Full hip replacement abroad

[gobuddygo]

Hi all,

Just over 5 years ago I had my left hip replaced it was in a private hospital funded by the NHS, I had to wait less than 10 weeks between seeing the consultant and the operation, I could have had it earlier but had a holiday booked.

Fast forward to beginning of last month when the same consultant confirmed I need my right hip needs replacing, it will be at least 7 months once get on the list which I'm still waiting for.

I have been exploring going private here and abroad, been quoted between £13k to £14k with the same consultant and hospital.

I've done some research into getting the op done abroad Lithuania and Poland seem to be about 1/2 the cost of the UK, they seem to get fantastic reviews and the aftercare seems great.

Has anyone had any experience of having replacement joints done abroad?

[Encore Dj]

My mate, ex-army and power lifter had his hip done here, Lithuania…

https://www.nordesthetics.com/en/orthopaedic-surge...

Screenshot of the conversation I just had with him…

[The_Doc]

"Abroad" is a big place,

but the usual list of countries people quote for this.... I wouldn't.

Lots of countries are amazing at it, but you'll pay Eu18,000+ or $65,000 there

5% of people have a problem after such surgery, and you're a long long long way away from the lady or man who should be sorting it out for you.

Obviously, obviously the NHS should be better, but rolling the dice like this?

[gobuddygo]

The_Doc said:

"Abroad" is a big place

Sorry, I should have said Europe, I doubt flying back from Thailand for example would be sensible.

[The Wedding Dj]

The_Doc said:

"Abroad" is a big place,

but the usual list of countries people quote for this.... I wouldn't.

Lots of countries are amazing at it, but you'll pay Eu18,000+ or $65,000 there

5% of people have a problem after such surgery, and you're a long long long way away from the lady or man who should be sorting it out for you.

Obviously, obviously the NHS should be better, but rolling the dice like this?

5% sounds a bit high. Is that NHS data?

[gobuddygo]

Encore Dj said:

My mate, ex-army and power lifter had his hip done here, Lithuania…

https://www.nordesthetics.com/en/orthopaedic-surge...

They do get great reviews, I've joined their FB group which has lots of satisfied customers, getting from Leeds to Lithuania might be an issue but not insurmountable, thx

[The_Doc]

The Wedding Dj said:

5% sounds a bit high. Is that NHS data?

World data, small problems, big problems, 1% of them dislocate in the first year (1% of the well-performed ones), wound infections, etc etc.
It's not fire and forget surgery

[The Wedding Dj]

Do you have a link to that 5% world data?

My research suggests 2%

I only ask as I’m currently looking into the history of my, sadly now non-existent, family business that amongst other things, where quite influential in the manufacturing of hip replacements. ‘Down Brothers Mayer and Phelps.’

You may have heard of them?

[Desiderata]

I'm planning on a visit to Lithuania in January for the first of two knee replacements. I've just retired (at 60) and don't relish the idea of spending the first few years of my retirement immobile and in pain waiting for the NHS to get their fingers out.
Not only are the costs about half of a UK private operation, the Lithuanian hospital seems to offer a far better service all round.
I initially looked at them for cost reasons, but having done some research, I think I'd be going there by choice even if there wasn't such a cost disparity.

[The_Doc]

The Wedding Dj said:

Do you have a link to that 5% world data?

My research suggests 2%

Data reporting varies wildly, but here the Americans report "thirty-day readmission rates are 5.56% and 3.21% for inpatient TKA and THA, respectively, and 4% and 2.95% for outpatient TKA and THA, respectively "
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC90010...
Now that's pretty terrible, but the USA is a wild wild west for billing and aftercare, some of it is bundled in to the $40k to $60k initial price and they literally make their own rules on discharge and readmission.

Infection rates up to 2% https://eor.bioscientifica.com/configurable/conten...
VTE rates up to 5% in 90 days: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedic...

Cardiovascular complications: "adverse effects of THR observed during the 30-day follow-up period were septic shock (0.59%), MI or cardiac arrest needing resuscitation (0.36%), and pulmonary embolism (0.31%)."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC59077...

All these 1s and 2s add up, and that's without a 2-3 hr flight immediately after major surgery.

Most countries don't mandate their surgeons to input work and implant surveillance data, but the Scandinavians did it first, then Oz and us.
Again, open market conditions (non governmental healthcare systems)means you'll only publish your data if it drives sales forwards, and this is a Governance minefield. All UK data, NHS and private goes into our registry.


THis is a list of implants reported to our regulator as the data shows poor or concerning performance. Note how some are still in use despite the alarm bells ringing.

Check out the full list: https://reports.njrcentre.org.uk/implants

What implants are your unknown surgeons using? They are supposed to last 20 yrs, not 20 days or 20 months. Lots of happy people at 6 months is not good data yet. The ASR system failed later than this, as did the Capital hip and recently a very well known combination of PS knee replacement.

The Nord Clinic appears to contribute data, but the page that is available doesn't inspire confidence in me:
And their exclusion page for dealing with complications is worrying in it's list of, well exclusions.

So, its a minefield and proper data and regulation of what metallic objects are put into your body is important. I can't speak Lithuanian and I can speak English.
There are centres of excellence, and 15+ years of centrally collected data establishes this.
Ignore the websites

[hmg]

gobuddygo said:

Hi all,

Just over 5 years ago I had my left hip replaced it was in a private hospital funded by the NHS, I had to wait less than 10 weeks between seeing the consultant and the operation, I could have had it earlier but had a holiday booked.

My mum had hers done in January this year out of our local area after a tip off/ recommendation…. exactly as described above so unless things have changed in the last 11months..?

Isn’t it a postcode lottery ?

[gobuddygo]

The_Doc said:

Lots of interesting stuff

Thanks for that, But I really would like real world experiences of having a THR in Europe, having it done at great expense in the UK does not guarantee it will be 100% successful, UK private hospitals keep you in for 2-3 days than your on your own, the ones in Europe seem to give you physio and after care for 7-10 days at least.

[speedster986]

The future is going towards ‘day case’ hip replacements. Early mobilisation and return to normal activity is being shown to have better outcomes. Staying 7-10 days in a hospital is not necessarily better. Unfortunately I only see the bad side of patients travelling abroad for surgery (the complications) but I accept I will have a skewed view.

[ATG]

gobuddygo said:

The_Doc said:

Lots of interesting stuff

Thanks for that, But I really would like real world experiences of having a THR in Europe, having it done at great expense in the UK does not guarantee it will be 100% successful, UK private hospitals keep you in for 2-3 days than your on your own, the ones in Europe seem to give you physio and after care for 7-10 days at least.

You're asking for anecdotes in favour of data. Sounds like you're really asking for confirmation of a decision already taken.

[Dadof2]

No comment on the quality/risk etc but even post Brexit you can with prior authorisation get part or most of the cost of being treated abroad funded

https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad...

Basically by arguing that the nhs wait time is unreasonable/longer than ideal with support from your surgeon (which they would agree with as 7 months is longer than the 18 week waiting times target)

[The_Doc]

Dadof2 said:

No comment on the quality/risk etc but even post Brexit you can with prior authorisation get part or most of the cost of being treated abroad funded

https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad...

Basically by arguing that the nhs wait time is unreasonable/longer than ideal with support from your surgeon (which they would agree with as 7 months is longer than the 18 week waiting times target)

"The requested treatment is available under the treating country's state healthcare scheme."

So no pay-for-surgery abroad, unless as shown in the example, "for an operation that costs £8,000, of which you're expected to pay a standard patient co-payment charge of 25%, you'll pay £2,000. The NHS will pay the remaining £6,000 to the healthcare provider treating you."
Read Euros8000 and Euros2000 or similar.

Very many European countries have entirely privatised healthcare, with no central NHS, but compulsory healthcare insurance purchase by all citizens, often at about 8-9% of Basic rate tax incomes. So their systems run on Capitalism rules, not Socialism like the NHS, and funding is direct from pay packet deductions. Hospitals have to break even, unlike NHS which always runs at a loss.
France for example, has an excellent healthcare system, but co-payment of 20% is common and the government subsidises national insurance programs.

I can't comment on how successful or rapid this application route is.
Interestingly under money-follows patient ethos, you take your virtual money with you abroad, and the NHS simply doesn't spend it on you in the UK.
But we still have to sort out all the aftercare and problems.
You also have to pick your treating hospital, and under a capitalistic system this is like picking a restaurant meal.
Shiny website? Shiny sign outside? Random guess? Inspect their latest Food Safety Report? Inspect their 10 year performance data, if they have it? Go off local recommendation? Give it a go and see if you get sick?

The NHS as a whole is broken, but for orthopaedic surgery we have the highest data quality and inspection standards of anywhere in the world. When the work gets done, it is generally safe.
There are now reports delivered to hospitals (private and NHS) every year showing surgeons how they compare to the peer group and informing hospital managers if surgeons deviate from accepted standards.

[gobuddygo]

ATG said:

You're asking for anecdotes in favour of data. Sounds like you're really asking for confirmation of a decision already taken.

I've not made up my mind yet, but as the pain is already a lot worse than when I had my left hip done, if I have to wait 7+ months I wont be able to work, Yes I'm asking for anecdotes as a lot of different countries seem to offer this service and like anything else you only ever see the good reviews not the bad.

If needs be I will go private in the UK.

[Desiderata]

The_Doc said:

The NHS as a whole is broken, but for orthopaedic surgery we have the highest data quality and inspection standards of anywhere in the world. When the work gets done, it is generally safe.
There are now reports delivered to hospitals (private and NHS) every year showing surgeons how they compare to the peer group and informing hospital managers if surgeons deviate from accepted standards.

I've underlined the key point for me. I've just retired and may have 15 or 20 healthy years ahead of I'm lucky. I don't want to spend a big chunk of that in chronic pain and struggling to do anything whilst waiting for the NHS to juggle their figures.

[hmg]

gobuddygo said:

Hi all,

Just over 5 years ago I had my left hip replaced it was in a private hospital funded by the NHS, I had to wait less than 10 weeks between seeing the consultant and the operation, I could have had it earlier but had a holiday booked.

My mum had hers done in January this year out of our local area after a tip off/ recommendation…. exactly as described above so unless things have changed in the last 11months..?

Isn’t it a postcode lottery ?

[gobuddygo]

I contacted the hospital where I'm due to go for my hip replacement around September for a quote to go private with them £15,500 earliest they can do it is April.

I've discounted Lithuania as no flights from Leeds/Bradford (I live 6 miles away) booked to fly out to Poland early February 3 days in hospital, opp done on 2nd day then 14 days in a hotel physiotherapist visits every day.

Even with flights and special insurance it works out just under half of what I've been quoted in the UK.

Looking forward to a pain free summer

If anyone's interested I will update this thread with my progress.