Exercise - upping the ante, how to go about it?

[TameRacingDriver]

Hi all, currently enjoying a nice break abroad and when I get back I want to try and get in better shape than currently.

Bit of background. I'm 44m, 15st @ 5'10.

I do weights with dumbbells 4x a week, and when I can, walk for 30-45 minutes a day.

Diet is pretty good most of the time, I drink too much alcohol but will be addressing that asap. I believe most of my excess weight is probably due to that.

I'd rather not join a gym really, I get by ok with what I've got.

My cardio fitness is average at best, probably poor compared to someone who takes their exercise seriously.

I also lack flexibility (always have).

My resistance training comprises of this, each routine twice a week, 3x8 reps working up to 10 before increasing weight:

1 - Dumbbell squats, chest press, bent over dumbbell rows
2 - Romanian deadlifts, Calf raises, Seated shoulder press, Bicep curls, Tricep kickbacks

As I'm currently overweight, I'd guess the priority should be to lose fat. I have a reasonably good amount of muscle on my frame which I'm keen not to lose.

I'd definitely like to increase my cardio fitness but I've read that things like running can cause muscle loss when in conjunction with a calorie deficit and that walking or mild cardio is better?

Would also like to incorporate flexibility exercises into my routine. Be nice for tying shoe laces not to feel like exercise in itself.

My ultimate goal is to be lean and moderately muscular, maybe a football player physique (if there is such a thing), but mainly to lose fat, improve cardio fitness and flexibility.

Someone will ask about diet, I mainly have Huel black for breakfast (not really a breakfast person), things like omlettes with salad or a chicken and salad wrap or a jacket potato with tuna and salad for lunch. For dinner it's usually something like a homemade chicken curry, meat and veg, chicken fajitas, that sort of thing. On non drinking days I rarely exceed 2000 calories and usually hit 100g+ protein in a day. I'm trying to somewhat restrict carbs but I have no interest in going full keto.

I'd appreciate any suggestions or feedback on the above so I can head in the right direction. TIA

[Piginapoke]

You’re overthinking it.

Agree the goal you want to achieve (eg how much weight?), log calories, esp alcohol- and move more (anything that you enjoy). And be patient.

[MurderousCrow]

A few thoughts:

- You already seem aware that exercise is not particularly important in the overall fat loss picture. However non-exercise activity is huge, and this is where many people struggle. Their body is aware of the deficit, which influences / reduces how much non-exercise activity is done. Fight the lethargy, and track your steps to ensure you're not falling into this trap.

- Strength work seems good, you allude to progressive overload which is great.

- Muscle loss in a calorie deficit is a thing, however ensuring adequate protein, a sensible calorie deficit, and continuing strength work will offset this to negligible.

- Muscle loss attributable to cardio is almost certainly less of a problem than many people think. Probably negligible too. Low-impact or HIIT may be the most optimal for preserving muscle but if you feel like going for a run don't worry too much.

Something that can help with all of your goals is the humble kettlebell. It improves strength, cardio and mobility (a somewhat more useful concept which implies control at end-range, as opposed to flexibility which just means the ability to passively flex or extend a joint to end-range).

These days I do a very simple kettlebell complex known as the 'Deep Six': this is a fantastic routine using all the main lifts encountered in so-called hard style KB training. Each exercise is completed on one side, then swap to the other arm:

5x swing
5x snatch
5x clean & press
5x rack squat
1x Turkish get-up (more accurately a get-down as in this workout you start from the top position)

Repeat on the other side, together that's one set.

The goal is 5 sets with no rest, standard weight for guys being 20kg. At the moment I do three sets with a minute rest in between, using a 16 / 20 / 24kg bell depending on how I feel that day. Done properly this workout will make a body fitter and stronger with improved hip and shoulder health.

If you've not used KBs much, it's worth getting instruction on form. Here's a video showing pretty decent form with each of the 6 exercises:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3iNrHR47rQ

[oceanview]

Yes, your diet is the most important thing for weight loss- and your alcohol intake is definitely an issue for this!

I used to do just the same stuff at the gym but, along with better nutrition, i now do high-intensity resistance training ( so they call it)
It's basically a variety of exercises performed mainly at around 40 seconds on, 20 seconds off. i really enjoy them and can even follow just a 10 minute one and feel really pumped after.

I found that along with the nutrition side of things, i got much fitter, leaner and so better muscle definition as well.

I am the same height as you 5'10" but i am around 78kg ( 12st 4).

Plenty of these workouts online to follow along to. Alex Crockford has some decent stuff, especially beginners.

[J4CKO]

Get some decent trainers, go for a run, most other stuff is inferior for building fitness.

[Muzzer79]

Piginapoke said:

You’re overthinking it.

Agree the goal you want to achieve (eg how much weight?), log calories, esp alcohol- and move more (anything that you enjoy). And be patient.

I tend to agree. Upping the ante - just do more….

Regarding running losing muscle - if you’re an absolute beast and built like a brick outhouse then it can noticeably decrease muscle mass and light cardio is better.

But for someone looking to be lean and muscular, it’s fine and one of the best ways to burn calories vs time invested.

[Badda]

Ignore all the bro science about running making you lose muscle mass and put some trainers on and run. Once you’ve lost a stone or two, worry about the muscle if you need to.

[TameRacingDriver]

Thanks all, some really great info here, and plenty to ponder!

Re the kettle bells, I like the idea, I've actually got one but it's only 8kg but I may well look into getting some heavier ones, whenever I've done them, they've always been relatively enjoyable.

Sounds like I don't have to worry about the running and muscle loss. I've got a reasonable amount but I'm no beast! (Nor would I wish to be). Although in the past I've never enjoyed it and recent attempts I've found hard work. I'll probably retry the couch to 5k again as it seemed reasonably approachable. I suspect if I was fitter I wouldn't dislike it so much.

Good shout too on some of the high intensity stuff but I'd have to ease myself into it.

Thanks again all

[BoRED S2upid]

Swimming. Have you seen the bodies of professional swimmers.

[fourstardan]

Diet is key to me.

Drink more water than you usually do to.

Sleep is also a big factor, I suffer in summer from hot nights and can always see the difference.

You need to join a gym as well, humans like to compete and you will propel doing that in a gym.

I never get endorphins working out in the garage.

[E63eeeeee...]

BoRED S2upid said:

Swimming. Have you seen the bodies of professional swimmers.

But they will also be doing a stload of other forms of exercise. I'd have thought you'd be better off with some load-bearing cardio. That said, I have never found running to be helpful for weight loss. I managed to put on over half a stone training for a half marathon, it makes me hungry, makes me think it's OK to eat more, and makes me less mobile and active the rest of the time. YMMV, obviously.

For cardio that won't lead to muscle loss, I like rowing. Currently half way to my weight target having dropped a relatively painless half a stone by rowing 3 times a week, walking every day if I need to make up my steps target, and completely cut out sugar, fairly low carbs but not religious about it, and sticking to two meals a day.

[MC Bodge]

The foundation could be fairly intense circuit training at something like a boxing gym or boot camp style a couple of times a week.

Run and cycle regularly. Maybe walk in a hilly area with a heavy rucksack.

Resistance training can be good with bodyweight. I like kettlebells, clubs/maces and sandbags.

Eat well (we all know what that is) and not too much of it.

Form follows function. If you do the above and keep at it, you will be fit, capable and look healthy and lean.

I really wouldn't worry about "losing muscle" -Plenty of sportsmen run around a lot and are very strong. I'm a similar age to you, in fairly good shape and usefully strong through a combination of the above, albeit fairly consistently since my teens.

Edited by MC Bodge on Friday 29th September 22:27

[Chicken Chaser]

If you're "fat" and out of shape, don't be surprised if your muscle on your frame turns out to be less than you thought. If you're doing weights, you should be going to failure for those sets either with reps or weight.

Keep your protein levels up, walk more, burn more calories than you consume.

[Roger Irrelevant]

The first reply - that said you are overthinking it - is spot on. I was in a not dissimilar position not too long ago. When I got to over 14 stone in my undies vs a fighting weight of more like 13, I thought it was time to do something about it. Short version: some sort of weights circuit one day followed by a shortish run (4-6 miles) the next, reduce the booze and snacks, and lo and behold the weight steadily came off. Other forms of exercise are available - I'm perfectly happy running further every day for example - but It’s all about being able to sustain it in terms of not getting knackered, not getting bored, and not feeling it's too much bother (which if you have to get your arse to a gym/pool/whatever it can do).

Just do something proper everyday unless you really can't, cut down the booze and it'll happen. And ignore the stuff about 'running =losing muscle', load of bks.

[MurderousCrow]

TameRacingDriver said:

Thanks all, some really great info here, and plenty to ponder!

Re the kettle bells, I like the idea, I've actually got one but it's only 8kg but I may well look into getting some heavier ones, whenever I've done them, they've always been relatively enjoyable.

An 8kg KB isn't heavy enough for most of the exercises I mentioned above: given your training history and build you won't sufficiently activate the prime movers and all your movements will get weird. I'd suggest getting a 16kg bell to learn form, and you will probably graduate to a 20 fairly quickly, at least in terms of being able to do a few good quality repetitions. The cardio element will take a bit longer to build, and at first it is all about good movement and avoiding injury. So don't dive straight into a HIIT routine similar to the above until you're confidently moving the bell. Pay lots of attention to development of a good powerful swing, as this is foundational for other movements like the snatch and the clean.

All that said the 8kg bell will be fantastic for learning the Turkish get-up and rack squat, so don't chuck it. TGUs are amazing for core strength, mobility and shoulder health, and here a lighter KB is really helpful. Ditto rack squat, if current mobility is poor. The 8kg bell will provide a little extra stretch at the bottom and give you something to push against without being overly taxing. Don't try to progress onto a heavier bell with these movements until you're moving like the fella in the video above.

If you decide to take the plunge with KBs feel free to PM me, I can send a bit more info across on stuff like choosing a bell, hand care, form etc.

[jayymannon]

I really enjoy running but have always been quite injury-prone.
I found that the 10% rule actually worked quite well for me, i.e. only increasing total distance by no more than 10% each week.
It's quite frustrating when you start out because you feel like just going for it but it's helped me stay relatively injury-free.

[johnpsanderson]

Can’t add a lot but I guess, like us all, you have finite time for exercise so need to think about the most effective way to use the time. I’d suggest making sure you put time into things like stretching to avoid injury if you’re picking up running - feels like you’re wasting time you could be doing something harder/more energetic, but worth it to avoid two weeks off nursing a muscle tear, etc.

Also - if you don’t already, drink lots of water, should help all aspects.

And, if you’re trying to make more time to exercise, I think routine is key - e.g. always getting up early Tues and Thursday to run before breakfast or similar. Hard at first but you’ll soon get to the point where it feels off if you miss a week.

[TameRacingDriver]

Thanks all, some good insights here.

I possibly am overthinking it to be fair, but nonetheless there's been some good advice in the thread.

I realise I'll have to start easy and gradually ramp it up, but I'm used to that anyway from the weights and I'm patient so that won't be an issue.

Ultimately it seems the main takeaways are to cut the booze, gently start running (someone mentioned swimming but that's not my bag at all, maybe it would be different if I had a private pool!), do some stretching exercises and keep doing the weights.

Once I get fitter consider some HIIT and/or kettles.

And most importantly, be consistent and progress gradually.

[Chicken Chaser]

TameRacingDriver said:

Thanks all, some good insights here.

I possibly am overthinking it to be fair, but nonetheless there's been some good advice in the thread.

I realise I'll have to start easy and gradually ramp it up, but I'm used to that anyway from the weights and I'm patient so that won't be an issue.

Ultimately it seems the main takeaways are to cut the booze, gently start running (someone mentioned swimming but that's not my bag at all, maybe it would be different if I had a private pool!), do some stretching exercises and keep doing the weights.

Once I get fitter consider some HIIT and/or kettles.

And most importantly, be consistent and progress gradually.

Seriously OP, I know you say you don't want to join a gym as you get on ok, but if you've been doing what you've been doing at home and you're looking for ideas because it's not working, join a gym.

You're not limited with equipment, you're surrounded by others working hard which pushes you and you can at least see how it goes for you. My suggestion would be see if there's one local enough to your place of work or home which you can tie in with a commute in or home and if you can pay monthly without commitment to start, you'll at least get the chance to see whether it works for you. I started doing weights at home with dumbbells a year ago after previously doing predominantly cardio. At the start of this year I joined our local gym and it's really made a difference. It's got me into a regular rhythm and I can get in and out within an hour.

[ben5575]

This may seem obvious, but if you want to look like a footballer, then train (and eat) like a footballer. They tend to do a lot of running around as far as I'm aware.