Sleep Apnoea - anyone else with experience?

[Kermit power]

I've now had a couple of nights with an automatic pressure CPAP on the NHS. According to the machine data, I've dropped from 28 apnotic episodes an hour to 1.8, am keeping the mask on for 7+ hours and have a good seal on the mask. Oddly the sleep tracker on my watch (which is usually rather good) is also telling me that I'm suddenly getting no deep sleep at all, but I suspect that's just the sensors being thrown off by the increased air pressure.

My wife is definitely benefiting as I've gone from pneumatic jackhammer snoring to none at all, but I'm not really feeling much benefit at all myself!

Was I being unrealistically over optimistic in expecting to wake up feeling like superman?

Annoyingly, with the benefit of hindsight I'm wondering if I should've waited to try the sleep thing before changing ADD meds, as the new ones have been absolutely game-changing in terms of alertness, concentration, focus and everything else I could ask for, so probably overshadowing the CPAP machine somewhat, but even so I would've expected to feel some positive effect?

How have others found it? Were the benefits instant? Did they build up over time? Anyone with no benefits?

[rodericb]

There was a recent thread on it (a month or so ago) but it has gone AWOL. I am on my fifth week with it. First four weeks I has a Resmed Autoset 10. I tried nasal pillow (fielt strange) and was using a Fisher and Paykel full face mask for a couple of weeks but that wasn't overly comfortable. I then got a Resmed full face mask, which butts up against the nostrils, and once I got the right sizing it felt better, to the extent that I got to two stints of 2.5 to 3 hours per night. Machine went back last Friday after trial concluded and I've got a Fisher & Paykel SleepStyle for a week. Friday and Saturday just gone I slept right through.

I have the Oscar software to see what's going on with the machine. I also have a Wellue O2 ring which I track heart rate and SP02 with. It certainly showed that my SP02 was normal when the airways were being kept open by the machine and it plummeted when I was getting AHI's when not using the machine. I haven't run the O2 ring with the F&P so far and will do so tonight. Looking at the data in Oscar I can see I'm having more AHI's with the F&P but it's easier to sleep with. I'm still under 5 per hour with the F&P so it's doing what it should. I have a fitbit something-or-other watch and it was saying that I was getting great sleep and SP02 average of 98% or something. Which was a bit misleading due to various things. I'm not using that and will use the CPAP machine and Oscar software plus the SP02 ring to see what's going on.

As for changes, I haven't really noticed anything so far. I'm not leaping out of bed of a morning and for the last couple of mornings I've slept an hour longer than I usually would. Late last year I found that I was occasionally getting a bit sleepy during workdays, to the extent that I'd have to "rest my eyes" for a couple of minutes. I work from home and it's quite a relaxing environment ha ha. I don't think it'd be happening in the office. Since starting CPAP I haven't had that but I can't say if that's due to the CPAP or that it's school holidays and everyone is at home during the day. My blood pressure is still on the high side but I've got another condition which is "helping" with that (aortic valve trouble), to which I'm being given stronger and stronger BP medication. I believe there's a link between OSA and high blood pressure so using the CPAP should be doing something beneficial there. I'm toying with the idea of getting a breathing training device and have some exercises written up which will strengthen my airways.

Lack of quality sleep is one of those things which impacts everyone in many and varied ways and has various causes, but obstructive sleep apnoea seems to be one of the major contributors. I think that I wasn't much suffering the effects in alertness as I've got plenty of things going on during the day to keep me alert, but I have a feeling I am slightly underdone in the concentration department. I feel it was more affecting me physically with increasing blood pressure and my body being in survival mode and gaining weight incredibly easily. Until I had a sleep study done I didn't know how bad I had OSA and it has filled some mysterious gaps knowing this. I will keep using the machine and do whatever exercises to help alleviate the OSA as I'd prefer to not use the machine..... I don't drink or smoke so can't blame those. Some people have said it has been light night and day for them. I suppose those who have the amazing experience will be more likely to say as such and everyone else is deriving far more subtle or immediately unnoticeable benefits.....

If I were you I'd certainly keep on using the CPAP machine. Get the Oscar software and, if you like, an O2 sensor. You might be able to adjust your ADD medication more confidently if you have the data to support it.

Edited by rodericb on Sunday 29th January 10:01

[m3jappa]

I will be following this, i recently read about sleep apnoea and did wonder if i have it.

I do snore, although this has been a bit better recently apparently, apparently i do sometimes gasp for breath.

And the one that made me read about it which is the one that really matters is i feel absolutely fked all the time.

I am not aware that im waking up loads in the night though.

I wake up feeling fuzzy, its almost like a mild hangover. If i am not at work then i will by default fall asleep at home, usually around 11am-1pm, proper tired sleep as well where i just cant keep my eyes open. Even at work i find myself having to shut my eyes when im in the van.

Has been for a good few years now, i thought it was carbs and still do think they dont help but even if i eat a salad i still feel fked.

[Kermit power]

rodericb said:

Lots of helpful stuff

Thanks for the really detailed reply!

I've got a Resmed Auto which comes with its own software that is scoring me at 98-100/100 every night.

Despite being overweight, my blood pressure, resting heart rate and basically every other stat is spot in where it should be, so I'm wondering if that's why I'm not feeling the gains of some. I'll persevere with it though!

[Kermit power]

m3jappa said:

I will be following this, i recently read about sleep apnoea and did wonder if i have it.

I do snore, although this has been a bit better recently apparently, apparently i do sometimes gasp for breath.

And the one that made me read about it which is the one that really matters is i feel absolutely fked all the time.

I am not aware that im waking up loads in the night though.

I wake up feeling fuzzy, its almost like a mild hangover. If i am not at work then i will by default fall asleep at home, usually around 11am-1pm, proper tired sleep as well where i just cant keep my eyes open. Even at work i find myself having to shut my eyes when im in the van.

Has been for a good few years now, i thought it was carbs and still do think they dont help but even if i eat a salad i still feel fked.

That does sound like it! Supposedly something like 85% of cases are undiagnosed as it comes on gradually and people just think they're getting older and less fit.

Do you have access to a smartwatch that measures heart rate and O2 levels? Before I started using the CPAP, my watch was showing my heart rate dropping as low as 40bpm and my O2 levels dropping to 72%. Since starting on the CPAP, my HR isn't dropping past 50, and my O2 not below 90%.

Now, just I did, you might think a lower resting HR is always better, but I now know that when it's happening like this, it's because an apnotic event closing my airways is cutting off the oxygen, which in turn causes my heart rate to temporarily drop until I jolt my airways open again and the heart rate temporarily shoots back up again in compensation.

Obviously a smart watch isn't a medical grade device, but I was amazed at how closely it mirrored the actual medical grade device that the hospital sent out for me to do a home sleep assessment. I certainly think it would give you enough of an indication to be able to share with a GP to request a sleep apnoea assessment referral.

[rodericb]

m3jappa said:

I will be following this, i recently read about sleep apnoea and did wonder if i have it.

I do snore, although this has been a bit better recently apparently, apparently i do sometimes gasp for breath.

And the one that made me read about it which is the one that really matters is i feel absolutely fked all the time.

I am not aware that im waking up loads in the night though.

I wake up feeling fuzzy, its almost like a mild hangover. If i am not at work then i will by default fall asleep at home, usually around 11am-1pm, proper tired sleep as well where i just cant keep my eyes open. Even at work i find myself having to shut my eyes when im in the van.

Has been for a good few years now, i thought it was carbs and still do think they dont help but even if i eat a salad i still feel fked.

Yeah you should look into that. If you're stopping breathing and then gasping for breath as your windpipe is blocked, that's Obstructive Sleep Apnoea. You can sleep through it, or it might be bad enough that you wake up and you think you need to take a leak or that something serious has happened but you don't know what. I've had a handful of the latter and it's not nice - once like boom awake as if it was the middle of the day, another time it was like someone shining a light into my eyes. As per the previous reply to your post, get something to log what your body is doing. If it can log blood oxygen you might see quite a few occurrences of it dropping below 90%. I found that Fitbit watch and app is a bit st. A O2 sensor you clip on your finger (or even a ring like what I have) will often have software for your phone or computer where you can view the logging. Also book in to get wired up with the telemetry overnight, which will tell you that you probably have sleep apnoea! You may have something else going on so get the usual checks done too.

Edited by rodericb on Sunday 29th January 13:38

[rodericb]

Kermit power said:

Thanks for the really detailed reply!

I've got a Resmed Auto which comes with its own software that is scoring me at 98-100/100 every night.

Despite being overweight, my blood pressure, resting heart rate and basically every other stat is spot in where it should be, so I'm wondering if that's why I'm not feeling the gains of some. I'll persevere with it though!

Your body might just be very good at adapting and you're not seeing the extreme symptoms that others do. I've read of people being above 60 AHI per hour and not showing many symptoms at all.

[m3jappa]

Umm thats really interesting. I am aware of getting up for a wee sometimes, sometimes even twice (im 42 so sort of assumed thats normal which it may well be).


Its the tiredness thing which is almost ruining my life. As i say its gone on for years, maybe 10-15 i reckon, gradually getting worse.

I worked out that carbs certainly fk me up during the day, so any carb heavy lunch and ill be really sleepy.

But even cutting the carbs hasn't made much difference (it has lost me some weight though).

Mornings are not good.

I did have some various blood tests a couple of years ago but all came back ok.

I dont have a smart watch, what else can i do? I cant remember not feeling fked.

[rodericb]

If you're stopping breathing while you sleep and then gasping for air that's a sign of an obstruction happening. As it occurs when you're asleep you can't see it yourself - someone else needs to see it. Snoring can also be indicative but not all people who snore have obstructive sleep apnoea (yet). The other way it can be represented in real-time is the drop in blood oxygen levels which occur when you stop breathing. To see that you need a device such as a smart watch which can measure it, but a better option is a proper pulse oximeter (also called an SP02 sensor), and one which records so you can view the data when you're awake (as you won't be able read it when you're asleep).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_oximetry

You might now someone who actually has one due to Covid-19 as they were used to see how badly someone was affected as their oxygen saturation level would drop if their lungs were affected. They're not overly expensive to buy anyway. The best thing is to go to a doctor to be referred to a sleep clinic. Sleep Apnoea may not be the only thing which is affecting you but the sleep assessment will give you some measure of it.

Edited by rodericb on Sunday 29th January 22:58

[Badda]

All these gadgets…lose weight!

[GT03ROB]

Kermit power said:

Obviously a smart watch isn't a medical grade device, but I was amazed at how closely it mirrored the actual medical grade device that the hospital sent out for me to do a home sleep assessment. I certainly think it would give you enough of an indication to be able to share with a GP to request a sleep apnoea assessment referral.

Don't underrate smart watches. I had a serious issue last year & the cardiologist I saw noticing I had one was able to extract some useful information. His view was that whilst they are not medical grade & far from perfect they are plenty good enough to raise a flag & point you in the right direction.

[Kermit power]

Badda said:

All these gadgets…lose weight!

As my consultant put it, "the common response of the ignorant".

Whilst ultimately the best answer for most with sleep apnoea is indeed to lose weight, but the worse the apnoea, the harder it becomes to find the motivation to exercise and eat a good diet. Many people end up hitting the fast burn carbs just to get through rhe day.

None of the gadgets being discussed are being suggested as an alternative to losing weight. They either help diagnose sleep apnoea in the first place, or reduce the impact of it to help give people a better chance of losing weight.

Edited by Kermit power on Monday 30th January 09:53

[andyA700]

m3jappa said:

I will be following this, i recently read about sleep apnoea and did wonder if i have it.

I do snore, although this has been a bit better recently apparently, apparently i do sometimes gasp for breath.

And the one that made me read about it which is the one that really matters is i feel absolutely fked all the time.

I am not aware that im waking up loads in the night though.

I wake up feeling fuzzy, its almost like a mild hangover. If i am not at work then i will by default fall asleep at home, usually around 11am-1pm, proper tired sleep as well where i just cant keep my eyes open. Even at work i find myself having to shut my eyes when im in the van.

Has been for a good few years now, i thought it was carbs and still do think they dont help but even if i eat a salad i still feel fked.

As someone who has had a CPAP machine for twenty years, you sound as if you definitely have sleep apnoea. If you are involuntarily falling asleep at work then there is a problem.
Take this test and then get help soon.

https://nasemso.org/wp-content/uploads/neuro-epwor...

[andyA700]

Badda said:

All these gadgets…lose weight!

Obviously you do not have a clue.
Back in the nineties, I was a superfit (county league badminton) 70kg athlete and I was snoring badly at night, then falling asleep at my desk. My weight gain happened because the doctors failed to diagnose the condition for at least six years.

[harrycovert]

Kermit power said:

I have a Resmed Air sense 10
How do you get the information off the machine?

Thanks for the really detailed reply!

I've got a Resmed Auto which comes with its own software that is scoring me at 98-100/100 every night.

Despite being overweight, my blood pressure, resting heart rate and basically every other stat is spot in where it should be, so I'm wondering if that's why I'm not feeling the gains of some. I'll persevere with it though!

[Kermit power]

harrycovert said:

Kermit power said:

I have a Resmed Air sense 10
How do you get the information off the machine?

Thanks for the really detailed reply!

I've got a Resmed Auto which comes with its own software that is scoring me at 98-100/100 every night.

Despite being overweight, my blood pressure, resting heart rate and basically every other stat is spot in where it should be, so I'm wondering if that's why I'm not feeling the gains of some. I'll persevere with it though!

Assuming this was your question - the formatting has gone a bit pear-shaped - then there's a Resmed App called myAir. It's really simple to set up. Just requires you to enter the serial number of the machine and a few other bits and pieces.

[rodericb]

The Resmed app gets data from Resmed, which gets it off your machine if it's sending the data up to Resmed. If you don't want any of that faff there's a application called Oscar, which reads data off the SD card.

https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/

It will work on quite a few CPAP machines (not just resmed). It is also able to work with some SP02 monitors and overlay that data into the CPAP machine data.

[Kermit power]

rodericb said:

The Resmed app gets data from Resmed, which gets it off your machine if it's sending the data up to Resmed. If you don't want any of that faff there's a application called Oscar, which reads data off the SD card.

https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/

It will work on quite a few CPAP machines (not just resmed). It is also able to work with some SP02 monitors and overlay that data into the CPAP machine data.

I wouldn't call it a faff?

The hospital set the initial data collection up anyway, as they want to see the data, and it takes literally about a minute to set the phone up, and the data just appears there shortly after waking up the following morning.

I was quite surprised that they didn't even ask me to connect it to my wifi; it obviously has its own SIM to be able to send the data back.

[NormalWisdom]

Will be keeping an eye on this one as got tested 2 weeks ago and had 45 episodes and hour apparently. Waiting for next stage in the process.

As someone said earlier, weight loss would help I have no doubt (I am a very chunky boy) but, getting motivated to exercise when constantly exhausted is a problem.

[rodericb]

Kermit power said:

I wouldn't call it a faff?

The hospital set the initial data collection up anyway, as they want to see the data, and it takes literally about a minute to set the phone up, and the data just appears there shortly after waking up the following morning.

I was quite surprised that they didn't even ask me to connect it to my wifi; it obviously has its own SIM to be able to send the data back.

Some people may not have a smart phone, have reliable mobile broadband or even that your mileage my vary with regards to whoever is providing your CPAP advice and you want to see the gory details yourself.......

The resmeds usually have 3G or 4G modems inbuilt. They don't connect to your wireless network. Due to component shortages they've been producing batches of machines without the inbuilt modems and now have a thing called Card-to-Cloud where you get the SD card out of the machine, get it (or the data) to whatever 'professional' looks after your sleep and they upload it to Resmed somehow. All the machines have SD cards. Oscar (formerly known as Sleepyhead) shows a lot more data. It all depends on what you want to see. I didn't download the resmed software when I was using the resmed device - I got Oscar. With the Fisher & Paykel machine I've got this week I do have the relevant app only phone and it just gives you summaries.

This is what you see in Oscar:

Edited by rodericb on Tuesday 31st January 08:04