Is there danger in heart rate being above 'Maximum'?

[Mr Scruff]

I'm pretty active and have been for a few years; I tend to work out (cardio) 5 times per week and do so consistently.

As I approach my mid 40s obviously my calculated max heart rate comes down, however my exercise intensity has remained the same as has my max hear rate.

For example, on a (mtb) ride last night it peaked at about 188 after an intense climb, though dropped very quickly.

Is there any danger with this? Seems fine to me, and feel fine but Garmin watch was not impressed!

[Ouroboros]

no.

if you reach max heart rate bending over to pick up a pen then yes.

But best to get a health check done. i'm similar age, not as fit but hit max often, have for never 20 years doing cardio.

Edited by Ouroboros on Tuesday 17th May 09:27

[Emeye]

Your body should let you know if something is wrong it.

Worth getting yourself checked out though, especially your cholesterol.

[oddman]

Mr Scruff said:

As I approach my mid 40s obviously my calculated max heart rate comes down, however my exercise intensity has remained the same as has my max hear rate.

220 - Age as a measure of max HR is a good rule of thumb but isn't accurate for everybody. Rapid recovery from the effort is a good sign. If you've got access to private medical screening then it would be a good idea to take advantage of it. There is no additional health benefit of hitting your max and it is potentially risky as we get older

You can reprogram the Garmin with your new maximum HR (google setting HR zones) and it will adjust your training zones accordingly. These themselves are based on algorithms so not entirely reliable. If you want to put in the zones manually....

Aerobic threshold blue/green z2/3 - below which you can talk comfortably, largely fat burning and no lactate accumulation. Well conditioned athletes can stay in this zone for hours. This is quite hard to estimate without lactate measurement equipment. Estimated as 60% of Max HR

Anaerobic threshold green/orange z 3/4 - the point at which lactate begins to accumulate and used as a source of fuel. Unable to talk, comfortably uncomfortable. Sustainable for less than an hour (basis for FTP or lactate threshold tests). This is fairly easy to test (although the test isn't easy) with an 20 minute maximal sustainable effort running or biking. Your LT HR will be the average of the last 5 minutes and will be the HR for orange/red z3/4

VO2 Max - maximal oxygen uptake - in and around max HR - can be measured in a lab and reasonably accurately assessed from a ramp test.

Knowing these heart rate values is of value if you are doing a structured training program. Most coaches advocate intervals in z4 and 5 to build up VO2 max and raise FTP and avoiding z3 as, in theory, Z3 is hard enough to fatigue you but not enough stress to develop or sustain high aerobic function. Knowing where z2/3 threshold is useful as it keeps discipline on easy runs/rides - most of us creep into z3.

[yellowjack]

I know the "220 - age" thing isn't really working for me. That gives me a Max Heart Rate of 168

I'm 52 years old and have always been active. Sport for me these days is mostly road cycling, some "byway bashing" gravel cycling, with a splash of MTBing and running occasionally.

Not sure what my maximums are without digging deep into Strava data, but I note my average heart rate for all activities where I remember to wear my HRM strap.

Road cycling = average sits between 120 bpm and 135 bpm. Seldom gets over 140 bpm (average over a session)

MTBing = average sits between 141 bpm and 149 bpm. No recent activities (even racing) show me exceeding 150 bpm (average over a session)

Running = average sits between 149 bpm and 159 bpm. No session averages over 160 bpm but peaks definitely run close to my Max HR. My Garmin watch/Strava show me spending LOTS of time, sometimes upwards of 90% of a run, in Z4. Which can't be right. Not over 10 km, at the end of which I'm recovering in a few minutes and I've "got a bit of a dab on".

Example of HR data for a 10k run (plod) here...

...you can see my pace is slow, yet my HR is sky-high almost the entire activity.

Getting an accurate Max HR isn't on the cards really. I'm not 'an athlete' and not really training for anything specific. I just want to stay in reasonable physical shape and healthy for as long as I can so I get out there and enjoy myself.

I eat a reasonably healthy diet. I barely drink alcohol at all, in terms of measuring it by weekly units, although I like a beer or a cider now and then with a meal or a film. I've never smoked. My big vice, I suppose, is caffeine. I'm a coffee and cola fiend, on the quiet. Which may have an effect on HR.

The thing with my running, and my HR being so close to Max all the time, and my watch telling me I'm in Z4/Z5? I don't really worry about that because my body is telling me other things. I'll be running along, singing along with my iPod, enjoying the evening sun on the prom between the piers, sweating a bit but smiling at other runners. Then I upload my run data and the tech is telling me I should have been hanging out. It would be nice to adjust my training Zones to match the way I feel under various effort levels, but it's hardly top of my list of things to do.

In short? If you are feeling OK, OP, then listen to your body and don't worry too much about an arbitrary number which may not "suit you" anyway.

[JapanRed]

In my experience it’s not easy to hit max HR on a bike, although you say it was after an intense climb which is fair enough. Average HR’s are always lower on bikes than running in my experience. Not sure I’ve ever hit max on a bike but not unusual when running (racing) 5 and 10k’s.

[Chris Stott]

220-age is rubbish… individual max HR can vary from thus by as much as 20%. Your max HR will be higher than 168.

You’re not going to see averages above 80% of max HR on a bike unless you’re doing something like time trialing, and even then it’s almost impossible to sustain efforts on the road due to elevation changes and junctions/traffic etc. The fitter you are the quicker your HR recovers and the harder it is to sustain a high HR.

I’m 55 and my max is 192. I’ve only seen that high 4 times across well over 400 static bike rides over the the last 2 years... Once on a max HR test, once whilst chasing a PB, and twice whilst doing FTP tests.

Typically, even on very hard 45/60 min efforts, i only see mid 170’s peak, with averages over an hour (inc. 10 min warm up) around 75% of max. Yesterday I did 45mins at an average of 81% (which on output was close to my current physical limit).

[oddman]

yellowjack said:

Data purporting to show z4 effort on 85minute slow run

Your zones are wrong.

I suspect your true Max HR for running is much higher and what you posted is z3 tops

If you look at your fitness graphs on Strava or your recovery times from your device they'll be seriously out of whack because they are massively overestimating your training stimulus

If you care about this you can do a ramp test (even if you don't have an indoor trainer a long hill slowly building to an unsustainable max effort) and find your HR max. "See a physician before trying this at home" etc.

JapanRed said:

In my experience it’s not easy to hit max HR on a bike, although you say it was after an intense climb which is fair enough. Average HR’s are always lower on bikes than running in my experience. Not sure I’ve ever hit max on a bike but not unusual when running (racing) 5 and 10k’s.

Max HR on a bike is lower because you're not weight bearing so you will hit a max but you won't hit your running max. That said with indoor trainers and the nature of getting it all out on a bike, I think many, particularly older, people are still biomechanically able to do a greater max on a bike when their legs just can't do it running (certainly on the flat)

People who are super fussy have different zones for running and biking.

Weather changes it as well my zones will go up 5-10bpm if it's hot
Also hangover, recent eating, caffeine, stress all increase heart rate even when exercising

I enjoy geeking over physiological measures but perceived exertion is often the most reliable and difficult to ignore measure.

Edited by oddman on Tuesday 17th May 13:31

[yellowjack]

oddman said:

yellowjack said:

Data purporting to show z4 effort on 85minute slow run

Your zones are wrong.

I suspect your true Max HR for running is much higher and what you posted is z3 tops

If you look at your fitness graphs on Strava or your recovery times from your device they'll be seriously out of whack because they are massively overestimating your training stimulus

If you care about this you can do a ramp test (even if you don't have an indoor trainer a long hill slowly building to an unsustainable max effort) and find your HR max. "See a physician before trying this at home" etc.

i agree absolutely. The example was just to show the OP my experience. When compared with "how it felt" on that run, the "purports to be 90% Z4" tells a completely different story. Me? I'm not that bothered about being at the wrong Max HR. As I said, I'm out there to enjoy myself on my bikes and on runs. Occasionally I'll race my MTB but that's a race in name only. I'm under no illusions that I'm going to win anything, or even place in the top 25%. I simply don't do enough targeted training to make that happen. It was more about sharing experience of that broad-brush "220bpm - age" formula not really being a good "fit" for everyone.

[SlimJim16v]

I use this, from wiki.

[Chris Stott]

I don’t understand why anyone would buy a heart rate monitor, take time to look at their zones and data, and then 1) not do the research to understand how to use it, and 2) not set an accurate (or at least semi accurate) maximum heart rate.

You may as well not bother having one.

[mcelliott]

Totally overthinking, rest when you feel st, full beans when you feel good, even without a heart rate monitor I know if I'm at my max.

[bmwmike]

Mr Scruff said:

I'm pretty active and have been for a few years; I tend to work out (cardio) 5 times per week and do so consistently.

As I approach my mid 40s obviously my calculated max heart rate comes down, however my exercise intensity has remained the same as has my max hear rate.

For example, on a (mtb) ride last night it peaked at about 188 after an intense climb, though dropped very quickly.

Is there any danger with this? Seems fine to me, and feel fine but Garmin watch was not impressed!

Totally safe.
About to hit 47 and similar - bit overweight but can hit 185 HR regularly on my MTB too and it feels great. Sometimes on a sustained max workout such as a 3km slight incline near me where i try to keep at a constant speed and HR around 165, i get an ache in my neck on the left side and I then back off and it goes. Never had that on a really steep climb which tends to be shorter duration and higher peak. Resting HR is around 50 and sometimes low 30's. Feels great to get out on the MTB!!!! Definitely does more good than harm except perhaps if you make contact with a tree or the ground too often

[J4CKO]

Need to be careful of your manifold or something.