Root canal not succesful?
Discussion
Had a root canal and filling a few months ago, the procedure went well and the tooth seems fine, no pain, however it does sometimes have some sensitivity, but it's quite hard to describe, mainly notice it when drinking hot drinks, the tooth can be sensitive, not painful, maybe uncomfortable at worst, is this normal? I thought the tooth would be completely dead and senseless after a root canal treatment.
Has anyone else experienced anything similar? Slightly concerned that there's still something wrong with it.
Has anyone else experienced anything similar? Slightly concerned that there's still something wrong with it.
I have had a few four of them. Once done it can't hurt no nerves .
However other teeth can transfer their discomfort to other teeth or parts of your mouth. I had a similar experience to you and it transpired it was another tooth on the way out tricking me. My dentist has a new Porsche, I told him he had to partly thank me for that .
However other teeth can transfer their discomfort to other teeth or parts of your mouth. I had a similar experience to you and it transpired it was another tooth on the way out tricking me. My dentist has a new Porsche, I told him he had to partly thank me for that .
Dead teeth can be sensitive to hot,but not cold.
The sensitivity can come from inflammation around the root tip,or generally around more of the root,which is increased by heat,hot things expand!
The source therefore is not the tooth but the tissues around the root tip,which are alive.
It could be a sign of failure or mild infection.?
However in my experience,the tooth may respond to mild bite adjustments ,the dentist should check that the tooth is in mild contact when you chomp up and down,but not in contact when you grind side to side and backwards and forwards.
If it sounds like I know what I'm talking about,it's because I've had nearly thirty years of experience.
Also, depending on which tooth it is, ( upper molars or upper 2nd premolar,rarely upper 1st premolar), it could be a sign of mild chronic sinusitis.
Generally, X-rays tend not to show change's in the first three months( your dentist will have x rayed the finished root canal treatment.)
If it's more like 6 months since completion and bite/ occlusion check and adjustments if needed haven't worked then a follow up x ray may show signs of failure or healing.
The sensitivity can come from inflammation around the root tip,or generally around more of the root,which is increased by heat,hot things expand!
The source therefore is not the tooth but the tissues around the root tip,which are alive.
It could be a sign of failure or mild infection.?
However in my experience,the tooth may respond to mild bite adjustments ,the dentist should check that the tooth is in mild contact when you chomp up and down,but not in contact when you grind side to side and backwards and forwards.
If it sounds like I know what I'm talking about,it's because I've had nearly thirty years of experience.
Also, depending on which tooth it is, ( upper molars or upper 2nd premolar,rarely upper 1st premolar), it could be a sign of mild chronic sinusitis.
Generally, X-rays tend not to show change's in the first three months( your dentist will have x rayed the finished root canal treatment.)
If it's more like 6 months since completion and bite/ occlusion check and adjustments if needed haven't worked then a follow up x ray may show signs of failure or healing.
Edited by astonman on Monday 21st August 11:18
astonman said:
Dead teeth can be sensitive to hot,but not cold.
The sensitivity can come from inflammation around the root tip,or generally around more of the root,which is increased by heat,hot things expand!
The source therefore is not the tooth but the tissues around the root tip,which are alive.
It could be a sign of failure or mild infection.?
However in my experience,the tooth may respond to mild bite adjustments ,the dentist should check that the tooth is in mild contact when you chomp up and down,but not in contact when you grind side to side and backwards and forwards.
If it sounds like I know what I'm talking about,it's because I've had nearly thirty years of experience.
Also, depending on which tooth it is, ( upper molars or upper 2nd premolar,rarely upper 1st premolar), it could be a sign of mild chronic sinusitis.
Generally, X-rays tend not to show change's in the first three months( your dentist will have x rayed the finished root canal treatment.)
If it's more like 6 months since completion and bite/ occlusion check and adjustments if needed haven't worked then a follow up x ray may show signs of failure or healing.
Thank you. That's very helpfulThe sensitivity can come from inflammation around the root tip,or generally around more of the root,which is increased by heat,hot things expand!
The source therefore is not the tooth but the tissues around the root tip,which are alive.
It could be a sign of failure or mild infection.?
However in my experience,the tooth may respond to mild bite adjustments ,the dentist should check that the tooth is in mild contact when you chomp up and down,but not in contact when you grind side to side and backwards and forwards.
If it sounds like I know what I'm talking about,it's because I've had nearly thirty years of experience.
Also, depending on which tooth it is, ( upper molars or upper 2nd premolar,rarely upper 1st premolar), it could be a sign of mild chronic sinusitis.
Generally, X-rays tend not to show change's in the first three months( your dentist will have x rayed the finished root canal treatment.)
If it's more like 6 months since completion and bite/ occlusion check and adjustments if needed haven't worked then a follow up x ray may show signs of failure or healing.
Edited by astonman on Monday 21st August 11:18
Astonman, if you are a dentist with 30yrs' experience, then your reply worries me. Are you suggesting that the momentary stimulus of heat expands the tissues/ligament around the root tip? And that chronic sinusitis is exacerbated by the same stimulus?
If the OP's symptoms are localised to the same area as the root canal treated tooth, then 99% of the time it will be this tooth/treatment that is causing the problem. Ruling out an adjacent tooth is quick and simple to do.
With my 20yrs' experience I would guess it's either a missed root canal which has left necrotic but semi-vital nerve tissue behind, or a hairline fracture in the tooth. For example most upper first molars have three root canals but a few weeks ago I found five of the buggers. A less experienced dentist (and myself a few years ago) may well have stopped after finding three and left two uncleaned.
A sectional CBCT scan would be beneficial but if the OP's dentist is not au fait with these then referral to an endodontist is prudent for further assessment.
If the OP's symptoms are localised to the same area as the root canal treated tooth, then 99% of the time it will be this tooth/treatment that is causing the problem. Ruling out an adjacent tooth is quick and simple to do.
With my 20yrs' experience I would guess it's either a missed root canal which has left necrotic but semi-vital nerve tissue behind, or a hairline fracture in the tooth. For example most upper first molars have three root canals but a few weeks ago I found five of the buggers. A less experienced dentist (and myself a few years ago) may well have stopped after finding three and left two uncleaned.
A sectional CBCT scan would be beneficial but if the OP's dentist is not au fait with these then referral to an endodontist is prudent for further assessment.
Using a sledge hammer to crack a nut Dentistry will cost far more than the vast majority of people will be prepared to pay to keep a tooth.
If all root canal therapy was carried out by Endodontic specialists,then there would be far more extractions from the word go!
Most endodontists do not understand occlusion.
Many an endodontic success ruined by a restoration with lateral or protrusive occlusal interferences.
And ,yes hot fluid will stimulate any already inflamed area.But not in a pinpoint way, the OP suggested his symptoms were somewhat vague and difficult to pinpoint?
It could be a missed canal obviously,but its much easier and cheaper to check the non Endodontic things first , especially if the Ops own dentist did the endo and knows whether it was straight forward or not.
Get Back to your ivory tower!
If all root canal therapy was carried out by Endodontic specialists,then there would be far more extractions from the word go!
Most endodontists do not understand occlusion.
Many an endodontic success ruined by a restoration with lateral or protrusive occlusal interferences.
And ,yes hot fluid will stimulate any already inflamed area.But not in a pinpoint way, the OP suggested his symptoms were somewhat vague and difficult to pinpoint?
It could be a missed canal obviously,but its much easier and cheaper to check the non Endodontic things first , especially if the Ops own dentist did the endo and knows whether it was straight forward or not.
Get Back to your ivory tower!
Some interesting replies, thought it was an appropriate time to reply myself as I've just finished a cup of coffee... and this time (as with most other times) felt absolutely nothing. It's just those odd occasions where you get the sensitivity of drinking something hot.
The dentist did mention something about potentially needing a filling in the future in the tooth next to it, so maybe it's that. Got a check up soon anyway so of course I'll mention it there, the reason for posting here was to hear other people's experiences and find out if it's considered normal to still have sensitivity around the area despite the tooth itself being dead.
The dentist did mention something about potentially needing a filling in the future in the tooth next to it, so maybe it's that. Got a check up soon anyway so of course I'll mention it there, the reason for posting here was to hear other people's experiences and find out if it's considered normal to still have sensitivity around the area despite the tooth itself being dead.
I have just had some extensive RC work done and there was swelling on one side of my face after the 3rd session. I went onto google, as you do, to find out the potential causes. The one thing that really struck me was the lack of consensus between practitioners about the potential causes. I went with my own instincts that it was due to having my mouth open of 1.5 hours, the anaesthetic, numerous X rays, and being prodded with bits of metal of all shapes and sizes. Plus the canal sterilisation procedure which I have to say is ropey at best.
The current literature suggests that RC often fails because the dentist hasn't found all of the infected canals, particularly in the upper molars. Plus the surrounding teeth and gum aren't too happy with the disruption so that also takes a while to settle down. Better than that losing a tooth? Not a cheap option though and if you have to get a procedure following a dental CT scan it will be even more expensive. I guess that an infection must be treated otherwise the long term consequences aren't good. Now I can chew on that side again after 7 weeks - so job done for the time being.
The current literature suggests that RC often fails because the dentist hasn't found all of the infected canals, particularly in the upper molars. Plus the surrounding teeth and gum aren't too happy with the disruption so that also takes a while to settle down. Better than that losing a tooth? Not a cheap option though and if you have to get a procedure following a dental CT scan it will be even more expensive. I guess that an infection must be treated otherwise the long term consequences aren't good. Now I can chew on that side again after 7 weeks - so job done for the time being.
Yahonza said:
I went with my own instincts that it was due to having my mouth open of 1.5 hours, the anaesthetic, numerous X rays, and being prodded with bits of metal of all shapes and sizes. Plus the canal sterilisation procedure which I have to say is ropey at best.
1.5hrs for a Root Canal! My old NHS dentist could do them in 30mins and I never had a problem with any of them. I miss him now he's retired. Dentistry lost a master of the craft especially as many (NHS) now appear to take the easy option and opt for extraction.Armitage shanks is correct, the skills of the " old", NHS dentist have been replaced with extractions.
This,is largely due to lack of skill, lack of adequate renumeration and lastly but Mainly ,the threat of Litigation if the work fails.
Endodontists have made RCT such a rigmarole and therefore so expensive ( £300 per hour for 3 hrs for a molar) , that most will opt for extraction, particularly as the then highly undermined tooth will likely need a crown afterwards at £500 or more.
There is of course Never any guarantee it will work,and even the " best ", Endodontists,talk about 5 year survival rates,like cancer etc
It's. Important to be aware that Nothing lasts for ever and all dental treatment will fail,given enough time.
This,is largely due to lack of skill, lack of adequate renumeration and lastly but Mainly ,the threat of Litigation if the work fails.
Endodontists have made RCT such a rigmarole and therefore so expensive ( £300 per hour for 3 hrs for a molar) , that most will opt for extraction, particularly as the then highly undermined tooth will likely need a crown afterwards at £500 or more.
There is of course Never any guarantee it will work,and even the " best ", Endodontists,talk about 5 year survival rates,like cancer etc
It's. Important to be aware that Nothing lasts for ever and all dental treatment will fail,given enough time.
Edited by astonman on Friday 25th August 17:09
Astonman, you have confirmed my suspicions. You are indeed, an idiot. "Endodontists have made RCT such a rigmarole"?? What on earth are you talking about? A specialist friend performed what on an xray looked like a straightforward RCT in my mouth, took him 2hrs20mins! I have three close friends who are all endodontists and the minimum amount of time they take is 1hr 15mins per case to allow for thorough chemical and mechanical cleaning.
Yes you or one of the old guard could have bumbled through it in 30mins, but then success/failure is in the hand of god. What are the published success rates for specialists vs general dentists? 98% vs 75% or thereabouts. That is down to the fact that RCT is a long and thorough process (or rigmarole) with a specialist/dentist who knows what they're doing. Do it properly or don't do it at all.
As for you mr armitage shanks, have you discovered which side of the brush you're supposed to be using yet? You have no idea about dentistry from your googling so please give it a rest. But I would love to see a recent picture of your turkey teeth! Please share.
Yes you or one of the old guard could have bumbled through it in 30mins, but then success/failure is in the hand of god. What are the published success rates for specialists vs general dentists? 98% vs 75% or thereabouts. That is down to the fact that RCT is a long and thorough process (or rigmarole) with a specialist/dentist who knows what they're doing. Do it properly or don't do it at all.
As for you mr armitage shanks, have you discovered which side of the brush you're supposed to be using yet? You have no idea about dentistry from your googling so please give it a rest. But I would love to see a recent picture of your turkey teeth! Please share.
Bringing this post back up again as I've since been for a follow up checkup and booked in for 2 further appointments for prep/temp crown and then having the crown fitted, however, I'm quite worried about this tooth now with the expense of a crown and I'm not convinced that the tooth is 100% fixed.
At the check up the dentist seemed happy with it, I told them that I've had this occasional sensitivity to hot drinks once or twice and he didn't seem bothered, strangely the sensitivity to hot drinks hasn't happened since, but now I experience an occasional "tooth ache" type feeling and there is a slight pain if you tap it with your finger or the back of the toothbrush - repeatedly tapping it with my finger is very very uncomfortable and if I bite my teeth together hard then you can feel pressure on the tooth.
Again the obvious answer is go back to the dentist - however it's quite difficult to fit appointments in around work at the moment, and a 2nd opinion on here is always welcome.
The X-ray did show up a small marking in the centre of the tooth which the dentist pointed out, but said that these little markings sometimes show up on x-rays and in the case that if it was something then there wasn't much he could do about it anyway.
I think there is still something wrong with the tooth.
At the check up the dentist seemed happy with it, I told them that I've had this occasional sensitivity to hot drinks once or twice and he didn't seem bothered, strangely the sensitivity to hot drinks hasn't happened since, but now I experience an occasional "tooth ache" type feeling and there is a slight pain if you tap it with your finger or the back of the toothbrush - repeatedly tapping it with my finger is very very uncomfortable and if I bite my teeth together hard then you can feel pressure on the tooth.
Again the obvious answer is go back to the dentist - however it's quite difficult to fit appointments in around work at the moment, and a 2nd opinion on here is always welcome.
The X-ray did show up a small marking in the centre of the tooth which the dentist pointed out, but said that these little markings sometimes show up on x-rays and in the case that if it was something then there wasn't much he could do about it anyway.
I think there is still something wrong with the tooth.
I had a root canal and a crown many years ago
It then became infected a couple of weeks later and it had to be completely redone
Fortunately I've not had any issues since ..... especially fortunate when you consider they charged me twice !
Oh and the dentist got done with overcharging and doing unnecessary work a few years later
It then became infected a couple of weeks later and it had to be completely redone
Fortunately I've not had any issues since ..... especially fortunate when you consider they charged me twice !
Oh and the dentist got done with overcharging and doing unnecessary work a few years later
s91 said:
Bringing this post back up again as I've since been for a follow up checkup and booked in for 2 further appointments for prep/temp crown and then having the crown fitted, however, I'm quite worried about this tooth now with the expense of a crown and I'm not convinced that the tooth is 100% fixed.
At the check up the dentist seemed happy with it, I told them that I've had this occasional sensitivity to hot drinks once or twice and he didn't seem bothered, strangely the sensitivity to hot drinks hasn't happened since, but now I experience an occasional "tooth ache" type feeling and there is a slight pain if you tap it with your finger or the back of the toothbrush - repeatedly tapping it with my finger is very very uncomfortable and if I bite my teeth together hard then you can feel pressure on the tooth.
Again the obvious answer is go back to the dentist - however it's quite difficult to fit appointments in around work at the moment, and a 2nd opinion on here is always welcome.
The X-ray did show up a small marking in the centre of the tooth which the dentist pointed out, but said that these little markings sometimes show up on x-rays and in the case that if it was something then there wasn't much he could do about it anyway.
I think there is still something wrong with the tooth.
Exactly the same for me. I’ve had a couple of teeth treated and whilst it’s better it’s not perfect I still get pain with hot drinks. I think the problem is that X-rays don’t show up everything. We’ve agreed to wait and see what develops I don’t want any more drilling to find out. At the check up the dentist seemed happy with it, I told them that I've had this occasional sensitivity to hot drinks once or twice and he didn't seem bothered, strangely the sensitivity to hot drinks hasn't happened since, but now I experience an occasional "tooth ache" type feeling and there is a slight pain if you tap it with your finger or the back of the toothbrush - repeatedly tapping it with my finger is very very uncomfortable and if I bite my teeth together hard then you can feel pressure on the tooth.
Again the obvious answer is go back to the dentist - however it's quite difficult to fit appointments in around work at the moment, and a 2nd opinion on here is always welcome.
The X-ray did show up a small marking in the centre of the tooth which the dentist pointed out, but said that these little markings sometimes show up on x-rays and in the case that if it was something then there wasn't much he could do about it anyway.
I think there is still something wrong with the tooth.
I’ve had a couple of dentists work on the teeth, the original one thought that it maybe the proximity of the nerve to the tooth. The second one has all the specialist gear to work on the tooth and specialises in root canals. He seems competent and isn’t trying to do unnecessary work. The human body isn’t predictable sometimes.
I had a root canal done about twenty years ago that failed after two years of just about bearable pain, followed by another attempt at a root canal, which led to three years of bearable pain, then had the tooth crowned, which also resulted in another five years of just about bearable pain, followed by a failed extraction which left a dead quarter of root stuck in my gum.
This was fairly pain free for a bit, but then became painful during the Covid days, and as my denstist was not taking any appointments I managed to prise what was left out myself.
My advice, just get the f
ker pulled.
This was fairly pain free for a bit, but then became painful during the Covid days, and as my denstist was not taking any appointments I managed to prise what was left out myself.
My advice, just get the f
ker pulled.cringle said:
Astonman, you have confirmed my suspicions. You are indeed, an idiot. "Endodontists have made RCT such a rigmarole"?? What on earth are you talking about? A specialist friend performed what on an xray looked like a straightforward RCT in my mouth, took him 2hrs20mins! I have three close friends who are all endodontists and the minimum amount of time they take is 1hr 15mins per case to allow for thorough chemical and mechanical cleaning.
Yes you or one of the old guard could have bumbled through it in 30mins, but then success/failure is in the hand of god. What are the published success rates for specialists vs general dentists? 98% vs 75% or thereabouts. That is down to the fact that RCT is a long and thorough process (or rigmarole) with a specialist/dentist who knows what they're doing. Do it properly or don't do it at all.
As for you mr armitage shanks, have you discovered which side of the brush you're supposed to be using yet? You have no idea about dentistry from your googling so please give it a rest. But I would love to see a recent picture of your turkey teeth! Please share.
Nice to know when you are sat in the chair and faced with uncertainty, you'll get some calming words of comfort from a really personable professional. Worth every penny!Yes you or one of the old guard could have bumbled through it in 30mins, but then success/failure is in the hand of god. What are the published success rates for specialists vs general dentists? 98% vs 75% or thereabouts. That is down to the fact that RCT is a long and thorough process (or rigmarole) with a specialist/dentist who knows what they're doing. Do it properly or don't do it at all.
As for you mr armitage shanks, have you discovered which side of the brush you're supposed to be using yet? You have no idea about dentistry from your googling so please give it a rest. But I would love to see a recent picture of your turkey teeth! Please share.
cringle said:
As for you mr armitage shanks, have you discovered which side of the brush you're supposed to be using yet? You have no idea about dentistry from your googling so please give it a rest. But I would love to see a recent picture of your turkey teeth! Please share.
I'm still here and my Turkey teeth are fine, thank you for asking. The picture on my thread of the work done is no different to what they are now and I have a private appointment with my UK hygenist this week. May as well enter the private sector of UK dentistry to keep them tip top, a cross I'll have to bear given my NHS dentist retired (Over the years he did several RCT on me in less than 1hr and all successful)It surprises me you have any patients if you condesending attitude is imparted on the person sat in your chair. You can't accept that UK cost of living prices, materials, staff, taxes and general overheads play such a big part of UK cosmetic dentistry costs that are not borne to such a great extent making another country's dental services cheaper. Then you have the 'finger in the air' private adjustment that I was offered by a Uk dentist. No breakdown in costs, "It will be £18k, but if you pay upfront I'll do it for £14k".
I did my research, spoke with satsfied patients, checked credentials and made my decision. I've no regrets.
s91 said:
Bringing this post back up again as I've since been for a follow up checkup and booked in for 2 further appointments for prep/temp crown and then having the crown fitted, however, I'm quite worried about this tooth now with the expense of a crown and I'm not convinced that the tooth is 100% fixed.
At the check up the dentist seemed happy with it, I told them that I've had this occasional sensitivity to hot drinks once or twice and he didn't seem bothered, strangely the sensitivity to hot drinks hasn't happened since, but now I experience an occasional "tooth ache" type feeling and there is a slight pain if you tap it with your finger or the back of the toothbrush - repeatedly tapping it with my finger is very very uncomfortable and if I bite my teeth together hard then you can feel pressure on the tooth.
Again the obvious answer is go back to the dentist - however it's quite difficult to fit appointments in around work at the moment, and a 2nd opinion on here is always welcome.
The X-ray did show up a small marking in the centre of the tooth which the dentist pointed out, but said that these little markings sometimes show up on x-rays and in the case that if it was something then there wasn't much he could do about it anyway.
I think there is still something wrong with the tooth.
I've had 3 or 4 root canal surgeries over the years, a couple of had return visits caused by an infection. The most recent incident with a tooth infection was the most unpleasant ... a night in A&E on oral mophine and subsequent 3 visits to drill out the canals was absolute agony ... the previous surgeries were nothing by comparison. At the check up the dentist seemed happy with it, I told them that I've had this occasional sensitivity to hot drinks once or twice and he didn't seem bothered, strangely the sensitivity to hot drinks hasn't happened since, but now I experience an occasional "tooth ache" type feeling and there is a slight pain if you tap it with your finger or the back of the toothbrush - repeatedly tapping it with my finger is very very uncomfortable and if I bite my teeth together hard then you can feel pressure on the tooth.
Again the obvious answer is go back to the dentist - however it's quite difficult to fit appointments in around work at the moment, and a 2nd opinion on here is always welcome.
The X-ray did show up a small marking in the centre of the tooth which the dentist pointed out, but said that these little markings sometimes show up on x-rays and in the case that if it was something then there wasn't much he could do about it anyway.
I think there is still something wrong with the tooth.
But yes, I still have some sensitivity around the area, I suspect caused but other teeth nerves. This has subsided since I had the proceedures 4/5 months ago ... as you could feel, it felt sensitive under biting pressure .... but now fine. I still have to return to have a crown fitted next to the offending tooth.
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