Breakdown of chondral surface of patella
Discussion
Hi all, looking for some advice with running.
I've never been into running in a big way but have done parkrun a fair bit in the past with a best time around 22 minutes. I also used to play a lot of squash playing to a decent standard in a league.
The last couple of years I've had problems with my knees with aches and pains. I decided to do something about it this year and went and saw a consultant privately. I had some MRI scans on my knees which revealed a breakdown of the chondral surface of the patella on both knees with mild fat pad impingement. My joints are very flexible too which I believe could also attribute to the pain.
I asked the consultant about activities and he said parkrun's fine but not to do marathons etc. I then went and saw the physio who the consultant recommended and he's said there are various studies that say that running doesn't cause knee problems.
It seems everyone you speak to about this says different things as to what activities to do and not do. I suppose cycling is the obvious answer to exercise but I don't really enjoy that like I do running and it takes more time up which is difficult with a young family.
I want to continue being fit and healthy but I don't want to cause further damage to my knees and need knee replacements early in life. I suppose I'm just looking for advice really or stories from people who have similar.
For reference, I'm a 36 year old male 6' 3 approx. 15 stone. I could do with being about 14 stone really for my build. I also do a bit of weight training but don't tend to train heavy these days.
Andrew
I've never been into running in a big way but have done parkrun a fair bit in the past with a best time around 22 minutes. I also used to play a lot of squash playing to a decent standard in a league.
The last couple of years I've had problems with my knees with aches and pains. I decided to do something about it this year and went and saw a consultant privately. I had some MRI scans on my knees which revealed a breakdown of the chondral surface of the patella on both knees with mild fat pad impingement. My joints are very flexible too which I believe could also attribute to the pain.
I asked the consultant about activities and he said parkrun's fine but not to do marathons etc. I then went and saw the physio who the consultant recommended and he's said there are various studies that say that running doesn't cause knee problems.
It seems everyone you speak to about this says different things as to what activities to do and not do. I suppose cycling is the obvious answer to exercise but I don't really enjoy that like I do running and it takes more time up which is difficult with a young family.
I want to continue being fit and healthy but I don't want to cause further damage to my knees and need knee replacements early in life. I suppose I'm just looking for advice really or stories from people who have similar.
For reference, I'm a 36 year old male 6' 3 approx. 15 stone. I could do with being about 14 stone really for my build. I also do a bit of weight training but don't tend to train heavy these days.
Andrew
You're similar age and build to me so hopefully some of the below is relevant and helpful but one thing I've learnt over a decade of running is injuries are complicated and unique to the individual, not to mention really frustrating and mentally difficult at times.
I find when I'm fit and running with no injuries, my mood increases dramatically. Work and family life can be stressful for anyone but running definitely is a big escape from that, also socially if you have friends that run or even attend parkruns with strangers. So I wouldn't give up on it unless you absolutely have to.
I've had bad injuries to my right knee, a torn ACL 15 years ago playing football which was successfully repaired, but once you've had a knee injury of that magnitude it's never quite the same. I also had a meniscus repair at the same time but that broke down around 5 years ago and I had a second operation to remove around 20% of the meniscus in the knee.
I find the more I do the stronger the knee gets, within sensible boundaries. When I rest for a few weeks it starts to grind and grumble, I honestly think the best thing you can do for bad knees is cycling and sensible lower body weight training. The issues I've had with injuries since I started running around 2013 haven't been directly knee related, but it's possible they are linked to my running form.
I've had achillies tendon issues, adductor tendon issues and briefly plantar fasciitis, but really it's the first two that I still struggle with. I've seen a couple of physios, a chiropractor and a running coach to try and get to the bottom of why I keep getting calf/achillies issues, but nobody has really made any inroads into it other than to strengthen my calves and glutes, which works to a point.
The problem I have is I'm quite competitive with myself, and not naturally gifted at running, so I was desperately trying to crack a 20 minute 5k and never got closer than 21 minutes before the training load caused an injury. I've learnt with time to just do as much as the body will allow me to, and listen to the aches and pains because they're there for a reason. You start to learn the difference between a tired muscle or an injured one.
I do 5k a couple of times a week now and that's enough for me, I've finally accepted I'm happy to just be able to run. It sounds like your injury is wear and tear so I would think strengthening and keeping your mileage sensible would be the way to go, and build up very slowly. After my most recent injury I limited myself to just parkrun every week for 8 weeks before adding a second run in, which was really tough when I was desperate to go out for a run midweek because I felt good, but touch wood everything is holding up at the moment.
Good luck. Also maybe give the squash another go, a little bit of twisting and turning could help strengthen the knees if you're able to take it steady.
I find when I'm fit and running with no injuries, my mood increases dramatically. Work and family life can be stressful for anyone but running definitely is a big escape from that, also socially if you have friends that run or even attend parkruns with strangers. So I wouldn't give up on it unless you absolutely have to.
I've had bad injuries to my right knee, a torn ACL 15 years ago playing football which was successfully repaired, but once you've had a knee injury of that magnitude it's never quite the same. I also had a meniscus repair at the same time but that broke down around 5 years ago and I had a second operation to remove around 20% of the meniscus in the knee.
I find the more I do the stronger the knee gets, within sensible boundaries. When I rest for a few weeks it starts to grind and grumble, I honestly think the best thing you can do for bad knees is cycling and sensible lower body weight training. The issues I've had with injuries since I started running around 2013 haven't been directly knee related, but it's possible they are linked to my running form.
I've had achillies tendon issues, adductor tendon issues and briefly plantar fasciitis, but really it's the first two that I still struggle with. I've seen a couple of physios, a chiropractor and a running coach to try and get to the bottom of why I keep getting calf/achillies issues, but nobody has really made any inroads into it other than to strengthen my calves and glutes, which works to a point.
The problem I have is I'm quite competitive with myself, and not naturally gifted at running, so I was desperately trying to crack a 20 minute 5k and never got closer than 21 minutes before the training load caused an injury. I've learnt with time to just do as much as the body will allow me to, and listen to the aches and pains because they're there for a reason. You start to learn the difference between a tired muscle or an injured one.
I do 5k a couple of times a week now and that's enough for me, I've finally accepted I'm happy to just be able to run. It sounds like your injury is wear and tear so I would think strengthening and keeping your mileage sensible would be the way to go, and build up very slowly. After my most recent injury I limited myself to just parkrun every week for 8 weeks before adding a second run in, which was really tough when I was desperate to go out for a run midweek because I felt good, but touch wood everything is holding up at the moment.
Good luck. Also maybe give the squash another go, a little bit of twisting and turning could help strengthen the knees if you're able to take it steady.
Edited by resolve10 on Monday 18th December 11:46
Edited by resolve10 on Monday 18th December 11:46
similar sitaution to above!
i had ACL operation about 15 years ago, and as part of the same injury process discovered I have (what we think is hereditary) issues with cartilage not being as resistant as some others, so had a microfracture op on my left knee and then was told not to run or play football anymore, nothing too heavy on knees etc. which was disappointing as had not long come out of professional football.
Im 45 now so long since given up competitive football, but after a few years of doing nothing, I tried to rediscover some level of fitness and because I was uneven from the previous ops I ended up with massive back problems.
Ive never been a gym fan, but targeting knees and lower back with weighted exercises make a huge difference (I love kettlebells) and mix up the exercise so Im not loaded in one direction. Found a good physio who really helped.
I play decent standard 6aside once a week, sometimes have a run as well but will only hit 3 or 4 miles, but then will fit in maybe 2 kettlebell sessions (1 x legs, 1 x upper) and then have row session. I also coach 2 kids football teams.
I have some specialist insoles that I wear in boot and running trainers and that definitely helps (the left sole is raised to even my hips out) but most other exercise I do bare foot.
my advice would be that you need to manage it how you feel, but would definitely not give up on the running because there are plenty of ways to exercise pain free which gives you the mental boost
Im fitter and as agile as some of the lads Im coaching who are 18-21, just know the limits as to how much to push it. I will admit that have felt it all start to catch up with me this year!!
i had ACL operation about 15 years ago, and as part of the same injury process discovered I have (what we think is hereditary) issues with cartilage not being as resistant as some others, so had a microfracture op on my left knee and then was told not to run or play football anymore, nothing too heavy on knees etc. which was disappointing as had not long come out of professional football.
Im 45 now so long since given up competitive football, but after a few years of doing nothing, I tried to rediscover some level of fitness and because I was uneven from the previous ops I ended up with massive back problems.
Ive never been a gym fan, but targeting knees and lower back with weighted exercises make a huge difference (I love kettlebells) and mix up the exercise so Im not loaded in one direction. Found a good physio who really helped.
I play decent standard 6aside once a week, sometimes have a run as well but will only hit 3 or 4 miles, but then will fit in maybe 2 kettlebell sessions (1 x legs, 1 x upper) and then have row session. I also coach 2 kids football teams.
I have some specialist insoles that I wear in boot and running trainers and that definitely helps (the left sole is raised to even my hips out) but most other exercise I do bare foot.
my advice would be that you need to manage it how you feel, but would definitely not give up on the running because there are plenty of ways to exercise pain free which gives you the mental boost
Im fitter and as agile as some of the lads Im coaching who are 18-21, just know the limits as to how much to push it. I will admit that have felt it all start to catch up with me this year!!
The_Doc said:
I agree.
The runners and the professional sportspeople have the worst knees I inspect.
I have seen the inside of perhaps 10,000 knees.
Thanks for the reply, who has the best knees in that case? I'm just trying to work out the best path to take in regards to fitness as I want to remain in good shape.The runners and the professional sportspeople have the worst knees I inspect.
I have seen the inside of perhaps 10,000 knees.
Thanks
Nobody has the best knees 
If you do no exercise, you have an unhealthy heart and brain, and the chondral surface interestingly gets soft.
Overuse of the joints, any joint simply wears them out,
Any car driven from Manchester to London 365 days of the year will fail pretty quickly.
Drive the car to the 2 miles to the shops twice a month, fails for a different reason.
Moderated exercise is the answer,
- and running on tarmac is the worst.
If you do no exercise, you have an unhealthy heart and brain, and the chondral surface interestingly gets soft.
Overuse of the joints, any joint simply wears them out,
Any car driven from Manchester to London 365 days of the year will fail pretty quickly.
Drive the car to the 2 miles to the shops twice a month, fails for a different reason.
Moderated exercise is the answer,
- and running on tarmac is the worst.
The_Doc said:
Nobody has the best knees
If you do no exercise, you have an unhealthy heart and brain, and the chondral surface interestingly gets soft.
Overuse of the joints, any joint simply wears them out
I would be interested to know where the cut-off lies for the benefits of running (with good form, light on the feet, in non-squishy shoes, not heel striking and with good core strangth) and other exercise before it becomes detrimental.If you do no exercise, you have an unhealthy heart and brain, and the chondral surface interestingly gets soft.
Overuse of the joints, any joint simply wears them out
I am in my mid 40s, still run (and cycle almost daily) and have fewer aches and pains than I did in my 20s -possibly due to a broader range of activity, all-round body strength training and better running form.
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