Glaucoma (open-angle) and the DVLA

[Lightemup]

Title should read Open-Angle Glaucoma, not Wide Angle.

My late mother had Glaucoma and now unfortunately it's my turn.

Because of my mother's Glaucoma my optician has been keeping a close eye on my pressures and field of vision for years and recently a field of vision test revealed that the far edge of the top left segment of my right eye wasn't as sensitive to light as it should be. Pressures in both eyes are high but not terribly so. I don't notice any issues at all with my vision (other than needing glasses for reading, which has been the case for about ten years).

Was referred to an ophthalmologist and and he did his own tests - I'm now on eye drops, seemingly no need for surgery as it's the common open-angle type of Glaucoma, early onset and very minor. My ophthalmologist said he would be extremely surprised if it caused any problems with the DVLA.

Nevertheless was advised to notify the DVLA due to the condition and did so, after a few weeks received a letter telling me to make an appointment with a local Specsavers (there's a contract between the two for eye tests). The field of vision test that's done with Specsavers isn't one eye at a time, it's both eyes at once therefore binocular vision and of course easier and more relevant for driving. I got an easy 100% in the test. Specsavers then pass on the test info to the DVLA.

This was about two weeks ago. I'm still waiting to hear back from the DVLA (I know they've had a large backlog of late). Since then I've read a few horror stories online about people with Glaucoma having had their driving licence revoked by the DVLA even though they passed the Specsavers test. Seemingly this happened for various reasons and all got their licenses back but it took months and a lot of stress and hassle to do so.

This concerns me a lot, it's been preying on my mind a great deal, although I do realise that I'm probably worrying unnecessarily - that said, I want to be prepared for any worst case scenario. That's just the way that my brain works.

If on the remote chance they revoke my licence for some reason what can I do? Driving is incredibly important to me and being unable to drive would cause me a lot of problems.

If they were to revoke my licence I know that I'll want to speak to somebody high up very speedily (I know that the main DVLA phone number has a very long wait time as I tried a few times to phone them when I was initially diagnosed and prior to the Specsavers test), is anyone aware of a lesser known DVLA number that I could call, or an email address? I'm assuming that there must be some 'higher ups' who could swiftly resolve any issue?

Yeah I know, as I said I'm probably worrying unnecessarily, but I like to be prepared, it helps put my mind at rest.

Edited by Lightemup on Sunday 2nd October 14:24

[Bone Rat]

The important thing with visual fields is what licence is involved. The standards for car and lorry driving are substantially different, the lorry ones being very strict and only allowing a small loss at the top or bottom.

I assume this is a car licence, in this case the defect has to be pretty substantial in the outer field to affect licensing. A defect in the central field can result in licence loss but this would be unlikely in early OAG.
If you only have a little loss in the peripheral area of 1 eye this will be compensated for by the good eye, so you should have a full field. This is the reason why both eyes are tested at the same time and not individually as they are for clinical care. The regulations specify a binocular field.

The backlog at dvla is significant and causes a long delay, there is a priotising of lorry and bus licences so car decisions are even more delayed.

If your consultant is relaxed and specsavers were positive I'd relax

[numtumfutunch]

You probs dont need to hear this but...........

I was diagnosed with a medical problem this time last year

I spoke to the DVLA after spending literally hours on hold and was advised to voluntarily surrender my licence - this was the best advice they gave me not that theyve given me much else

In January my consultant and my GP both agreed I could start driving again so I applied to have my licence reinstated and paid for a medical report from the GP and supplied copies of my hospital notes which detailed I could safely drive. The fact that I surrendered my licence as opposed to having it revoked should have simplified things

I then spoke to the DVLA on the phone who said I could legally drive whilst waiting for the papers to be processed

On hearing nothing in May I phoned again and was told my papers had been received and all was well and as I had voluntarily handed in my licence I could still drive but that things were in hand

In September they sent me a letter saying theyd asked my consultant for a medical report and also a covering note saying I was still allowed to drive

Well no whatsit Sherlock but the notes I sent them in January documented the consultant saying I could drive as did the bloody medical report I paid my GP to write too

Frustrating is not the word

As you can tell Im frustrated that I sent them solid evidence 10 months ago from GP and consultant which I paid decent money for and yet Im still not officially cleared

Because COVID or something...............
Whatever its beyond poor

And relax

[Lightemup]

numtumfutunch said:

You probs dont need to hear this but...........

I was diagnosed with a medical problem this time last year

I spoke to the DVLA after spending literally hours on hold and was advised to voluntarily surrender my licence - this was the best advice they gave me not that theyve given me much else

In January my consultant and my GP both agreed I could start driving again so I applied to have my licence reinstated and paid for a medical report from the GP and supplied copies of my hospital notes which detailed I could safely drive. The fact that I surrendered my licence as opposed to having it revoked should have simplified things

I then spoke to the DVLA on the phone who said I could legally drive whilst waiting for the papers to be processed

On hearing nothing in May I phoned again and was told my papers had been received and all was well and as I had voluntarily handed in my licence I could still drive but that things were in hand

In September they sent me a letter saying theyd asked my consultant for a medical report and also a covering note saying I was still allowed to drive

Well no whatsit Sherlock but the notes I sent them in January documented the consultant saying I could drive as did the bloody medical report I paid my GP to write too

Frustrating is not the word

As you can tell Im frustrated that I sent them solid evidence 10 months ago from GP and consultant which I paid decent money for and yet Im still not officially cleared

Because COVID or something...............
Whatever its beyond poor

And relax

Sorry to hear about your medical problem.

Regarding your DVLA experience: how incredibly frustrating, sounds like this is down to a lack of staff and/or coordination?

On the positive side, at least they said you can still drive while waiting for the processing of the papers - even so it seems nuts that it's taking such a long time.

Edited by Lightemup on Monday 3rd October 12:10

[Lightemup]

Bone Rat said:

The important thing with visual fields is what licence is involved. The standards for car and lorry driving are substantially different, the lorry ones being very strict and only allowing a small loss at the top or bottom.

I assume this is a car licence, in this case the defect has to be pretty substantial in the outer field to affect licensing. A defect in the central field can result in licence loss but this would be unlikely in early OAG.
If you only have a little loss in the peripheral area of 1 eye this will be compensated for by the good eye, so you should have a full field. This is the reason why both eyes are tested at the same time and not individually as they are for clinical care. The regulations specify a binocular field.

The backlog at dvla is significant and causes a long delay, there is a priotising of lorry and bus licences so car decisions are even more delayed.

If your consultant is relaxed and specsavers were positive I'd relax

Thanks very much for the positive words and encouragement, I'll try and relax then.

I would though love to know if there's a lesser know phone number or email address to contact the DVLA for a speedy response if for any reason they have issues with my Glaucoma. I'm sure there's direct lines and email addresses to certain higher level staff which are used under certain circumstances.

Yes, I'm only a car driver.

I had the full field binocular test and the fact that I passed it with 100% at Specsavers should be a positive thing, I'm just worried about some mistake occurring at the DVLA due to their heavy work load. Driving really is that important to me.

This does though raise the following observation and question: people with only one eye are allowed to drive, so even if a person with Glaucoma had a defect in the central field of ONE eye surely that shouldn't result in licence loss?

Finally, if there is such a backlog at the DVLA why don't they employ more staff? Or are there funding and/or training issues?

[Bone Rat]

Lightemup said:

Bone Rat said:

The important thing with visual fields is what licence is involved. The standards for car and lorry driving are substantially different, the lorry ones being very strict and only allowing a small loss at the top or bottom.

I assume this is a car licence, in this case the defect has to be pretty substantial in the outer field to affect licensing. A defect in the central field can result in licence loss but this would be unlikely in early OAG.
If you only have a little loss in the peripheral area of 1 eye this will be compensated for by the good eye, so you should have a full field. This is the reason why both eyes are tested at the same time and not individually as they are for clinical care. The regulations specify a binocular field.

The backlog at dvla is significant and causes a long delay, there is a priotising of lorry and bus licences so car decisions are even more delayed.

If your consultant is relaxed and specsavers were positive I'd relax

Thanks very much for the positive words and encouragement, I'll try and relax then.

I would though love to know if there's a lesser know phone number or email address to contact the DVLA for a speedy response if for any reason they have issues with my Glaucoma. I'm sure there's direct lines and email addresses to certain higher level staff which are used under certain circumstances.

Yes, I'm only a car driver.

I had the full field binocular test and the fact that I passed it with 100% at Specsavers should be a positive thing, I'm just worried about some mistake occurring at the DVLA due to their heavy work load. Driving really is that important to me.

This does though raise the following observation and question: people with only one eye are allowed to drive, so even if a person with Glaucoma had a defect in the central field of ONE eye surely that shouldn't result in licence loss?

Finally, if there is such a backlog at the DVLA why don't they employ more staff? Or are there funding and/or training issues?

Hi,
Regarding the question about one eye and loss. If there is only one eye a car driver can continue to drive once they are used to it. If this loss was due to trauma, removal or any other one off incident then there is no concern.
However they will still have meet the standards for visual fields and acuity (sharpness of vision) in the remaining eye. If they develop glaucoma etc in that eye,any potentially progressive condition then a licence can be lost (allowance is made for the blind spot).

If both eyes are present and there is a central field loss in one eye there should not be any problem as the vision in the good eye compensates - it covers the missing area. This is the reason why both eyes are tested at once. It wouldn't result in revocation.

If there is no field loss apparent on binocular testing there would be no reason to restrict the licence to 3 years either. Had to research this as family members have glaucoma as well.

Most fields that are likely to result in revocation are pulled out for early action on safety grounds so ironically the delay in a decision is somewhat reassuring.

The problems with delays result from the type of info used for processing, most isn't black and white and calls for the info to be read and interpreted. There are about 450 clerical officers and 40 Drs there, numbers of cases are around 1M pa. In the current climate expansion won't happen.

Best way of getting your case processed is to be a PITA and phone repeatedly! Or get gp to mail [e-mail]

[Lightemup]

Bone Rat said:

[b]Hi,
Regarding the question about one eye and loss. If there is only one eye a car driver can continue to drive once they are used to it. If this loss was due to trauma, removal or any other one off incident then there is no concern.
However they will still have meet the standards for visual fields and acuity (sharpness of vision) in the remaining eye. If they develop glaucoma etc in that eye,any potentially progressive condition then a licence can be lost (allowance is made for the blind spot).
[/b]

Thanks, that is logical and makes sense.

Note: in the rest of this message, your remarks are in bold with double quotes.

"If both eyes are present and there is a central field loss in one eye there should not be any problem as the vision in the good eye compensates - it covers the missing area. This is the reason why both eyes are tested at once. It wouldn't result in revocation."

Good to know, thanks again.

"If there is no field loss apparent on binocular testing there would be no reason to restrict the licence to 3 years either. Had to research this as family members have glaucoma as well."

That's interesting as I was going to ask how often repeat testing would be required. So maybe I'll not need any repeat testing given that I score 100% with binocular testing (unless of course my optician or ophthalmologist picks up any change in either eye)?

"Most fields that are likely to result in revocation are pulled out for early action on safety grounds so ironically the delay in a decision is somewhat reassuring."

That gives me some more hope for a positive outcome (my Specsavers test was carried out nearly three weeks ago).

"The problems with delays result from the type of info used for processing, most isn't black and white and calls for the info to be read and interpreted. There are about 450 clerical officers and 40 Drs there, numbers of cases are around 1M pa. In the current climate expansion won't happen."

I'm interpreting that along the lines of mistakes can occur, but from what I've read recently it can apparently it also takes a long time to rectify any mistakes (due to the same reasons why they occurred in the first place, namely lack of staff)?

Then again, if a person passes a field vision test with a 100% score then how can that be misinterpreted?

Might I ask, how do you know so much about the DVLA? Do you work there?

"Best way of getting your case processed is to be a PITA and phone repeatedly! Or get gp to mail [e-mail]"

That's very useful, I assume that my ophthalmologist could send an email to that address instead of my GP?

[Bone Rat]

Lightemup said:

Bone Rat said:

[b]Hi,
Regarding the question about one eye and loss. If there is only one eye a car driver can continue to drive once they are used to it. If this loss was due to trauma, removal or any other one off incident then there is no concern.
However they will still have meet the standards for visual fields and acuity (sharpness of vision) in the remaining eye. If they develop glaucoma etc in that eye,any potentially progressive condition then a licence can be lost (allowance is made for the blind spot).
[/b]

Thanks, that is logical and makes sense.

Note: in the rest of this message, your remarks are in bold with double quotes.

"If both eyes are present and there is a central field loss in one eye there should not be any problem as the vision in the good eye compensates - it covers the missing area. This is the reason why both eyes are tested at once. It wouldn't result in revocation."

Good to know, thanks again.

"If there is no field loss apparent on binocular testing there would be no reason to restrict the licence to 3 years either. Had to research this as family members have glaucoma as well."

That's interesting as I was going to ask how often repeat testing would be required. So maybe I'll not need any repeat testing given that I score 100% with binocular testing (unless of course my optician or ophthalmologist picks up any change in either eye)?

"Most fields that are likely to result in revocation are pulled out for early action on safety grounds so ironically the delay in a decision is somewhat reassuring."

That gives me some more hope for a positive outcome (my Specsavers test was carried out nearly three weeks ago).

"The problems with delays result from the type of info used for processing, most isn't black and white and calls for the info to be read and interpreted. There are about 450 clerical officers and 40 Drs there, numbers of cases are around 1M pa. In the current climate expansion won't happen."

I'm interpreting that along the lines of mistakes can occur, but from what I've read recently it can apparently it also takes a long time to rectify any mistakes (due to the same reasons why they occurred in the first place, namely lack of staff)?

Then again, if a person passes a field vision test with a 100% score then how can that be misinterpreted?

Might I ask, how do you know so much about the DVLA? Do you work there?

"Best way of getting your case processed is to be a PITA and phone repeatedly! Or get gp to mail [e-mail]"

That's very useful, I assume that my ophthalmologist could send an email to that address instead of my GP?

Hi,

No problem, as regards the 100% score, little more complex as the reliability rates of the test have to be checked, does require someone to eyeball it, sometimes just to check the chart is readable due to scanning issues. Generally if there is no loss on the visual field then a review licence is not issued and it's up to the driver to notify of any changes. Issuing a review licence has implications for C1/D1 licences if you are an 'older driver'.

The delays do result from the COVID lockdown, as well as DVLA being short staffed over the lockdown the NHS cut back on non clinical work, that is DWP, DVLA type reports, catching up with this caused a surge in numbers. Internal processing is slow, three weeks is starters only unfortunately, so I really would chill. Would be more concerned if it had bounced back straight away for the above mentioned reasons.

GP or consultant could email but being a nuisance does aid things as does any effect on work, caring etc. People are human there. I am a retired medic & no longer practice now and have worked there amongst other places, used to be very familiar with the standards.

[Lightemup]

Bone Rat said:

Hi,

No problem, as regards the 100% score, little more complex as the reliability rates of the test have to be checked, does require someone to eyeball it, sometimes just to check the chart is readable due to scanning issues. Generally if there is no loss on the visual field then a review licence is not issued and it's up to the driver to notify of any changes. Issuing a review licence has implications for C1/D1 licences if you are an 'older driver'.

Reliability rates of the test? Do you mean how consistent I was with clicking the button on seeing a light? Or do you mean the testing setup of the machine?

When you say the 'visual field' I assume that you mean the test that I had at Specsavers? (click the button when you see a small light). And '"no loss" means clicking the button for every light using binocular vision?

Didn't realise that they would issue a new but time limited licence if required, I had assumed that if they wanted me to be re-tested in 'x' years I would retain my existing llcence and then they'd remind me to get retested in 'x' years. If I was issued with a time limited licence I assume that it's up to me to make sure that I get re-tested in time before it expires? And then of course the analysis of the test could be delayed due to, perhaps, staffing issues? If so then would any delays by the DVLA mean that I could still drive even if a time limited licence had expired?

The delays do result from the COVID lockdown, as well as DVLA being short staffed over the lockdown the NHS cut back on non clinical work, that is DWP, DVLA type reports, catching up with this caused a surge in numbers. Internal processing is slow, three weeks is starters only unfortunately, so I really would chill. Would be more concerned if it had bounced back straight away for the above mentioned reasons.

Okay, I'll chill on the waiting. For a while at least.

GP or consultant could email but being a nuisance does aid things as does any effect on work, caring etc. People are human there.

How long would you recommend that I leave it before chasing the DVLA myself or asking my ophthalmologist to chase them? Four weeks perhaps or longer?

I am a retired medic & no longer practice now and have worked there amongst other places, used to be very familiar with the standards.

Ah, I see. That explains your knowledge. Thanks for your service over the years. Must have been a very rewarding but also a very stressful job.

Edited by Lightemup on Monday 3rd October 20:06

[Bone Rat]

Lightemup said:

Bone Rat said:

Hi,

No problem, as regards the 100% score, little more complex as the reliability rates of the test have to be checked, does require someone to eyeball it, sometimes just to check the chart is readable due to scanning issues. Generally if there is no loss on the visual field then a review licence is not issued and it's up to the driver to notify of any changes. Issuing a review licence has implications for C1/D1 licences if you are an 'older driver'.

Reliability rates of the test? Do you mean how consistent I was with clicking the button on seeing a light? Or do you mean the testing setup of the machine?

the machine is very reliable, accurate and automated so it takes out the human influence and errors. There are in built error checks to prevent 'gaming' the test - sometimes the mechanism operates but does not show a light to distinguish those using an audio que or clicking every time it activates. likewise it checks already seen spots to check on consistency and fatigue levels. The Specsavers test is the visual field test

When you say the 'visual field' I assume that you mean the test that I had at Specsavers? (click the button when you see a small light). And '"no loss" means clicking the button for every light using binocular vision?

Didn't realise that they would issue a new but time limited licence if required, I had assumed that if they wanted me to be re-tested in 'x' years I would retain my existing llcence and then they'd remind me to get retested in 'x' years. If I was issued with a time limited licence I assume that it's up to me to make sure that I get re-tested in time before it expires? And then of course the analysis of the test could be delayed due to, perhaps, staffing issues? If so then would any delays by the DVLA mean that I could still drive even if a time limited licence had expired?

I'm a bit out of the loop now over processes but there are 2 likely outcomes - you may be told to retain your licence, basically thanks for letting us know but nil else to do or you may be issued with a review licence, typically 3 to 5 years long. When that expires a renewal should be automatically generated provided your address is correct (one reason to keep the details up to date). When that happens you send the paperwork back, there is no cost to renewal, providing the application is at the Agency you will be able to continue driving - (obvs unless someone medical has told you to stop ASAP!). The important bit is top get the application back to them.

The delays do result from the COVID lockdown, as well as DVLA being short staffed over the lockdown the NHS cut back on non clinical work, that is DWP, DVLA type reports, catching up with this caused a surge in numbers. Internal processing is slow, three weeks is starters only unfortunately, so I really would chill. Would be more concerned if it had bounced back straight away for the above mentioned reasons.

Okay, I'll chill on the waiting. For a while at least.

GP or consultant could email but being a nuisance does aid things as does any effect on work, caring etc. People are human there.

How long would you recommend that I leave it before chasing the DVLA myself or asking my ophthalmologist to chase them? Four weeks perhaps or longer?

really would give it another month, it was slow it's really slow now

I am a retired medic & no longer practice now and have worked there amongst other places, used to be very familiar with the standards.

Ah, I see. That explains your knowledge. Thanks for your service over the years. Must have been a very rewarding but also a very stressful job.

[b]Thank you, it was medically interesting, a different stress to being a GP. Despite what you may read a lot of effort was made to try to keep people driving as long as safely possible. I'm here because I love driving and cars and did recognise people wanted to continue.
Sorry for the delay in getting back, real life intervenes these days,
Good luck with it [/b]

Edited by Lightemup on Monday 3rd October 20:06

[Lightemup]

Bone Rat said:

the machine is very reliable, accurate and automated so it takes out the human influence and errors. There are in built error checks to prevent 'gaming' the test - sometimes the mechanism operates but does not show a light to distinguish those using an audio que or clicking every time it activates. likewise it checks already seen spots to check on consistency and fatigue levels. The Specsavers test is the visual field test

Thanks for that explanation.

I'm a bit out of the loop now over processes but there are 2 likely outcomes - you may be told to retain your licence, basically thanks for letting us know but nil else to do or you may be issued with a review licence, typically 3 to 5 years long. When that expires a renewal should be automatically generated provided your address is correct (one reason to keep the details up to date). When that happens you send the paperwork back, there is no cost to renewal, providing the application is at the Agency you will be able to continue driving - (obvs unless someone medical has told you to stop ASAP!). The important bit is top get the application back to them.

Interesting, I'm curious about the automatic generation of a renewal for a review licence, As a few years will have passed I had assumed that the DVLA would first want the binocular visual field test to be re-done. Very curious.

really would give it another month, it was slow it's really slow now

Noted, thanks.

[Bone Rat]

Lightemup said:

Interesting, I'm curious about the automatic generation of a renewal for a review licence, As a few years will have passed I had assumed that the DVLA would first want the binocular visual field test to be re-done. Very curious.

If I remember correctly, if there are no missed points on the chart, that is an entirely clear chart then a review licence would not be issued, the licence would just be retained - the driver continued using the original licence entitlement to age 70. The emphasis in the law is for the driver to notify if there is any change. Drs won't notify as a routine. In practice the consultant would say 'you should tell them it's changed so they can repeat the tests'. No need to do repeats if there is no loss.

If there were missed points then a review licence would be issued, 1 to 5 years depending on the extent of the loss. When the licence was due to expire the IT system generated a renewal and then sent out the paperwork (and it is paper). On receipt of the completed application forms back there a repeat SpecSaver exam would be requested. Used to be only done if there was evidence of loss on the binocular chart - otherwise too many tests are done when not needed.

May have changed as numbers will force changes in the processes.

[Lightemup]

Bone Rat said:

If I remember correctly, if there are no missed points on the chart, that is an entirely clear chart then a review licence would not be issued, the licence would just be retained - the driver continued using the original licence entitlement to age 70. The emphasis in the law is for the driver to notify if there is any change. Drs won't notify as a routine. In practice the consultant would say 'you should tell them it's changed so they can repeat the tests'. No need to do repeats if there is no loss.

If there were missed points then a review licence would be issued, 1 to 5 years depending on the extent of the loss. When the licence was due to expire the IT system generated a renewal and then sent out the paperwork (and it is paper). On receipt of the completed application forms back there a repeat SpecSaver exam would be requested. Used to be only done if there was evidence of loss on the binocular chart - otherwise too many tests are done when not needed.

May have changed as numbers will force changes in the processes.

Thanks very much, very informative and useful as always.

If a review licence is issued and the DVLA require another Specsavers test (due to the expiry date approaching), then if there is a delay with the DVLA processing the results of the new test, and if that delay goes beyond the expiry date of the older review licence, will the driver be unable to drive? Or, because it's the DVLA causing the delay, would the review licence still be valid even though it had expired? Just curious.

[Bone Rat]

Lightemup said:

Thanks very much, very informative and useful as always.

If a review licence is issued and the DVLA require another Specsavers test (due to the expiry date approaching), then if there is a delay with the DVLA processing the results of the new test, and if that delay goes beyond the expiry date of the older review licence, will the driver be unable to drive? Or, because it's the DVLA causing the delay, would the review licence still be valid even though it had expired? Just curious.

Very simple answer, YES - providing the application is there in DVLA and no one has explicitly advised you CANNOT drive then you are able to carry on until a decision is made, Google Section 88 Road Traffic Act for the definitive info. Likely to have to submit another set of application papers if it takes over a year though, hopefully won't take that long!

[Lightemup]

Bone Rat said:

Very simple answer, YES - providing the application is there in DVLA and no one has explicitly advised you CANNOT drive then you are able to carry on until a decision is made, Google Section 88 Road Traffic Act for the definitive info. Likely to have to submit another set of application papers if it takes over a year though, hopefully won't take that long!

Thanks once again for your excellent information. :-)