Longest NHS Waiting Time

[sutoka]

Just curious amongst PHr's who has been waiting the longest for NHS treatment. Hearing on the news this evening that many patients in England are waiting 18 months for a first consultant appointment.

Personally I've been waiting 3 years and 9 months for supposedly 'urgent' L5/S1 spinal surgery so I can walk normally, do normal everyday things and be relatively pain free after being rear ended in December 2018.

The longest time I've heard so far was for a lady in Northern Ireland that was on the list for breast reconstruction surgery for 9 years. When she finally got a consultant appointment he just told her what she already knew and said he'd see her again in 3 months. When she ask about timelines, he said "that's not what I do"

Edited by sutoka on Tuesday 9th August 05:45

[Slowboathome]

Personally I'd be ringing the local TV station and asking if they'd be interested in doing an interview with you. That will capture the local NHS's attention.

[FatboyKim]

Sorry to hear that.

My other half was waiting for just over 3 years for an 'urgent' dermatology appointment. A couple of months ago, she'd had enough and demanded a face to face appointment with the GP to express her feelings, and went into great detail about how it's affecting her day to day life, sleeping, getting her down big time, basically everything. It's been horrible for her for the last 3 years.

GP wrote a letter and sent it through to the hospital Trust and within 2 weeks she was seeing a dermatologist, the ball is rolling and the problem has been addressed and is improving with treatment., so could be worth going to your GP and 'letting it all out' in that appointment if you possibly can.

I know it's often the default answer, but have you considered writing to your local MP?

[Nico Adie]

Speaking as someone who was a waiting list manager for many years (with the proviso that I don't necessarily agree with this as a course of action, and that everyone else on the list will have been waiting for an inordinate amount of time, demand versus capacity etc...):

Contact the Complaints/Patient Experience team at whatever Health Board/Trust you're under.
Contact the waiting list team/consultant's secretary to let them know that you're available at short notice should a cancellation occur.
If your hospital has a pre-op assessment department, try and get one done so that they know that you're fit and ready to attend.

[Four Litre]

sutoka said:

Just curious amongst PHr's who has been waiting the longest for NHS treatment. Hearing on the news this evening that many patients in England are waiting 18 months for a first consultant appointment.

Personally I've been waiting 3 years and 9 months for supposedly 'urgent' L5/S1 spinal surgery so I can walk normally, do normal everyday things and be relatively pain free after being rear ended in December 2018.

The longest time I've heard so far was for a lady in Northern Ireland that was on the list for breast reconstruction surgery for 9 years. When she finally got a consultant appointment he just told her what she already knew and said he'd see her again in 3 months. When she ask about timelines, he said "that's not what I do"


Best of luck OP. It could be a blessing in disguise. I've just had an L5/S1 fusion and its certainly not something I would want the NHS to be 'having a go at!'. There's an awful lot to go wrong with any spinal surgery as you probably know and its best to get he best surgeon you possibly can, beg borrow or steal would be my advise!

Edited by sutoka on Tuesday 9th August 05:45

[pavarotti1980]

Four Litre said:

Best of luck OP. It could be a blessing in disguise. I've just had an L5/S1 fusion and its certainly not something I would want the NHS to be 'having a go at!'. There's an awful lot to go wrong with any spinal surgery as you probably know and its best to get he best surgeon you possibly can, beg borrow or steal would be my advise!

The consultant is 99.99% going to be the same one seen in an NHS hospital and that hospital will be commissioned to provide specialist neurosurgery/ortho-neuro so not just someone "having a go". You are just jumping the queue not paying for a better surgeon.

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Tuesday 9th August 11:11

[andyA700]

I am not going to try to take over this thread, and my situation is not nearly as bad as the OP's - however.
I have sleep apnoea and I should have an annual checkup, for myself and for the CPAP machine which is a very complicated piece of kit. My last checkup was March 2019, a bit like driving a car around with an MOT which is three and a half years out of date.
Anyway, three weeks ago the CPAP machine failed at 11:00 at night. In over twenty years, I have only gone one night without using the machine, so this pretty much terrified me.
I somehow got through the night, with my wife waking me when I stopped breathing.
I went to London the next day, to the sleep clinic, only to be told I shouldn't turn up without an appointment - the place was virtually empty, whereas previously it used to be packed full.
I wasn't going anywhere and eventually got to see someone, who fixed me up with a reconditioned machine, but then said my condition wasn't really that serious (stopping breathing 72 times an hour isn't serious), despite the fact that in previous years I was told that my condition was very serious and that I needed to use this every night without fail. The person also said that the machine only needed to be checked once every five years - the one I took to them failed after four years.
Why are there staff shortages in the NHS but no job vacancies to be seen? They don't want to engage with the public. The clinic which I attened was like the Marie Celeste, whereas before it was full of people.

[Teddy Lop]

Probably one of the most common and maybe slightly trivial sounding for those of you in pain or house bound but hear me out.

Just had a private diagnosis for AD that's cost me several grand. Was experiencing some real issues focussing and making careless mistakes at work (I'm an electrician) to the point I was putting others at risk and wondering if I had some sort of early onset dementia (mid 40s). Had no idea where to turn. Someone suggested AD

The GP agreed with me 100% what I was describing sounded like AD, shrugged and said I'll be on the waiting list several years, would I like some anti-depressants.

He referred me to an (?) Outreach guy telephone call who agreed 100% with what I was describing, said I'll be on the waiting list several years, but here have a scrip for some anti-depressants.

At the time I'm in a dilemma of what point my moral obligation to stop working must kick in when I'm also the breadwinner of the household and self employed.

At the moment Im on £150/month private scrips and have been attempting for a week to speak to a GP about switching that to an NHS scrip which seems a big enough ask as it is - are gp surgeries ever planning on getting back to providing a normal service working people can use?

Slow clap for the NHS.

[sparkyhx]

Teddy Lop said:

Probably one of the most common and maybe slightly trivial sounding for those of you in pain or house bound but hear me out.

Just had a private diagnosis for AD that's cost me several grand. Was experiencing some real issues focussing and making careless mistakes at work (I'm an electrician) to the point I was putting others at risk and wondering if I had some sort of early onset dementia (mid 40s). Had no idea where to turn. Someone suggested AD

The GP agreed with me 100% what I was describing sounded like AD, shrugged and said I'll be on the waiting list several years, would I like some anti-depressants.

He referred me to an (?) Outreach guy telephone call who agreed 100% with what I was describing, said I'll be on the waiting list several years, but here have a scrip for some anti-depressants.

At the time I'm in a dilemma of what point my moral obligation to stop working must kick in when I'm also the breadwinner of the household and self employed.

At the moment Im on £150/month private scrips and have been attempting for a week to speak to a GP about switching that to an NHS scrip which seems a big enough ask as it is - are gp surgeries ever planning on getting back to providing a normal service working people can use?

Slow clap for the NHS.

whats AD?
....................................................and the consultant who diagnosed you should write to your GP and agree shared care.......then you are in the NHS for your prescriptions

[sutoka]

Sad reality of the NHS, I have now been waiting 5 years for treatment, not surgery just treatment for my L5-S1 herniated disc.

[Jon39]

I am so sorry to read about the difficulties described above.
After all that we have heard about this subject, the NHS still insist the maximum waiting time is 18 weeks.

......................................................................................................................



......................................................................................................................

Wonder how many administrators the NHS employ, spending all their time recording, 'adjusting' and reporting those figures?

As is the case with GP surgeries, I think there seems to be a wide variation in the service throughout the country.
I heard a radio caller living in Glasgow, say she had been waiting 3 years for a cataract operation.
I went to an optician and it was decided that I would have that operation. I was told the NHS wait would be 3 months, but if I wanted it more quickly, a hospital about 30 miles away could help. I said that the cateract (in only one eye) had stabilised and had been present for 30 years, so I am not bothered about a 3 months wait. The operation took about 15 minutes, and was indeed carried out within 3 months after seeing the optician.


I have another observation. Just a small point, but it does reveal inefficiency and waste;

NHS.
1. Appointment to see GP.
2. Appointment to see specialist (who says an X-ray is needed).
3. Appointment to have X-ray.
4. Appointment to see specialist (who then looks at X-ray).

How many people are involved in all that ? It would include people making appointments, sending letters, replacing the printer ink and so it goes on. Probably some managers to manage the senior administrators, who then oversee the administrators. Finally there is the postman who delivers all those appointment letters.


PRIVATE HOSPITAL.
1. Appointment to see consultant, walk to Imaging Department, return to consultant (who can immediately see the X-ray images).

2.}
3.} > not required.
4.}

Only needed two people. Patients book that single appointment themselves, online.


Is giving more money, really the way to resolve these types of old fashioned inefficiency?

Edited by Jon39 on Friday 1st December 17:07

[carinatauk]

I know it's off key but I had to wait >3 years for a gall bladder op [stones]. I was in agony but in the end my boss wrote to my MP and got it sorted.

This was 25 years ago. So no surprises that hasn't improved

[Bill]

Jon39 said:

PRIVATE HOSPITAL.
1. Appointment to see consultant, walk to Imaging Department, return to consultant (who can immediately see the X-ray images).

2.}
3.} > not required.
4.}

There isn't a country in the world that allows unfettered access to surgeons never mind consultants unless you're paying. Where's the efficiency in the surgeon triaging every single person who wants to see them?

[gangzoom]

Jon39 said:

Is giving more money, really the way to resolve these types of old fashioned inefficiency?

Transformation is hard, culture eats stragety for breakfast, add in a need to maintain business continuity regardless of how radical change process are planned, and a work force that's spent the last 12 months in open conflict with those that have ultimate power levers, the challenges ahead are almost unimaginable to plan for let alone operationalise. However where challenges exist so do many opportunities, there is alot of work that's needs to be done, the money is probably the simplest bit to 'solve'.

[Slow.Patrol]

I understand that the waiting list is determined from when you see the consultant, however I think that the date should be from when you first see a GP. I waited three and a half years for knee surgery, although covid didn't help.

Unfortunately the NHS have something called "Pathway" and for a replacement knee, it is as follows:

1. See GP
2. Have x-ray (wait six weeks for an appointment)
3. Have painkillers
4. See physiotherapist (wait at least six weeks of an appointment)
5. See consultant (wait for two months for an appointment,)
6. Have MRI (two month wait)
7. Have steroid injection into joint (two month wait)
8. Consultant puts you on the waiting list

The above procedure takes months, even years, but the waiting list time starts from number 8.

The consultant who did my knee surgery earlier this year took an x-ray of the other one and said it is also bone on bone and wrote to my GP to suggest I went on the list. But guess what, my GP says I have to start with an x-ray and go through the whole procedure.

The other annoying thing was that no one at my GP surgery had read the letter sent by the consultant. It wasn't until I chased the surgery after three weeks that action was taken.

One think I have learnt is that the squeaky gate gets the most oil. And do not for one minute think the different departments communicate. Chase at every opportunity.

[anonymous-user]

carinatauk said:

I know it's off key but I had to wait >3 years for a gall bladder op [stones]. I was in agony but in the end my boss wrote to my MP and got it sorted.

This was 25 years ago. So no surprises that hasn't improved

3 years?! Mine was 6 months and that was bad enough! My last attack before my op, they had to stick 11 shots of morphine in me as I had to wait 3.5 hours in the back of the ambulance waiting for a bed space.

[The_Doc]

Slow.Patrol said:

I understand that the waiting list is determined from when you see the consultant, however I think that the date should be from when you first see a GP. I waited three and a half years for knee surgery, although covid didn't help.

Unfortunately the NHS have something called "Pathway" and for a replacement knee, it is as follows:

1. See GP
2. Have x-ray (wait six weeks for an appointment)
3. Have painkillers
4. See physiotherapist (wait at least six weeks of an appointment)
5. See consultant (wait for two months for an appointment,)
6. Have MRI (two month wait)
7. Have steroid injection into joint (two month wait)
8. Consultant puts you on the waiting list

The above procedure takes months, even years, but the waiting list time starts from number 8.

The consultant who did my knee surgery earlier this year took an x-ray of the other one and said it is also bone on bone and wrote to my GP to suggest I went on the list. But guess what, my GP says I have to start with an x-ray and go through the whole procedure.

The other annoying thing was that no one at my GP surgery had read the letter sent by the consultant. It wasn't until I chased the surgery after three weeks that action was taken.

One think I have learnt is that the squeaky gate gets the most oil. And do not for one minute think the different departments communicate. Chase at every opportunity.

The waiting time or RTT starts when the GP refers you on, not when the consultant (me) puts you on the list for surgery. This is the 18 weeks promise.
I don't generally give the squeaky gate more oil, because my lovely stoic patients (all over 65) get pushed down the list in this nightmare situation.
As primary care (GPs) have fallen apart, more steps are needed to screen the work that gets sent to a consultant. It used to be easier and GPs were good gatekeepers. There are not enough of me to see unscreened work.
Physios are now the intermediary stage and screen and treat well. Very many people now do the job that used to be done by a 1990s GP.
Money follows patient in the old system, so if you were referred for one knee, the other knee needed a new referral and new virtual suitcase of cash to treat you. This has changed now with Integrated Care Boards, who basically fund their own work, so no virtual suitcases of money.
Underfunding and undertraining and no attempt to retain senior staff has made every EVERY step in this worse.
Welcome to my world. I am paid 26% less than I was a decade ago, once you do the maths.

It ain't right

[Louis Balfour]

The wife of a chap who works for us had surgery a couple of weeks ago for a macular hole (I think). She was apparently told to watch out for signs of retina detachment, which is a serious problem that would require emergency surgery.

She already has virtually no vision in the other eye, so her one remaining eye is important to her.

In due course, her retina detached and her husband rushed her to the hospital. The emergency surgery took a week to arrange. A week!

I cannot imagine what the poor woman must have been going through.

[Bill]

Slow.Patrol said:

1. See GP
2. Have x-ray (wait six weeks for an appointment)
3. Have painkillers
4. See physiotherapist (wait at least six weeks of an appointment)
5. See consultant (wait for two months for an appointment,)
6. Have MRI (two month wait)
7. Have steroid injection into joint (two month wait)
8. Consultant puts you on the waiting list

In addition to the Doc's comments. Stages 1-3 and often 7 run concurrently while waiting for 4 which often results in no need for 5.

Also you may well not see a doctor at all until your pre-op appointment. Physios, paramedics and nurses are doing a lot of GP work and physios are working in orthopaedic clinics.

[The_Doc]

Jon39 said:

I have another observation. Just a small point, but it does reveal inefficiency and waste;

NHS.
1. Appointment to see GP.
2. Appointment to see specialist (who says an X-ray is needed).
3. Appointment to have X-ray.
4. Appointment to see specialist (who then looks at X-ray).

1. Composite primary healthcare workforce (at GP practice) no longer has time, skills/training, experience to know when or which xrays to order. He she also doesn't know how to interpret the Xray. They also often mistakenly order an expensive and time-consuming MRI, which is wasteful. We often take away this MRI requesting option from them at an organisational level.

2. Other steps happen

3. Consultant sees patient and orders useful Xrays in the NHS, patient walks 3 mins to have it and 15 mins later they and I see the pictures and I interpret and make management plan. The interpretation requires 10 yrs of extra specialist experience. ( I ignore the MRI scan .)

Is how it is.

I have utmost respect for all people working in GP practices, be they doctors or whatever. It's a very difficult job these days.

Private hospital.
1. Consultant wants to see infinite patients because he's on commission (USA model)
2. Insurance company and morality wants to stop this so gatekeeping methods happen.
3. Private hospital is run for profit and therefore, like all businesses, sequentially cuts out wasteful steps.
Or they go bust.