Getting off the hamster wheel
Discussion
I'm mid 40s, single, no kids, big-ish mortgage. Work in a corporate setting in an IT related field. I've always been fairly successful in my career, had a few promotions and climbed the greasy pole as is expected. Feel like I do a good job and get good feedback. I wouldn't say it's what I grew up dreaming of (that was F1 driver or doctor) but it's ok. Sleep, work, eat, repeat. Weekends to recover ready for Monday.
Recently back from a week's holiday in the countryside, where I find thoughts always turn to life and work - the events that got me to where I am today, and the decisions that I take to shape my future.
For example, standing by a beautiful, deserted lake set in stunning scenery - I could open a cafe, kayaking, paddle boarding outdoor centre here. Seeing an empty unit in a lovely high street - I could open a lovely little book shop there. I need to invent an app and sell it, then I won't have to worry about money. My mind is constantly racing! Anyone else?!
But how do you break the cycle of working to pay the mortgage and bills that you have to support you working? Should one just accept that a job is a job and you aren't "supposed" to enjoy it?
Interested in anyone who has taken the plunge, and broken the cycle. Or, alternatively, decided to tough it out doing what they do.
Recently back from a week's holiday in the countryside, where I find thoughts always turn to life and work - the events that got me to where I am today, and the decisions that I take to shape my future.
For example, standing by a beautiful, deserted lake set in stunning scenery - I could open a cafe, kayaking, paddle boarding outdoor centre here. Seeing an empty unit in a lovely high street - I could open a lovely little book shop there. I need to invent an app and sell it, then I won't have to worry about money. My mind is constantly racing! Anyone else?!
But how do you break the cycle of working to pay the mortgage and bills that you have to support you working? Should one just accept that a job is a job and you aren't "supposed" to enjoy it?
Interested in anyone who has taken the plunge, and broken the cycle. Or, alternatively, decided to tough it out doing what they do.
I suppose it’s all income dependent. If you are single and can only support yourself without much of disposable income then it’s harder to get out of the hamster wheel.
On the other hand if you have a bit of disposable income then is relatively easy to lessen the burden of work.
When I was single my living costs were about 25% of my take home pay. Since marriage, children and mortgage things are not as rosy as that, even though I earn a lot more. What I mean is that being without dependents gives you the best chance to save.
And what money does well is giving you options.
On the other hand if you have a bit of disposable income then is relatively easy to lessen the burden of work.
When I was single my living costs were about 25% of my take home pay. Since marriage, children and mortgage things are not as rosy as that, even though I earn a lot more. What I mean is that being without dependents gives you the best chance to save.
And what money does well is giving you options.
I always wanted to run my own business, talked about it for years. I made the jump from a fairly mundane 9-5 to being a business owner in my late 20s.
Its been, very, very hard work. Until last year I took very few holidays and those that I did take were always just weekends. For 15 years I probably averaged 10 days off a year.
Dealing with employees, suppliers, customers you are basically doing 10 jobs in 1. If its a regulated business (most are these days) then there is a whole other level to the stress.
Its great if you can come up with an idea for a low effort self running business but the reality is very few businesses offer this. Almost all take your time and energy 100%. All those little things you miss, weekends away with mates, birthdays etc. Even funerals in some cases.
I was earning good money in my 9-5 and had zero risk. Yes there was always redundancy or re-orgs hanging over your head but you don't realise just how safe you are as an employee until you run your own business. Looking back I would have been much better off to have stayed PAYE just in life quality and also security and less stress. I dont like to think what the last 15 years did to my health.
I was lucky, whilst it wasn't hugely successful I did manage to turn profits most years. Which I then invested into pensions and other investments.
Unfortunately covid saw the long slow death of the business and it never recovered. I wasn't sad to see it go. I am now taking a (very) long break. I don't like to say "retired" because I get a lot of strange looks due to my age but if everything works out I hopefully will make this a permanent break.
If something lands in my lap that I actually want to do and would enjoy I would probably give it a go.
And I think thats the key, if you do start something it has to be something you are really passionate about. Basically something you would do anyway for no money. Then you are onto a winner. The problem is these are few and far between!
Its been, very, very hard work. Until last year I took very few holidays and those that I did take were always just weekends. For 15 years I probably averaged 10 days off a year.
Dealing with employees, suppliers, customers you are basically doing 10 jobs in 1. If its a regulated business (most are these days) then there is a whole other level to the stress.
Its great if you can come up with an idea for a low effort self running business but the reality is very few businesses offer this. Almost all take your time and energy 100%. All those little things you miss, weekends away with mates, birthdays etc. Even funerals in some cases.
I was earning good money in my 9-5 and had zero risk. Yes there was always redundancy or re-orgs hanging over your head but you don't realise just how safe you are as an employee until you run your own business. Looking back I would have been much better off to have stayed PAYE just in life quality and also security and less stress. I dont like to think what the last 15 years did to my health.
I was lucky, whilst it wasn't hugely successful I did manage to turn profits most years. Which I then invested into pensions and other investments.
Unfortunately covid saw the long slow death of the business and it never recovered. I wasn't sad to see it go. I am now taking a (very) long break. I don't like to say "retired" because I get a lot of strange looks due to my age but if everything works out I hopefully will make this a permanent break.
If something lands in my lap that I actually want to do and would enjoy I would probably give it a go.
And I think thats the key, if you do start something it has to be something you are really passionate about. Basically something you would do anyway for no money. Then you are onto a winner. The problem is these are few and far between!
My partner and I had similar thoughts about 14years ago…… sold everything and moved out to the French Alps to become a ski bum…… no longer living in the alps, now have a ski related business but far from gone corporate.
My advice, go for it…. The worst that can happen is at some point down the line you need to pop back into the corporate world but you’ll be richer for it.
My advice, go for it…. The worst that can happen is at some point down the line you need to pop back into the corporate world but you’ll be richer for it.
I was a hairdresser for 20 years, quite good at it too. i suppose in hindsight i should have gone my own way and opened a shop, but i never really believed in myself. After falling out of love with it, politics, and the usual weekly patterns of work/weekends, i became increasingly unhappy. at the time i was about 35 and effectively at the top of my career without becoming an owner.
Just thinking i would do the same for another 30 years seemed pretty depressing, so i started looking for an out.
We had just had a little one, and my wife was then a full time mum, so i couldn't afford to quit work and re-train in something else. I don't want this to be political, but brexit was the final straw for me, soon Europe would be all but closed to us, and we wanted to have some stability for our child as they grew up, so, we sold everything. not quite, but almost everything we owned, and went travelling to find our utopia. My experience is that it doesn't really exist, the majority is in your head, but you can find something thats a better fit.
After 9 months in a camper, through 9 countries, we sold our camper back in the uk, and arrived in Italy with two suitcases between the three of us.
No language, not a lot of money, and no work. It hasn't been an easy run by any stretch, but its getting better all the time. i now work outdoors, gardening mainly, with some promising opportunities in the future. Nothing that'll make me rich, but enough to ease financial worry.
we have a very modest house in the mountains in northern tuscany. Friends say were like the good life tv program, i wouldn't know, i've never seen it, but we have a little patch of land we are trying to grow some veg on, keep some chickens, have just started the process of making wine from our grapes, that sort of thing.
They (whoever they are) always say you regret the things you don't do, but then again, they also say the grass is always greener.....
It has been hard, very hard. Lonely with 2 years of covid and no visitors, constantly saying the wrong thing as we are trying to learn the language (asking for fish juice instead of peach is a go to for me
) but we have been greeted with such warmth, we feel better connected with our surroundings, and i suppose i can see the potential for ourselves moving forward.
Only you can really decide what you're prepared to give and for what you would like in return.
Best of luck to you.
Just thinking i would do the same for another 30 years seemed pretty depressing, so i started looking for an out.
We had just had a little one, and my wife was then a full time mum, so i couldn't afford to quit work and re-train in something else. I don't want this to be political, but brexit was the final straw for me, soon Europe would be all but closed to us, and we wanted to have some stability for our child as they grew up, so, we sold everything. not quite, but almost everything we owned, and went travelling to find our utopia. My experience is that it doesn't really exist, the majority is in your head, but you can find something thats a better fit.
After 9 months in a camper, through 9 countries, we sold our camper back in the uk, and arrived in Italy with two suitcases between the three of us.
No language, not a lot of money, and no work. It hasn't been an easy run by any stretch, but its getting better all the time. i now work outdoors, gardening mainly, with some promising opportunities in the future. Nothing that'll make me rich, but enough to ease financial worry.
we have a very modest house in the mountains in northern tuscany. Friends say were like the good life tv program, i wouldn't know, i've never seen it, but we have a little patch of land we are trying to grow some veg on, keep some chickens, have just started the process of making wine from our grapes, that sort of thing.
They (whoever they are) always say you regret the things you don't do, but then again, they also say the grass is always greener.....
It has been hard, very hard. Lonely with 2 years of covid and no visitors, constantly saying the wrong thing as we are trying to learn the language (asking for fish juice instead of peach is a go to for me
) but we have been greeted with such warmth, we feel better connected with our surroundings, and i suppose i can see the potential for ourselves moving forward. Only you can really decide what you're prepared to give and for what you would like in return.
Best of luck to you.
Edited by craigthecoupe on Monday 19th September 20:59
I’d stop reading any kind of article that mentions phrases like ‘happiness’, ‘life work balance’ or ‘work to live’. I think it’s the height of arrogance that humans in western societies have these crises concerning work. The majority of your ancestors, not to mention the majority of all the other humans currently on the planet, would swap places with you without hesitation.
And this notion that we should be strive to be happy is nonsense. Again, the majority of your ancestors didn’t have the time, or the inclination, to worry about being happy, whatever that means.
I’d recommend reading the stoics. Life is difficult, and the best you can hope for are small periods of respite where you can find peace. Any more than that and you are doing exceptionally well.
I think there’s also a fallacy regarding owning and running your own business. Is it rewarding? Of course it is. But it’s far more consuming that working for someone else. Invariably, if you want to be a success, it’ll consume your every thought 24/7, at least for the first few years. And if you are lucky enough that the business does survive beyond the first couple of years, there’s often pressure to grow. That brings with it a set of new problems, such as managing staff, which completely changes the dynamic, and can often turn a dream into something not so dreamlike.
Having said all that, I would never go back to working for someone else.
And this notion that we should be strive to be happy is nonsense. Again, the majority of your ancestors didn’t have the time, or the inclination, to worry about being happy, whatever that means.
I’d recommend reading the stoics. Life is difficult, and the best you can hope for are small periods of respite where you can find peace. Any more than that and you are doing exceptionally well.
I think there’s also a fallacy regarding owning and running your own business. Is it rewarding? Of course it is. But it’s far more consuming that working for someone else. Invariably, if you want to be a success, it’ll consume your every thought 24/7, at least for the first few years. And if you are lucky enough that the business does survive beyond the first couple of years, there’s often pressure to grow. That brings with it a set of new problems, such as managing staff, which completely changes the dynamic, and can often turn a dream into something not so dreamlike.
Having said all that, I would never go back to working for someone else.
BorkBorkBork said:
The majority of your ancestors, not to mention the majority of all the other humans currently on the planet, would swap places with you without hesitation.
And this notion that we should be strive to be happy is nonsense. Again, the majority of your ancestors didn’t have the time, or the inclination, to worry about being happy, whatever that means.
Interesting...And this notion that we should be strive to be happy is nonsense. Again, the majority of your ancestors didn’t have the time, or the inclination, to worry about being happy, whatever that means.
I wonder if anyone can point me in the 'correct' social terms/research for this, but essentially seems like there is increasing evidence our brains are simply not designed to be 'happy'. Having everything you want in life may actually make you more unhappy.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug...
Sense of accomplishment, feeling 'alive', avoiding disaster etc, having those experiences regularly might actually contribute to feeling 'happy' much more than a 'perfect' life/job setup?
In the early 70s, I'd got two young kids, a wife whom I loved, and still do, but I was in a boring job. I literally perforated paper tape. One time at work, I said something that was identical to what a colleague had said 10 years before. I laughed at the time. When I said it, I cringed.
I changed job, in my case joining the police. It meant a drop in wages, longer hours and a certain risk factor.
One Sunday morning some 22 months into the job, I went up the NatWest Tower, then under construction, in a builders' lift with no floor, just rails. It took its time. At the top, the security guard collapsed with a perforated ulcer. Lots and lots of blood. I took him down in the lift - that was about as much fun as holding a comatose fat bloke onto a rail with a 180m fall beneath us sounds.
I went to the hospital in the front of the ambulance as the chap was in serious condition and expected to die. He lived. I was told I saved his life. I rode back to division in the control cab of the underground train, even more fun than it sounds.
I could have been perforating paper tape.
I changed job, in my case joining the police. It meant a drop in wages, longer hours and a certain risk factor.
One Sunday morning some 22 months into the job, I went up the NatWest Tower, then under construction, in a builders' lift with no floor, just rails. It took its time. At the top, the security guard collapsed with a perforated ulcer. Lots and lots of blood. I took him down in the lift - that was about as much fun as holding a comatose fat bloke onto a rail with a 180m fall beneath us sounds.
I went to the hospital in the front of the ambulance as the chap was in serious condition and expected to die. He lived. I was told I saved his life. I rode back to division in the control cab of the underground train, even more fun than it sounds.
I could have been perforating paper tape.
Edited by Derek Smith on Tuesday 20th September 14:21
Both my wife run our own successful business doing what we both enjoy, mine is not that well paid but I have zero stress from it and now that its established I have incredible freedom, however the early years took a huge amount of work, almost to breaking point in my case but if you want something bad enough you will find away, a few years of hardship is worth a lifetime of happiness, now that both our kids are almost grown up we plan to down size, totally de clutter our lives and build a one bedroom place on an area of land that we bought years ago and fill it with home grown food and animals.
So my advice is be brave and take the plunge in whatever you want to pursue but be prepared to work hard for it, nothing worthwhile came from being lazy.
So my advice is be brave and take the plunge in whatever you want to pursue but be prepared to work hard for it, nothing worthwhile came from being lazy.
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