Knackered knee
Discussion
A few years back i decided to do a couch to 5k.
I'm 6ft5 and 112kgs.
I got a about 4 weeks in and then had a bit of a break, probably 3wks, then went out and did the next "step" and it absolutely knackered my knee. Could barely walk up stairs. Pain at the top of my kneecap just to the outside and it ached a lot when I was sat for a while.
I laid off excersise but it took a long time before I'd say it was back to normal. I'd say 3 months.
Then all was well with the world.
Theres no getting away from the fact I'm inactive and a bit of a chonk. A knackered knee a few weeks in put me off running - i just dont think im designed for it...
Now, rather inexplicably, it's knackered again. Seems worse than before. Exactly the same place/symptoms. The only thing I can think of is running around after my niece but that was a few weeks back. I feel like a 70YO but I'm only 31. Stairs are a struggle. Getting out of a seat is a struggle. Getting on and off the floor seems almost impossible.
The only thing I can think that did it was running after my niece a few weeks back when we went to the zoo....
I like cycling and swimming. All the pools in my vicinity are owned by one health group and they make it virtually impossible to book unless you're a member. Think I need to get out on my bike a bit more..
I'm 6ft5 and 112kgs.
I got a about 4 weeks in and then had a bit of a break, probably 3wks, then went out and did the next "step" and it absolutely knackered my knee. Could barely walk up stairs. Pain at the top of my kneecap just to the outside and it ached a lot when I was sat for a while.
I laid off excersise but it took a long time before I'd say it was back to normal. I'd say 3 months.
Then all was well with the world.
Theres no getting away from the fact I'm inactive and a bit of a chonk. A knackered knee a few weeks in put me off running - i just dont think im designed for it...
Now, rather inexplicably, it's knackered again. Seems worse than before. Exactly the same place/symptoms. The only thing I can think of is running around after my niece but that was a few weeks back. I feel like a 70YO but I'm only 31. Stairs are a struggle. Getting out of a seat is a struggle. Getting on and off the floor seems almost impossible.
The only thing I can think that did it was running after my niece a few weeks back when we went to the zoo....
I like cycling and swimming. All the pools in my vicinity are owned by one health group and they make it virtually impossible to book unless you're a member. Think I need to get out on my bike a bit more..
Edited by Ambleton on Thursday 23 June 11:20
See a physio.
Thing about knees is they're complicated and trade off mobility for stability which is which they get injured more frequently.
Knees are also stabilised by all the other muscles and tendons around them, some of which you won't necessarily assume are connected (excuse the pun).
If you've literally gone from couch to 5k then you'll be tight all over, including your IT Band and your gleutus medius will be weak/underdeveloped. Both of which and in particular for a big lad like you, could lead to pain on the outside top of your knee. It'll hurt when you walk down stairs as well I should think.
That chain stabilises the sideways flex/rotation of your knee, which during sedentary everyday is fine, but when you suddenly start chucking 112kg at it in anger and at funny angles (assuming you don't have perfect running technique) your withered muscles aren't going to be strong enough to cope.
Quick intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6guW0_zGN6M
But never listen to an untrained stranger like me on the internet, you need to go and see a physio.
Thing about knees is they're complicated and trade off mobility for stability which is which they get injured more frequently.
Knees are also stabilised by all the other muscles and tendons around them, some of which you won't necessarily assume are connected (excuse the pun).
If you've literally gone from couch to 5k then you'll be tight all over, including your IT Band and your gleutus medius will be weak/underdeveloped. Both of which and in particular for a big lad like you, could lead to pain on the outside top of your knee. It'll hurt when you walk down stairs as well I should think.
That chain stabilises the sideways flex/rotation of your knee, which during sedentary everyday is fine, but when you suddenly start chucking 112kg at it in anger and at funny angles (assuming you don't have perfect running technique) your withered muscles aren't going to be strong enough to cope.
Quick intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6guW0_zGN6M
But never listen to an untrained stranger like me on the internet, you need to go and see a physio.
Booked a physio appointment. They "just" had a cancellation so they managed to squeeze me in for this evening. Initial session is £60.
Assume it'll be at least 3-5 sessions, but even if it's 10 sessions then it's worth it. Heck if they could make it all dissapear over night I'd hand over the cash right now!
Assume it'll be at least 3-5 sessions, but even if it's 10 sessions then it's worth it. Heck if they could make it all dissapear over night I'd hand over the cash right now!
I think that was probably the best £60 I've ever spent.
After a lot of prodding, poking, and man handling...
She said I have patella tendinitis, caused by an imbalance in my upper leg muscles.
Can't remember exactly which ones are stronger and weaker but it's essentially pulling my tendons out of line. Anyway, because one of them is running in overdrive, trying to make good on the weaker ones, it had also started to go into spasm, hence making the whole scenario worse and worse over the past week or so even though I haven't been doing much.
After a deeply unpleasant deep tissue massage (its mind boggling how strong her hands where) everything feels A LOT better. It'll obviously take some time, but I'm amazed at the difference already. I laughed pretty much all the way home in the car.
Anyway, she's given me a whole bunch of stretches to do a few times a day just to loosen things up a bit and relieve some of the tightness. Then next week I'm going back and she will assess how I'm getting on and may start to think about excersises to strengthen up the weaker parts and start to correct the imbalance in my leg.
After a lot of prodding, poking, and man handling...
She said I have patella tendinitis, caused by an imbalance in my upper leg muscles.
Can't remember exactly which ones are stronger and weaker but it's essentially pulling my tendons out of line. Anyway, because one of them is running in overdrive, trying to make good on the weaker ones, it had also started to go into spasm, hence making the whole scenario worse and worse over the past week or so even though I haven't been doing much.
After a deeply unpleasant deep tissue massage (its mind boggling how strong her hands where) everything feels A LOT better. It'll obviously take some time, but I'm amazed at the difference already. I laughed pretty much all the way home in the car.
Anyway, she's given me a whole bunch of stretches to do a few times a day just to loosen things up a bit and relieve some of the tightness. Then next week I'm going back and she will assess how I'm getting on and may start to think about excersises to strengthen up the weaker parts and start to correct the imbalance in my leg.
I've always had my doubts and opinions about physios that's they're basically overpaid massage therapists pretending to heal people....
I'm a convert. What a wealth of knowledge they have. Feel stupid now!
The lady I saw today was excellent and will be happily recommending her to friends and colleagues who have done themselves a mischief.
Just need to make sure I do my homework now and make sure my legs free up a bit for the session next week.
I still can't quite believe what was achieved in my 1 hr session with someone who knows what they're talking about...
I'm a convert. What a wealth of knowledge they have. Feel stupid now!
The lady I saw today was excellent and will be happily recommending her to friends and colleagues who have done themselves a mischief.
Just need to make sure I do my homework now and make sure my legs free up a bit for the session next week.
I still can't quite believe what was achieved in my 1 hr session with someone who knows what they're talking about...
Really pleased you have a result!
(after 4 docs trips, 1 self referral to specialist who was doing groovy stuff with ky jelly and ultrasonic tools, multiple boxes of painkillers, no result - a physio sorted it - one muscle over tight and pulling the others out of line, exactly same as yours, fixed in one trip, I just need to do the stretches and exercises given)
(after 4 docs trips, 1 self referral to specialist who was doing groovy stuff with ky jelly and ultrasonic tools, multiple boxes of painkillers, no result - a physio sorted it - one muscle over tight and pulling the others out of line, exactly same as yours, fixed in one trip, I just need to do the stretches and exercises given)
Glad you've got it sorted. I've had similar issues over the years and in fact just been to see my physio yesterday, after 2 weeks of discomfort I was back on the badminton court last night. Her knowledge is incredible and in the past her letter to my GP convinced him to do an MRI which led to some keyhole work to get it sorted.
I'm in the midlands, your pricing may vary, but at £38 for 30 minutes its an absolute no-brainer!!
I'm in the midlands, your pricing may vary, but at £38 for 30 minutes its an absolute no-brainer!!
I‘m a skinny(5‘9“ and 68kg), fairly fit, middle-aged man presently suffering with a sore knee.
I‘ve done a fair amount of running in my life and even when I was only 15 years old I could get my knee into some bother by letting my muscles get out of balance. As mentioned above you need balanced leg muscles for healthy knees. And it is utterly amazing just how much muscles will support really dodgy knees.
When I sort it out, the pain completely disappears.
Just letting you know that your situation isn’t unique. What am I doing about my sore knee? The plan is to build up the muscles with weight training… I cycle also and it really isn’t helping… on my left leg my vastus mediales (the teardrop shaped muscle on the inside of your knee) is visibly smaller than on my right leg, and guess which knee hurts? Because it hurts I load my right leg more in my daily life… climbing and descending stairs for example… exacerbating the problem.
I‘ve done a fair amount of running in my life and even when I was only 15 years old I could get my knee into some bother by letting my muscles get out of balance. As mentioned above you need balanced leg muscles for healthy knees. And it is utterly amazing just how much muscles will support really dodgy knees.
When I sort it out, the pain completely disappears.
Just letting you know that your situation isn’t unique. What am I doing about my sore knee? The plan is to build up the muscles with weight training… I cycle also and it really isn’t helping… on my left leg my vastus mediales (the teardrop shaped muscle on the inside of your knee) is visibly smaller than on my right leg, and guess which knee hurts? Because it hurts I load my right leg more in my daily life… climbing and descending stairs for example… exacerbating the problem.
Thanks all - it's a long way from "fixed" but certainly it's really good to know
A- what's inflamed causing the pain
B- what caused it to be inflamed in the first place.
This morning she sent me some videos of all the stretches I should be doing, with times and reps, which is really helpful as I'd forgotten one of them already...
She's breaking it down into two different areas to focus on.
First and foremost is to get it back to "normal", release some of the tightness and reduce the inflammation and make it at least comfortable again.
Second, which will be for future sessions, look at excersises and ongoing/long term actions that are required to ensure my knee isn't pulled out of shape again by imbalanced muscles.
A- what's inflamed causing the pain
B- what caused it to be inflamed in the first place.
This morning she sent me some videos of all the stretches I should be doing, with times and reps, which is really helpful as I'd forgotten one of them already...
She's breaking it down into two different areas to focus on.
First and foremost is to get it back to "normal", release some of the tightness and reduce the inflammation and make it at least comfortable again.
Second, which will be for future sessions, look at excersises and ongoing/long term actions that are required to ensure my knee isn't pulled out of shape again by imbalanced muscles.
Had a fair bit of driving to do over the weekend. Friday 2.5hrs to my parents, Saturday 2x 1.5hrs return to a gig, Sunday 2.5hrs home.
Friday evening was very painful most of the way to my folks despite a couple of ibuprofen.
On Saturday I pre empted with a couple of ibuprofen but I only managed about half way there before I had to dive into a services and stretch it out. Was in tears.
Dont know what it is about the seated position in a car. Must be something to do with the angles and causing my muscle to go into spasm. My office chair, dining chair and sofa is fine, but cars.... no chance. (It's a big comfy car too - 2012 volvo S80)
I swapped driving with my wife and managed to find a position that was tolerable (although still a bit painful).
When we arrived at the location of the gig (town) i went straight to the chemist to get the strongest stuff they were allowed to give me over the counter.(ibuprofen and codiene).
After that I couldn't feel anything. My wife did the rest of the driving. I've not had any more painkillers since Saturday evening. I've been doing my stretches and it does seem to be easing up but still getting pain going up/down stairs or moving from standing-seated position (or seated-standing).
I wfh so the long car stints are reserved for weekends only. Although this coming weekend I don't have to go anywhere (first weekend in months that's free).
Friday evening was very painful most of the way to my folks despite a couple of ibuprofen.
On Saturday I pre empted with a couple of ibuprofen but I only managed about half way there before I had to dive into a services and stretch it out. Was in tears.
Dont know what it is about the seated position in a car. Must be something to do with the angles and causing my muscle to go into spasm. My office chair, dining chair and sofa is fine, but cars.... no chance. (It's a big comfy car too - 2012 volvo S80)
I swapped driving with my wife and managed to find a position that was tolerable (although still a bit painful).
When we arrived at the location of the gig (town) i went straight to the chemist to get the strongest stuff they were allowed to give me over the counter.(ibuprofen and codiene).
After that I couldn't feel anything. My wife did the rest of the driving. I've not had any more painkillers since Saturday evening. I've been doing my stretches and it does seem to be easing up but still getting pain going up/down stairs or moving from standing-seated position (or seated-standing).
I wfh so the long car stints are reserved for weekends only. Although this coming weekend I don't have to go anywhere (first weekend in months that's free).
The physio said swimming was great because it's a whole body muscular workout without actually putting any real stress on your body of "having to support itself".
So for the first time in maybe 12 years I went for a "proper" swim. By that I mean swimming proper lengths pretty much continuously at a reasonablr pace rather than just floating/splashing/relaxing as you would in a hotel/spa pool.
It dawned on me I'm nowhere near as fit as I used to be. Swimming 4-5k wasn't uncommon a few times a week as a teenager and adolescent but I quite enjoyed it nonetheless. My shoulders, calves and chest are ruined today
I'll try to keep it up at least once a week as I can't get any worse!
Anyways, afterwards I did my routine of stretches at home and for the first time I can remember I managed to touch my toes.
So for the first time in maybe 12 years I went for a "proper" swim. By that I mean swimming proper lengths pretty much continuously at a reasonablr pace rather than just floating/splashing/relaxing as you would in a hotel/spa pool.
It dawned on me I'm nowhere near as fit as I used to be. Swimming 4-5k wasn't uncommon a few times a week as a teenager and adolescent but I quite enjoyed it nonetheless. My shoulders, calves and chest are ruined today
I'll try to keep it up at least once a week as I can't get any worse!
Anyways, afterwards I did my routine of stretches at home and for the first time I can remember I managed to touch my toes.
I too have a knackered knee in my 30's (36), turns out I have 'early onset arthritis' in my right knee, not helped by the fact that my right thigh muscle is smaller/slower to respond than my left. Mine was most likely caused by an injury I had in my teens, and my knee would often be the first thing to 'go' during hard exercise, but as I'm getting older the level of exercise need to cause an issue is getting smaller.
I've been advised to exercise, without putting strain on my legs, which is an interesting concept....
I've been advised to exercise, without putting strain on my legs, which is an interesting concept....
skinnyman said:
I've been advised to exercise, without putting strain on my legs, which is an interesting concept....
The options include swimming (but avoid breaststroke) and cycling (albeit, a ‘bike fit’ might be invaluable to prevent knee issues).And if you swim – front crawl of backstroke – fins will help strengthen the leg muscles. Good for mitigating knee pain.
Yeah, I was told to avoid any impact sports for a while, so anything with kicking, running or jumping as badly loaded knee like mine will basically just "check out".
Cross trainer might be OK as it's a really fluid motion that doesn't go to any extreme angle.
If you do have leg muscle imbalance like me then a gentle line dancing online class might be beneficial as that gently uses all your leg muscles.
Cross trainer might be OK as it's a really fluid motion that doesn't go to any extreme angle.
If you do have leg muscle imbalance like me then a gentle line dancing online class might be beneficial as that gently uses all your leg muscles.
I've joined the club! I'm an active runner daily 4 mile jog 5 days a week and then a few HIIT including squats. Now I noticed some discomfort coming on immediately behind the knee when jogging and more so when doing squats. Bending my knee fully is where the discomfort is most. Going down stairs is not pleasant either, going up is OK.
It's a weird sensation because it doesn't feel like it's the actually 'knee' but some area in the space behind it. I have no idea how I've actually caused it either as I'm quite disciplined on warming up before exercise.
When I've had hamstring pulls etc in the past I've seen a deep tissue masseuse who has usually resolved the problem along with resting for a few weeks. Have read up on what it could be (cruciate ligament strain?) it does not recommend massage?
Any clues what it is and what's best to get sorted?
It's a weird sensation because it doesn't feel like it's the actually 'knee' but some area in the space behind it. I have no idea how I've actually caused it either as I'm quite disciplined on warming up before exercise.
When I've had hamstring pulls etc in the past I've seen a deep tissue masseuse who has usually resolved the problem along with resting for a few weeks. Have read up on what it could be (cruciate ligament strain?) it does not recommend massage?
Any clues what it is and what's best to get sorted?
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