Give it all up, or party until the music stops?
Discussion
A friend from the gym was diagnosed with esophageal cancer yesterday. He is waiting for a CT scan to see if it is metastatic, if it his he has a very short future. He is sixty.
I only know him because I used to do indoor rowing with him. I offered to train with him because his training partner died of a heart attack (on the rowing machine) age sixty. He had formerly competed internationally.
The first chap's cancer may, it seems, be related to drinking very hot tea. Apparently it's in a place where a lot of Chinese get it, due to hot tea consumption. He drinks a bit, but not masses and eats mainly a Mediterranean diet.
About three years ago he had put on some timber (not masses) and went on a regime to lose it again. Having lost it he had a stroke, but recovered.
This raises in my mind the question, "is it ever too late to give up everything that is bad for you, in the hope of living longer? Or should we all just party on?"
I only know him because I used to do indoor rowing with him. I offered to train with him because his training partner died of a heart attack (on the rowing machine) age sixty. He had formerly competed internationally.
The first chap's cancer may, it seems, be related to drinking very hot tea. Apparently it's in a place where a lot of Chinese get it, due to hot tea consumption. He drinks a bit, but not masses and eats mainly a Mediterranean diet.
About three years ago he had put on some timber (not masses) and went on a regime to lose it again. Having lost it he had a stroke, but recovered.
This raises in my mind the question, "is it ever too late to give up everything that is bad for you, in the hope of living longer? Or should we all just party on?"
popeyewhite said:
I think you know the answer to this.
.
Well, actually, no. If I did, I wouldn't be musing about it..
I have a feeling that a lot of "soft damage" may be caused when we are young, only to emerge as disease later in life. When it does, it's a lottery as to whether it takes us down.
I can cite as an example sun damage. I used to windsurf back in the 90s and certain parts of me caught the sun more than others. It's in these areas that I now have brown "liver spots" and poor skin.
One of my uncles died (fifties / early sixties) of a type of lung cancer consistent with inhaling asbestos. Which is what he did when he was in the RAF in his twenties.
So, I am probably of the view that there is no point being overly abstemious north of fifty in the hope that the sins of youth are reversed.
I'm in my first year north of 50 and have found myself thinking about this sort of thing myself. Certainly, some damage was done in my youth, throughout the 90s in particular, I enjoyed all the vices on offer.
I've been far healthier over the last 15 years or so. I don't smoke or partake in any illicit chemicals these days. Exercise regularly and, whilst my diet and alcohol intake aren't perfect, I'm comfortable that I'm neither eating nor drinking myself into an early grave.
Will the sins of my youth come back to bite me somewhere unexpected? Maybe, maybe not. There isn't much I can do about it now. I'll have to die of something eventually.
I have a friend who is about my age and, whose history in regards smoking and drinking approximately mirrors my own. He is currently in a hospice with a terminal brain tumour, which is (as far as I know) entirely unrelated to youthful antics.
It's all a lottery. You could abstain from birth and die suddenly to an undiagnosed heart condition at 14 (this happened to my neighbour when I was young) or, you could be more like Keith Richards.
I've been far healthier over the last 15 years or so. I don't smoke or partake in any illicit chemicals these days. Exercise regularly and, whilst my diet and alcohol intake aren't perfect, I'm comfortable that I'm neither eating nor drinking myself into an early grave.
Will the sins of my youth come back to bite me somewhere unexpected? Maybe, maybe not. There isn't much I can do about it now. I'll have to die of something eventually.
I have a friend who is about my age and, whose history in regards smoking and drinking approximately mirrors my own. He is currently in a hospice with a terminal brain tumour, which is (as far as I know) entirely unrelated to youthful antics.
It's all a lottery. You could abstain from birth and die suddenly to an undiagnosed heart condition at 14 (this happened to my neighbour when I was young) or, you could be more like Keith Richards.
I guess you asked this as a binary question to stimulate an interesting discussion, but it really doesn't need to be binary, does it?
Death tends to be unpleasant whenever it happens and in whatever circumstances, either for the person dying or for those that love them, but it's going to happen to all of us, it's inevitable (duh).
A fixation on trying to prolong life can seriously impact quality of life. This becomes particularly meaningful when someone's diagnosed with a terminal condition and they and their family have a decision to make about palliative care vs potentially unpleasant treatments which may only give marginal additional time - in theory it's a straightforward length of life vs quality of life decision, in practice of course it's far from straightforward.
In the situation you describe, you've got the same variables at pay, just a significantly higher degree of uncertainty - you know you've got a terminal condition (called human life), but you've no idea what's going to bring it to a close or when. Consciously making the minimisation of all risk a top priority would, I imagine, make the majority of people quite miserable, take away sources of pleasure quite apart from accentuating a level of general fearfulness which can increase with age in any event.
On the other hand maintaining old habits, which you believe are damaging to your health, just because you've always done them, even when they bring you limited marginal benefit in terms of enjoyment, relaxation or whatever seems to be wilfully self-destructive.
So it's not binary, in my view, it's a very personal set of decisions about continuing to do the things you enjoy (or finding new things to do that you enjoy) but if the risks associated with them worry you, modifying how you do them so you can sleep at night.
A couple of slightly s
t examples - I love the sun but these days wouldn't spend any significant time exposed to it without factor 30 liberally and frequently applied. I love motorcycling and live music but have recently developed tinnitus, ear plugs now are now non-negotiable for me on the bike and are always on me, just in case, at a gig. I love hill walking and running but have chronic knee pain, now I always wear a knee support and am more disciplined about stretching and warming up properly running and use walking poles in the hills. I'm not saying ringing ears or sore knees are going to kill me but you get the picture.
Death tends to be unpleasant whenever it happens and in whatever circumstances, either for the person dying or for those that love them, but it's going to happen to all of us, it's inevitable (duh).
A fixation on trying to prolong life can seriously impact quality of life. This becomes particularly meaningful when someone's diagnosed with a terminal condition and they and their family have a decision to make about palliative care vs potentially unpleasant treatments which may only give marginal additional time - in theory it's a straightforward length of life vs quality of life decision, in practice of course it's far from straightforward.
In the situation you describe, you've got the same variables at pay, just a significantly higher degree of uncertainty - you know you've got a terminal condition (called human life), but you've no idea what's going to bring it to a close or when. Consciously making the minimisation of all risk a top priority would, I imagine, make the majority of people quite miserable, take away sources of pleasure quite apart from accentuating a level of general fearfulness which can increase with age in any event.
On the other hand maintaining old habits, which you believe are damaging to your health, just because you've always done them, even when they bring you limited marginal benefit in terms of enjoyment, relaxation or whatever seems to be wilfully self-destructive.
So it's not binary, in my view, it's a very personal set of decisions about continuing to do the things you enjoy (or finding new things to do that you enjoy) but if the risks associated with them worry you, modifying how you do them so you can sleep at night.
A couple of slightly s
t examples - I love the sun but these days wouldn't spend any significant time exposed to it without factor 30 liberally and frequently applied. I love motorcycling and live music but have recently developed tinnitus, ear plugs now are now non-negotiable for me on the bike and are always on me, just in case, at a gig. I love hill walking and running but have chronic knee pain, now I always wear a knee support and am more disciplined about stretching and warming up properly running and use walking poles in the hills. I'm not saying ringing ears or sore knees are going to kill me but you get the picture. said:
My dad died earlier this year. 63, gym 4 times a week, always been thin, fit and healthy. (Think lean, abs, all through his youth until his mid 30s)
Stomach pains in October, aggressive but ultimately undiagnosed cancer, no treatment and died a few days after being given 6 months to live in March.
He didn't go without and had a good balance - drank when he wanted, ate a balance of what he wanted, rode motorbikes, had fast cars and the such), but don't be under the illusion that a healthy life will lead to a prolonged one and avoid you have an awful end of life experience.
During my grief i will openly admit its caused a lot of anger for me, especially when I see obese people in their 50/60/70s waddling around smoking/vaping.
Life's a balance.
My opinion is to stay fit and healthy to give you the best chance of surviving something survivable but don't let it consume your life.
Louis Balfour said:
Well, actually, no. If I did, I wouldn't be musing about it.
I have a feeling that a lot of "soft damage" may be caused when we are young, only to emerge as disease later in life. When it does, it's a lottery as to whether it takes us down.
I can cite as an example sun damage. I used to windsurf back in the 90s and certain parts of me caught the sun more than others. It's in these areas that I now have brown "liver spots" and poor skin.
One of my uncles died (fifties / early sixties) of a type of lung cancer consistent with inhaling asbestos. Which is what he did when he was in the RAF in his twenties.
So, I am probably of the view that there is no point being overly abstemious north of fifty in the hope that the sins of youth are reversed.
If you continue with unhealthy habits the chance of you contracting something nasty continues to rise. AFAIA the liver repairs itself quite well (if you're a drinker) and the chances of disease from smoking drop the earlier you give up. You could, however, be your own guinea pig.I have a feeling that a lot of "soft damage" may be caused when we are young, only to emerge as disease later in life. When it does, it's a lottery as to whether it takes us down.
I can cite as an example sun damage. I used to windsurf back in the 90s and certain parts of me caught the sun more than others. It's in these areas that I now have brown "liver spots" and poor skin.
One of my uncles died (fifties / early sixties) of a type of lung cancer consistent with inhaling asbestos. Which is what he did when he was in the RAF in his twenties.
So, I am probably of the view that there is no point being overly abstemious north of fifty in the hope that the sins of youth are reversed.
popeyewhite said:
If you continue with unhealthy habits the chance of you contracting something nasty continues to rise. AFAIA the liver repairs itself quite well (if you're a drinker) and the chances of disease from smoking drop the earlier you give up. You could, however, be your own guinea pig.
What do Guinea pigs eat and are they allowed alcohol?Just hope you're blessed with long telomeres! It's just down to genes and luck, no point stressing on the uncontrollables, my mum who's 90 and lived and worked outside long before sun protection was a thing in Malta and passive smoked for about 40yrs is fit as a flea, still sea swims everyday.
There was an early longevity study done in the 50s or 60s comparing the life expectancy of London bus drivers and conductors, they found on average conductors lived between 5 and 7yrs longer due to their greater physical output, so if you want to live to a decent age keep moving.
There was an early longevity study done in the 50s or 60s comparing the life expectancy of London bus drivers and conductors, they found on average conductors lived between 5 and 7yrs longer due to their greater physical output, so if you want to live to a decent age keep moving.
Sorry for the late reply, just seen this thread out of chance, very interesting topic this OP which is one that resonates with me.
It's fair to say that when I was younger I burned the candle from both ends on a regular basis. Drank far too much, smoked most things that could be smoked, sometimes on objects that were clearly not designed to be smoked from, indulged in the usual plethora of illegal substances, and generally lived like I was going to die young anyway.
Yet here I am at 44, still here. Still burning the candle from both ends, but I gotta be honest, it's catching up with me now. I was never supposed to live this long (yes I'm aware how mental that sounds).
I now know I need to reign it in a bit, but I still fully intend to enjoy myself of a weekend etc. In fact I'm reigning it in so that I can continue to enjoy myself on a weekend. I'm not doing it to live longer, just so I can have more days of feeling good than crap, the balance is now out of whack.
My dad did a stint in social welfare and said to me I'd be surprised how many fitness / health fanatics died young. It really is a lottery.
In a word, there's no point in trying to undo what I did when younger, but I think there is a point in leading a healthier lifestyle so I can feel better in the here and now.
It's fair to say that when I was younger I burned the candle from both ends on a regular basis. Drank far too much, smoked most things that could be smoked, sometimes on objects that were clearly not designed to be smoked from, indulged in the usual plethora of illegal substances, and generally lived like I was going to die young anyway.
Yet here I am at 44, still here. Still burning the candle from both ends, but I gotta be honest, it's catching up with me now. I was never supposed to live this long (yes I'm aware how mental that sounds).
I now know I need to reign it in a bit, but I still fully intend to enjoy myself of a weekend etc. In fact I'm reigning it in so that I can continue to enjoy myself on a weekend. I'm not doing it to live longer, just so I can have more days of feeling good than crap, the balance is now out of whack.
My dad did a stint in social welfare and said to me I'd be surprised how many fitness / health fanatics died young. It really is a lottery.
In a word, there's no point in trying to undo what I did when younger, but I think there is a point in leading a healthier lifestyle so I can feel better in the here and now.
TameRacingDriver said:
My dad did a stint in social welfare and said to me I'd be surprised how many fitness / health fanatics died young. It really is a lottery.
.
I personally have known a few "fitness fanatics" who've died young, in addition to the chap I mentioned in my OP. Fit isn't always the same as healthy!.
I had a coffee earlier with an erstwhile friend. He is forty-nine and cannot walk up and down stairs properly, because his knees are clapped out. This is a result of being a 6ft 5in body builder, who used to use gear and did lots of squats. This was before I knew him, but I bet he looked fit as a butcher's dog at twenty-five.
A physio I've just seen is mid-fifties and looks like Bruce Lee, super lean. He has chronically high blood pressure.
I think prayer may be the answer.
Louis Balfour said:
I personally have known a few "fitness fanatics" who've died young, in addition to the chap I mentioned in my OP. Fit isn't always the same as healthy!
I had a coffee earlier with an erstwhile friend. He is forty-nine and cannot walk up and down stairs properly, because his knees are clapped out. This is a result of being a 6ft 5in body builder, who used to use gear and did lots of squats. This was before I knew him, but I bet he looked fit as a butcher's dog at twenty-five.
A physio I've just seen is mid-fifties and looks like Bruce Lee, super lean. He has chronically high blood pressure.
I think prayer may be the answer.
I'm not religious so I am sceptical it would work for me I had a coffee earlier with an erstwhile friend. He is forty-nine and cannot walk up and down stairs properly, because his knees are clapped out. This is a result of being a 6ft 5in body builder, who used to use gear and did lots of squats. This was before I knew him, but I bet he looked fit as a butcher's dog at twenty-five.
A physio I've just seen is mid-fifties and looks like Bruce Lee, super lean. He has chronically high blood pressure.
I think prayer may be the answer.
You're right though. I've got critically high blood pressure, discovered late last year. Runs in the family. Doesn't matter how fit I am, I'll always have high BP. Probably lucky it was caught when it was. Started having headaches. Typical bloke, wouldn't go to the doctors until Mrs TRD forced me to - sent me straight to hospital, told I was lucky to be alive. Guess I should treat every day as a bonus.
Even exercise can be overdone. Lots of people with knackered joints, arthritis and other pains, from doing too much exercise. Mrs TRD's brother has ended up in hospital with chest pains from over exercising. Sadly, doesn't seem to have learned his lesson. Did a 200 mile bike ride in 25C heat the other day.
Ultimately, I think when your time is up, it's up, and you can only really influence it by a few years here or there via lifestyle choices. Trying to live longer is a folly. Although I've always had a fatalistic attitude to life, which has resulted in a rather short term view to life and planning, which is another regret, but at least, touch wood, I'm still here to regret it
Louis Balfour said:
I personally have known a few "fitness fanatics" who've died young, in addition to the chap I mentioned in my OP. Fit isn't always the same as healthy!
I had a coffee earlier with an erstwhile friend. He is forty-nine and cannot walk up and down stairs properly, because his knees are clapped out. This is a result of being a 6ft 5in body builder, who used to use gear and did lots of squats. This was before I knew him, but I bet he looked fit as a butcher's dog at twenty-five.
A physio I've just seen is mid-fifties and looks like Bruce Lee, super lean. He has chronically high blood pressure.
I think prayer may be the answer.
Being 'super-fit' puts an enormous stress on the body in different ways depending upon the sport practised to get in that condition. It's why ultra-endurance athletes can look older at a relatively young age, for example. I had a coffee earlier with an erstwhile friend. He is forty-nine and cannot walk up and down stairs properly, because his knees are clapped out. This is a result of being a 6ft 5in body builder, who used to use gear and did lots of squats. This was before I knew him, but I bet he looked fit as a butcher's dog at twenty-five.
A physio I've just seen is mid-fifties and looks like Bruce Lee, super lean. He has chronically high blood pressure.
I think prayer may be the answer.
Different folks physiology will accept varying degrees of physical stress so it's a personal thing, finding our 'ideal' degree of fitness that will help with our longevity rather than shorten it. Being fit absolutely helps us health-wise but over-training leads to harm.
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