice and Liaison Service) at the hospital and registered a case with the CQC, Care Quality Commission.
This finally triggered the hospital to perform a mental cognitive assessment which he failed resulting in the diagnosis of dementia.
I'm now in talks with all parties to arrange residential care for him to be fully assessed.
It helps that he has no savings, he's a life long council resident and already lives in a warden assisted flat.
Thank you everyone for your supporting words and advice. So very much appreciated...
Quick update, a faulty toaster and an absent memory lead to a very minor fire. My Dad called the fire brigade who dealt with it. But in speaking to him and seeing his behavior realized he needs help and contacted social services.
They have now intervened and Dad is getting 3 time a day visit to help him with meals and the such like.
They will fund up to a year, with a view my brother i I will apply through the court of protection to become deputies at which point he will be means tested and the money around the relevant limits will be recouped.
This is fantastic, he is finally getting some proper care and as far as he is concerned the council is funding it...
Quick update, a faulty toaster and an absent memory lead to a very minor fire. My Dad called the fire brigade who dealt with it. But in speaking to him and seeing his behavior realized he needs help and contacted social services.
They have now intervened and Dad is getting 3 time a day visit to help him with meals and the such like.
They will fund up to a year, with a view my brother i I will apply through the court of protection to become deputies at which point he will be means tested and the money around the relevant limits will be recouped.
This is fantastic, he is finally getting some proper care and as far as he is concerned the council is funding it...
drgoatboy said:
Motorman74 said:
I'd definitely start with his GP - take him along, discuss the problems he's having, ask for help.
We started with the GP with my Mum, got referred to the "memory team" then through that a social worker got involved, and was a consistent contact throughout, although ultimately she was put into a home directly from the hospital, and was given continuing care from the outset, but she had deteriorated significantly due to a stroke/brain bleed by that point.
Without the initial assistance of the GP we'd never have known where to start or who to contact.
We did the gp and memory clinic route 2 years ago. That's how we got the diagnosis but they then discharged him. He refused to pay for care so they washed their hands of it! We started with the GP with my Mum, got referred to the "memory team" then through that a social worker got involved, and was a consistent contact throughout, although ultimately she was put into a home directly from the hospital, and was given continuing care from the outset, but she had deteriorated significantly due to a stroke/brain bleed by that point.
Without the initial assistance of the GP we'd never have known where to start or who to contact.
We've been going round in circles ever since.
There's more info in this link in case it's helpful
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
EDIT - just noticed that you had already found it
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
EDIT - just noticed that you had already found it
Edited by ziggy328 on Sunday 24th December 16:18
cliffords said:
My feelings with you . I have been there , as already written, go to the GP , this is the best option now . I had POA but it's not all you think, the care home will really want a GP comment as well.
Certainly feels that way. Sadly we tried to get him to the gp. They did a urine sample said it was fine and sent him on his way.Shocking.
I don’t want to repeat everything from the other thread that is linked. Have a read. However, he clearly needs care. The LA agree. They are providing it. For now.
What you need to do is establish whether a primary health care need exists. To do this get the NHS to conduct a checklist. If that establishes that a PHN exists responsibility should NOT have been passed to the LA
That’s your first step.
ETA. If you have any questions I’m happy to help to the best of my abilities. I hope you have a good Christmas all.
What you need to do is establish whether a primary health care need exists. To do this get the NHS to conduct a checklist. If that establishes that a PHN exists responsibility should NOT have been passed to the LA
That’s your first step.
ETA. If you have any questions I’m happy to help to the best of my abilities. I hope you have a good Christmas all.
Edited by ziggy328 on Sunday 24th December 20:57
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