So, I went to Turkey for Dental Work
Discussion
I know some on here are interested in exploring ‘overseas’ dental work so I thought I’d give you my experience so far. A previous PHer experience is also here https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Disclaimer: I’m not on a bung from the place in Turkey so I’m not advertising it unless individuals want to know but I would ask anyone thinking of it to do their own due diligence on what and where treatment is available, ideally with a recommendation(s) from someone who has been and cross-reference with any UK private treatment plan has been offered.
Background
I’m a 57yr average joe and have tried to look after my teeth under the NHS system. Sadly, I didn’t have a good start because NHS dentists in the 70s-80s were funded differently to the way they are now. They basically had free rein and got paid per ‘item’ rather than a single visit etc. Needless to say, I (and several others my age) all received fillings we didn’t need giving most dentists a very comfortable lifestyle. Indeed, I have a story one dentist worked on three patients at the same time where the air was thick with amalgam dust! If only British Leyland had the same productivity!
At 14 one of my main front teeth was slightly shorter than the other so the dentist recognising my Mum had a few quid offered up his ‘on the side’ private treatment to Crown all four front teeth to balance things up. Given that my Mum and Dad both born in the 20s and having false teeth for as long as I can remember their knowledge was not well informed so agreed to the work.
They looked great! I went through life with the Crowns, some gum recession took its toll and I think I’m now on the third set. They are now of an age where ideally, they would look better if replaced given one (or maybe two) have had root canals and one broke requiring a ‘post’ to refit it.
Moving on, 15yrs ago, I ended up having a large upper Molar removed and the gap closed by a bridge (NHS). This lasted for several years before coming loose and it was replaced with another but this time a 4-tooth bridge connecting also to my back-wisdom tooth. Whilst this was secure when I went for a private consultation (UK) in 2019 I was told it had failed so would likely cause some trouble in the future. Over time the odd tooth has broken in both upper and lower jaw and either refilled or where it couldn’t a Crown fixed on.
I have all my wisdom teeth and naturally in the lower set, cramming has pushed my front teeth together with the right canine being pushed out giving an ‘over-bite’.
Around that time Mrs Shanks suggested I get my teeth ‘sorted’. They were in general OK and being ‘fixed on failure’ by my trusted dentist. I’d floated the idea of new Crowns but he suggested not to start ‘lifting stones for danger of what you might find underneath’ and that they weren’t at the point NHS would fund it.
So far.
Disclaimer: I’m not on a bung from the place in Turkey so I’m not advertising it unless individuals want to know but I would ask anyone thinking of it to do their own due diligence on what and where treatment is available, ideally with a recommendation(s) from someone who has been and cross-reference with any UK private treatment plan has been offered.
Background
I’m a 57yr average joe and have tried to look after my teeth under the NHS system. Sadly, I didn’t have a good start because NHS dentists in the 70s-80s were funded differently to the way they are now. They basically had free rein and got paid per ‘item’ rather than a single visit etc. Needless to say, I (and several others my age) all received fillings we didn’t need giving most dentists a very comfortable lifestyle. Indeed, I have a story one dentist worked on three patients at the same time where the air was thick with amalgam dust! If only British Leyland had the same productivity!
At 14 one of my main front teeth was slightly shorter than the other so the dentist recognising my Mum had a few quid offered up his ‘on the side’ private treatment to Crown all four front teeth to balance things up. Given that my Mum and Dad both born in the 20s and having false teeth for as long as I can remember their knowledge was not well informed so agreed to the work.
They looked great! I went through life with the Crowns, some gum recession took its toll and I think I’m now on the third set. They are now of an age where ideally, they would look better if replaced given one (or maybe two) have had root canals and one broke requiring a ‘post’ to refit it.
Moving on, 15yrs ago, I ended up having a large upper Molar removed and the gap closed by a bridge (NHS). This lasted for several years before coming loose and it was replaced with another but this time a 4-tooth bridge connecting also to my back-wisdom tooth. Whilst this was secure when I went for a private consultation (UK) in 2019 I was told it had failed so would likely cause some trouble in the future. Over time the odd tooth has broken in both upper and lower jaw and either refilled or where it couldn’t a Crown fixed on.
I have all my wisdom teeth and naturally in the lower set, cramming has pushed my front teeth together with the right canine being pushed out giving an ‘over-bite’.
Around that time Mrs Shanks suggested I get my teeth ‘sorted’. They were in general OK and being ‘fixed on failure’ by my trusted dentist. I’d floated the idea of new Crowns but he suggested not to start ‘lifting stones for danger of what you might find underneath’ and that they weren’t at the point NHS would fund it.
So far.
Private Consultations
Off I go to this place near me for a ‘consultation’. I can’t now find their treatment plan but was of a mind to frame it to show that Dick Turpin does indeed wear a mask in the form of a dentist’s uniform! That said the price is lasered into my brain. From memory their suggestion was to replace all crowns, take off the bridge install 2 implants to form a support for another bridge having taken a tooth out. I think two other implants were also mentioned. The overbite would be resolved with a brace and some general tidying up around the back lower teeth etc. Leaving aside correcting the over-bite the first ballpark figure was £18k (£21k if I wanted the bottom sorting) or if I paid up front I’d be £14k.
Now I’m used to negotiating for a second-hand car but surgery and dental work I sort of expected a fixed price. The guy wore plenty of bling and the staff car park looked like a supercar forecourt so I was questioning where the money was going. I offered £10k there and then. It was declined.
A few weeks later I’m at another private dentist and I asked the chap for an idea of a full workover. This plan was a similar treatment to the other guy (sort of encouraging) along with sorting the bottom overbite out and more informed by a mouth x-ray (the first place didn’t even take one as I presume he had the skill to diagnose without one!). All in around £12k. No discounts offered as this place was more straight up and I had a lot more confidence in him. I mulled it over.
It’s worth noting that these treatments would not go over and above to create a ‘smile makeover’ just resolve issues and hopefully give some longevity to what was left.
I will say I could afford either of these but plans, I’m not getting any younger and hope to get another 15-20yrs out of my teeth, so it wasn’t an issue spending the money – well it was! However, I like to know what I’m paying for and will pay a fair price for good work and not against the outfit making a profit – it’s a business after all. But what separates a UK cosmetic dentist from a Turkish or European dentist? If I call out a plumber in Hungary to fix a house boiler it's not going to be the same cost as a plumber doing the same job in the UK is it
On previous threads UK dentists have posted to defend their costs (training equipment etc) and I kind of get that but clearly there are some who go over and above raking a profit. Workers abroad are paid less and what appears the standard of training, hygiene and equipment is the same (and as I subsequently found) appears better overseas. So the overall costs are lower, right? Equally most dentists will use the same Lab to make the prosthetics so why the varying costs? And again no prosthetic dental work is ‘forever’ so there’s going to be further outlays as age takes it toll. That said my NHS Crowns have endured 15yrs in some cases without replacement.
So far
Off I go to this place near me for a ‘consultation’. I can’t now find their treatment plan but was of a mind to frame it to show that Dick Turpin does indeed wear a mask in the form of a dentist’s uniform! That said the price is lasered into my brain. From memory their suggestion was to replace all crowns, take off the bridge install 2 implants to form a support for another bridge having taken a tooth out. I think two other implants were also mentioned. The overbite would be resolved with a brace and some general tidying up around the back lower teeth etc. Leaving aside correcting the over-bite the first ballpark figure was £18k (£21k if I wanted the bottom sorting) or if I paid up front I’d be £14k.
Now I’m used to negotiating for a second-hand car but surgery and dental work I sort of expected a fixed price. The guy wore plenty of bling and the staff car park looked like a supercar forecourt so I was questioning where the money was going. I offered £10k there and then. It was declined.
A few weeks later I’m at another private dentist and I asked the chap for an idea of a full workover. This plan was a similar treatment to the other guy (sort of encouraging) along with sorting the bottom overbite out and more informed by a mouth x-ray (the first place didn’t even take one as I presume he had the skill to diagnose without one!). All in around £12k. No discounts offered as this place was more straight up and I had a lot more confidence in him. I mulled it over.
It’s worth noting that these treatments would not go over and above to create a ‘smile makeover’ just resolve issues and hopefully give some longevity to what was left.
I will say I could afford either of these but plans, I’m not getting any younger and hope to get another 15-20yrs out of my teeth, so it wasn’t an issue spending the money – well it was! However, I like to know what I’m paying for and will pay a fair price for good work and not against the outfit making a profit – it’s a business after all. But what separates a UK cosmetic dentist from a Turkish or European dentist? If I call out a plumber in Hungary to fix a house boiler it's not going to be the same cost as a plumber doing the same job in the UK is it
On previous threads UK dentists have posted to defend their costs (training equipment etc) and I kind of get that but clearly there are some who go over and above raking a profit. Workers abroad are paid less and what appears the standard of training, hygiene and equipment is the same (and as I subsequently found) appears better overseas. So the overall costs are lower, right? Equally most dentists will use the same Lab to make the prosthetics so why the varying costs? And again no prosthetic dental work is ‘forever’ so there’s going to be further outlays as age takes it toll. That said my NHS Crowns have endured 15yrs in some cases without replacement.
So far
Good evening Mr Shanks. Sounds like you've done a bit of homework on dental treatment. The dental industry is very poorly understood and you really only "get it" when you work in it. Even my other half doesn't get it despite being a medical professional herself.
Overseas dental work is a bit of a running joke in the profession at the moment. Most of us won't touch remedial work with a bargepole for fear of getting involved in litigation which could potentially end up in a career ending case. We have the highest rate of litigation in the world despite charging some of the lowest fees.
You mention the standard of training, materials etc being the same if not higher in Turkey.
The training is actually very hit and miss, however it is the attitude and flawed decision making of the dentists there that is most worrying. You have no comeback. Over here you can go to no less than eleven different organisations/bodies to complain about us and easily get things sorted. Try picking up a phone to your Turkish dentist when things go wrong and you'll be surprised by the change in tone.
Why do I keep seeing linked crowns from Turkey? Very bad for periodontal(gum) health and not regularly practised in the UK for over 20 years. Answer:cheaper and quicker for them.
Why do I keep seeing perfectly healthy teeth butchered to have crowns for the perfect smile? Answer: quick, easy, little skill required compared to veneers, easy to cement on.
Why do I see implants placed by what seems to be an implant blunderbuss? Answer: poor treatment planning and surgical skills.
Why did a lad I sometimes play 5-a-side with come back with 18 root canal treatments, permanent bridgework placed over a healing extraction socket, and a mouth full of poorly fitting crowns that have altered his bite and are giving him jaw joint pain? Answer: they wanted to make a quick buck. This guy was nearly in tears.
I saw a job advert on Facebook for a very slick practice in Zurich advertising for a dentist the other day. Very swanky, all the latest gizmos and gadgets, but I chuckled as the layout and workflow of the decontamination room and surgery didn't meet the crazy standards we have to achieve here in the UK.
As for dentists using the same labs equalling the same result...it's the treatment planning, decision making, skill of prepping a tooth, material selection, bonding protocol, management of the bite etc etc that is far more important. I used the same lab over 10 yrs ago and am a far more accomplished clinician now. Just because I used the same lab in 2009 doesn't mean my work was just as good back then as it is now!
Overseas dental work is a bit of a running joke in the profession at the moment. Most of us won't touch remedial work with a bargepole for fear of getting involved in litigation which could potentially end up in a career ending case. We have the highest rate of litigation in the world despite charging some of the lowest fees.
You mention the standard of training, materials etc being the same if not higher in Turkey.
The training is actually very hit and miss, however it is the attitude and flawed decision making of the dentists there that is most worrying. You have no comeback. Over here you can go to no less than eleven different organisations/bodies to complain about us and easily get things sorted. Try picking up a phone to your Turkish dentist when things go wrong and you'll be surprised by the change in tone.
Why do I keep seeing linked crowns from Turkey? Very bad for periodontal(gum) health and not regularly practised in the UK for over 20 years. Answer:cheaper and quicker for them.
Why do I keep seeing perfectly healthy teeth butchered to have crowns for the perfect smile? Answer: quick, easy, little skill required compared to veneers, easy to cement on.
Why do I see implants placed by what seems to be an implant blunderbuss? Answer: poor treatment planning and surgical skills.
Why did a lad I sometimes play 5-a-side with come back with 18 root canal treatments, permanent bridgework placed over a healing extraction socket, and a mouth full of poorly fitting crowns that have altered his bite and are giving him jaw joint pain? Answer: they wanted to make a quick buck. This guy was nearly in tears.
I saw a job advert on Facebook for a very slick practice in Zurich advertising for a dentist the other day. Very swanky, all the latest gizmos and gadgets, but I chuckled as the layout and workflow of the decontamination room and surgery didn't meet the crazy standards we have to achieve here in the UK.
As for dentists using the same labs equalling the same result...it's the treatment planning, decision making, skill of prepping a tooth, material selection, bonding protocol, management of the bite etc etc that is far more important. I used the same lab over 10 yrs ago and am a far more accomplished clinician now. Just because I used the same lab in 2009 doesn't mean my work was just as good back then as it is now!
Cringle, thanks for your observations. I don't necessarily disagree with you but I expect foreign residents to expect a level of dental treatment that meets the requirement of its patients. If I lived in Turkey and was a Turkish resident I'd expect decent dental work - there will be good and bad dentists so due diligence is needed. There's an inference amongst the UK profession that all Turkish dentists are crap. I can't accept that as the profession wouldn't survive.
The place I found is 'Regulated' by the Turkish authority. Whether that stands up to anything I don't know because I haven't tested it out. There is a compensation protocol if something goes wrong that includes funding emergency treatment in your home country.
You make an interesting point about 'linked' Crowns as this is what was advised for my front teeth to give them strength given they have been Crowned teeth for over 40yrs. I suppose the other option is two implants and then a bridge which is something I don't want as I'm more interested in preserving what I've still got before losing it altogether. The temporary set I currently have are linked but my intent is to review this when I next go for treatment assessing the pros and cons of single Crowns. Take account at least one has already broke and needed to be posted and then reafixed. Yes I'd prefer single Crowns as that's what they're replacing but I don't want to then have to deal with one that breaks or comes loose (and not just because the place is overseas).
Before I continue my story I agree that there are a lot of patients you and your colleagues will see that have gone for smile makeovers at the cost of damage to perfectly healthy teeth. The example you give, why on earth would somebody commit to treatment that involved 18 root canals and Crowns/Veneers just to look good? They've put image before risk and inevitable damage to their teeth whether it is done in the UK or abroad. And indeed there were plenty in Turkey going down that route which is a sad indictment on society.
My 25yr old daughter has good teeth and good oral hygiene but even she wanted veneers which I have refused to condone and so far talked her out of it. How many cosmetic dentists do you know in the UK that will refuse to give a patient what they want? Certainly the Blingmeister I met gave the impression you can have what you want if you have the money so fitting veneers to a kid in the UK is just as bad as doing it overseas surely?
Remember sorting my teeth out, to some extent replacing like for like was primary, improving my 'smile' was secondary.
Now back to it............
The place I found is 'Regulated' by the Turkish authority. Whether that stands up to anything I don't know because I haven't tested it out. There is a compensation protocol if something goes wrong that includes funding emergency treatment in your home country.
You make an interesting point about 'linked' Crowns as this is what was advised for my front teeth to give them strength given they have been Crowned teeth for over 40yrs. I suppose the other option is two implants and then a bridge which is something I don't want as I'm more interested in preserving what I've still got before losing it altogether. The temporary set I currently have are linked but my intent is to review this when I next go for treatment assessing the pros and cons of single Crowns. Take account at least one has already broke and needed to be posted and then reafixed. Yes I'd prefer single Crowns as that's what they're replacing but I don't want to then have to deal with one that breaks or comes loose (and not just because the place is overseas).
Before I continue my story I agree that there are a lot of patients you and your colleagues will see that have gone for smile makeovers at the cost of damage to perfectly healthy teeth. The example you give, why on earth would somebody commit to treatment that involved 18 root canals and Crowns/Veneers just to look good? They've put image before risk and inevitable damage to their teeth whether it is done in the UK or abroad. And indeed there were plenty in Turkey going down that route which is a sad indictment on society.
My 25yr old daughter has good teeth and good oral hygiene but even she wanted veneers which I have refused to condone and so far talked her out of it. How many cosmetic dentists do you know in the UK that will refuse to give a patient what they want? Certainly the Blingmeister I met gave the impression you can have what you want if you have the money so fitting veneers to a kid in the UK is just as bad as doing it overseas surely?
Remember sorting my teeth out, to some extent replacing like for like was primary, improving my 'smile' was secondary.
Now back to it............
Armitage.Shanks said:
Cringle, thanks for your observations. I don't necessarily disagree with you but I expect foreign residents to expect a level of dental treatment that meets the requirement of its patients. If I lived in Turkey and was a Turkish resident I'd expect decent dental work - there will be good and bad dentists so due diligence is needed. There's an inference amongst the UK profession that all Turkish dentists are crap. I can't accept that as the profession wouldn't survive.
was thinking the same ...so the rest of the world apart from UK/USA have terrible dental work and all the dentists are lousy?we havent had the "no uk dentist will touch you " line yet....what do all these immigrant folk do when they need some dentist work?
2021
We’re now in 2021 and I’d put the idea of a dental make-over on the back-burner, that is, until the lateral front incisor became loose and the post appeared to have fractured the root-bed making it insecure. My NHS dentist did his best and it sort of went back in OK (if it didn’t I’d end up with another bridge) but it got me thinking about private dental work and I floated with him the idea of going to Turkey. He said from what he had seen the quality of the work seems very good and some places had high standards. He would still continue to treat me when I came back but on a no liability basis. So, I started doing some research. As he is a staunch supporter of the NHS system, refusing to go down the private route he had nothing to lose.
I wasn’t drawn to Turkey as I had heard there were places in Eastern Europe offered similar so I emailed a few outfits. First Budapest. I’d sent them the x-ray of my mouth and their plan accorded to what the UK advised along with sorting the crooked teeth etc by crowns came to less than £8k. That said less work on the bottom set I think.
Next, I tried Turkey. As I wasn’t sure who I was emailing (‘info’@ etc) I gave them an outline of what I’d got and what I wanted sorting. A number of detailed options came back ranging from £3k-£6k (remember based on verbal description) depending on what was needed and the quality of Crowns I wanted. This seemed promising so I followed up with a copy of my 2019 x-ray. The quote came back, slightly revised (near the same as what Budapest advised – so that’s consistent) but less than £7k which included a lot of work (Crowns) and a smile make-over.
Disclaimer: I know who Rylan Clark is and his shade of teeth and smile is at the extreme end of mine. I wanted a decent job that didn’t look too obvious.
With the treatment plan I showed it to my NHS dentist for his expert opinion. Had he a free rein it was similar to what he would advise and undertake and bar the questioning a lot of additional crowns (lower set resolving the over-bite and wonky teeth) it was not unreasonable. Zirconium Crowns were advised (there are two grades higher at more expense) and he said these were top drawer what he cannot even offer. His only suggestion was review if I needed all the Crowns where the teeth were still good and don’t go for a shade lighter than A2. (BL1 is the brightest btw).
So far.
We’re now in 2021 and I’d put the idea of a dental make-over on the back-burner, that is, until the lateral front incisor became loose and the post appeared to have fractured the root-bed making it insecure. My NHS dentist did his best and it sort of went back in OK (if it didn’t I’d end up with another bridge) but it got me thinking about private dental work and I floated with him the idea of going to Turkey. He said from what he had seen the quality of the work seems very good and some places had high standards. He would still continue to treat me when I came back but on a no liability basis. So, I started doing some research. As he is a staunch supporter of the NHS system, refusing to go down the private route he had nothing to lose.
I wasn’t drawn to Turkey as I had heard there were places in Eastern Europe offered similar so I emailed a few outfits. First Budapest. I’d sent them the x-ray of my mouth and their plan accorded to what the UK advised along with sorting the crooked teeth etc by crowns came to less than £8k. That said less work on the bottom set I think.
Next, I tried Turkey. As I wasn’t sure who I was emailing (‘info’@ etc) I gave them an outline of what I’d got and what I wanted sorting. A number of detailed options came back ranging from £3k-£6k (remember based on verbal description) depending on what was needed and the quality of Crowns I wanted. This seemed promising so I followed up with a copy of my 2019 x-ray. The quote came back, slightly revised (near the same as what Budapest advised – so that’s consistent) but less than £7k which included a lot of work (Crowns) and a smile make-over.
Disclaimer: I know who Rylan Clark is and his shade of teeth and smile is at the extreme end of mine. I wanted a decent job that didn’t look too obvious.
With the treatment plan I showed it to my NHS dentist for his expert opinion. Had he a free rein it was similar to what he would advise and undertake and bar the questioning a lot of additional crowns (lower set resolving the over-bite and wonky teeth) it was not unreasonable. Zirconium Crowns were advised (there are two grades higher at more expense) and he said these were top drawer what he cannot even offer. His only suggestion was review if I needed all the Crowns where the teeth were still good and don’t go for a shade lighter than A2. (BL1 is the brightest btw).
So far.
Good luck and do your research.
My mum lives in Turkey for half the year and has had dental work done. More routine than yours but she always waits until she's out there before getting work done.
People see Turkey and think third world but whilst out there one year my mum ended up in hospital with a severe head trauma. Days in ICU type serious. The hospital facilities made Torbay and Cardiff's hospitals look like a Crimean field hospital.
Admittedly dentistry may be different.
We also have many Turkish and Eastern European dentists here running and working in surgeries. Are they all incompetent cowboys too?
My mum lives in Turkey for half the year and has had dental work done. More routine than yours but she always waits until she's out there before getting work done.
People see Turkey and think third world but whilst out there one year my mum ended up in hospital with a severe head trauma. Days in ICU type serious. The hospital facilities made Torbay and Cardiff's hospitals look like a Crimean field hospital.
Admittedly dentistry may be different.
We also have many Turkish and Eastern European dentists here running and working in surgeries. Are they all incompetent cowboys too?
Treatment Plan
I’m adding in my interpretation of the treatment plan that I discussed with my NHS dentist to give you an idea of what was involved. That said it is based on the 2019 x-ray above and I’d had some additional work done since then – broken tooth/Crown lower right and the lateral incisor issue. Worth noting teeth (17) and (18) have not been removed and remain original post my first visit. This is aslo without the onsite visit and further 3D/x-rays etc. Yes there are different tooth numbering systems!
[i] Recommendation is for the extraction of the second molar (17) and wisdom tooth (18) along the upper right jaw. The Oral Surgeon has advised the bone level is low, however, if the tooth is not mobile, it can remain in the gum line, however final confirmation will be made in the clinic itself.
The missing tooth was also identified as the first molar (26) along the upper left jaw. The Oral Surgeon has advised due to the bone level surrounding the second premolar (25) along the upper left jaw, the recommendation is for the extraction of this tooth remains the same as the tooth is no longer strong in the jaw bone.
Once the extractions have taken place, the recommendation is for 2 Dental Implants along the upper left jaw which will support 3 Zirconium Porcelain Implant Crowns/ Implant Bridge to replace the missing teeth.
Upon review of your X-Rays, it was noted that the bone level in the area where teeth are missing and are to be extracted is insufficient for the placement of Dental Implants, and the sinus pockets along the upper left jaw are low in position. The Oral Surgeon has advised that 5cc Bone Grafting and a Sinus Lift along the upper left jaw is required to ensure the safe and secure placement of your Dental Implants.
A further recommendation for the application of 10 Zirconium Porcelain Dental Crowns along your upper jaw and 14 Zirconium Porcelain Dental Crowns along your lower jaw to improve the appearance of your smile line.
On the second visit, after the recommended Implant healing period, there will be the application of 3 Zirconium Porcelain Implant Crowns/ Implant Bridge along your upper left jaw to complete your treatment.
Upon review of your dental photographs, it was noted that the canine (43) along the lower right jaw is out of alignment to the surrounding teeth. When a patient has teeth that are misaligned, to bring them into a better alignment it is often that the affected teeth shall require more preparation than is usual and this can bring with it the potential for future dental issues, such as sensitivity. To ensure discomfort is minimised the Cosmetic Dentist has advised that Root Canal Treatment is required for your canine (43) along your lower right jaw. However, treatment can only be determined during your consultation in the clinic itself, upon the application and review of a Panoramic X-ray in addition to the usual physical examination of your teeth.
As some of your teeth have already undergone preparation for Crowns by another dental provider, the Cosmetic Dentist is unsure of the type of preparation used, or the skill and experience of the dentist that has provided the treatment. With this being so, the clinic cannot provide any form of dental guarantee for the completion of your dental treatment to the teeth that have been treated before. [/i]
I was lucky to find a fellow PHer on here who had been to the place I was looking at so reached out to him for his experience (Thanks Richard). What he told me sowed the seed, gave me a recommendation I wanted to hear and I booked myself in. I needed to be there 7 days as 6 days would be in the chair. A return flight cost me £108 and decent hotel B&B £170 for the week.
Whilst I'm conscious UK dentists peruse these threads and whilst most (all) vehemently advise against going abroad for dental work, I've already made the conscious decision but feel free to offer a view based on the above and what to be advised of.
Interested in 'Periodontal Splinting' of Crowns that some see as a short cut but having read up where the tooth root/posts are weakened then it is advised especially for front teeth. If they are splinted at the tip and the teeth are separate at the gum line then flossing is possible?
I’m adding in my interpretation of the treatment plan that I discussed with my NHS dentist to give you an idea of what was involved. That said it is based on the 2019 x-ray above and I’d had some additional work done since then – broken tooth/Crown lower right and the lateral incisor issue. Worth noting teeth (17) and (18) have not been removed and remain original post my first visit. This is aslo without the onsite visit and further 3D/x-rays etc. Yes there are different tooth numbering systems!
[i] Recommendation is for the extraction of the second molar (17) and wisdom tooth (18) along the upper right jaw. The Oral Surgeon has advised the bone level is low, however, if the tooth is not mobile, it can remain in the gum line, however final confirmation will be made in the clinic itself.
The missing tooth was also identified as the first molar (26) along the upper left jaw. The Oral Surgeon has advised due to the bone level surrounding the second premolar (25) along the upper left jaw, the recommendation is for the extraction of this tooth remains the same as the tooth is no longer strong in the jaw bone.
Once the extractions have taken place, the recommendation is for 2 Dental Implants along the upper left jaw which will support 3 Zirconium Porcelain Implant Crowns/ Implant Bridge to replace the missing teeth.
Upon review of your X-Rays, it was noted that the bone level in the area where teeth are missing and are to be extracted is insufficient for the placement of Dental Implants, and the sinus pockets along the upper left jaw are low in position. The Oral Surgeon has advised that 5cc Bone Grafting and a Sinus Lift along the upper left jaw is required to ensure the safe and secure placement of your Dental Implants.
A further recommendation for the application of 10 Zirconium Porcelain Dental Crowns along your upper jaw and 14 Zirconium Porcelain Dental Crowns along your lower jaw to improve the appearance of your smile line.
On the second visit, after the recommended Implant healing period, there will be the application of 3 Zirconium Porcelain Implant Crowns/ Implant Bridge along your upper left jaw to complete your treatment.
Upon review of your dental photographs, it was noted that the canine (43) along the lower right jaw is out of alignment to the surrounding teeth. When a patient has teeth that are misaligned, to bring them into a better alignment it is often that the affected teeth shall require more preparation than is usual and this can bring with it the potential for future dental issues, such as sensitivity. To ensure discomfort is minimised the Cosmetic Dentist has advised that Root Canal Treatment is required for your canine (43) along your lower right jaw. However, treatment can only be determined during your consultation in the clinic itself, upon the application and review of a Panoramic X-ray in addition to the usual physical examination of your teeth.
As some of your teeth have already undergone preparation for Crowns by another dental provider, the Cosmetic Dentist is unsure of the type of preparation used, or the skill and experience of the dentist that has provided the treatment. With this being so, the clinic cannot provide any form of dental guarantee for the completion of your dental treatment to the teeth that have been treated before. [/i]
I was lucky to find a fellow PHer on here who had been to the place I was looking at so reached out to him for his experience (Thanks Richard). What he told me sowed the seed, gave me a recommendation I wanted to hear and I booked myself in. I needed to be there 7 days as 6 days would be in the chair. A return flight cost me £108 and decent hotel B&B £170 for the week.
Whilst I'm conscious UK dentists peruse these threads and whilst most (all) vehemently advise against going abroad for dental work, I've already made the conscious decision but feel free to offer a view based on the above and what to be advised of.
Interested in 'Periodontal Splinting' of Crowns that some see as a short cut but having read up where the tooth root/posts are weakened then it is advised especially for front teeth. If they are splinted at the tip and the teeth are separate at the gum line then flossing is possible?
BigGingerBob said:
People see Turkey and think third world but .... The hospital facilities made Torbay and Cardiff's hospitals look like a Crimean field hospital.
Very much this. I have spent quite a lot of time in Turkey and their healthcare facilities (if you pay for them) are truly excellent. Panamax said:
Upper jaw molar implants - what's the story on sinus lift etc?
Where I had a tooth removed many years ago that had been sorted with the bridge I think when a tooth is extracted the bone mass around the original root shrinks? I'm no expert but fitting inplants on the top set requires a good bone density to not pierce the sinus tracts. This can also happen if someone goes too far with a root canal I believe.The above x-ray does not show it very well but the bone was shown to have degraded around the tooth next to it hence why it was advised to take out.
I'll try and dig a photo out but in terms of last cavity - not for years as I don't think there are many teeth left to fill! I've filled teeth 'corners' break and then rebuilt and in 2021 a filled LR molar broke that couldn't sustain another filling so it was crowned.
My gums haven't bled for years.
My gums haven't bled for years.
The radiograph is not very clear, but there seems to be some areas of advanced periodontal problems. Especially the lower incisor area. It is difficult to offer a fully informed opinion without better rads or study models. It seems an awful lot of crowns on teeth that look to have a poor prognosis. The lower incisors because of the poor bony support and the upper anteriors seem to have variable root fillings and short posts in them. If I were doing this as an advanced restorative case, I would start with getting the periodontal condition under control, then the upper left implants. Upper arch and then lower arch. Multiple visits over a couple of years at least. I think it is asking for trouble to do it all in one go.
Thanks for chipping in. I wonder if this link helps with the clarity of the x-ray?
https://ibb.co/1mf4mPg
Now for the scary pics and you only realise how bad your teeth are when you take close up pics! Without exposing the gum line and with the ordinary eye they don't look bad (from a distance). Take account that I also brush my teeth at least once a day, certainly every night and use a final rinse mouthwash. In the past I've been accused of brushing too hard that has no doubt contributed to the gum recession.
I'll add these as a 'spoiler alert' so as not to shock anyone of a nervous disposition. Overbite is obvious on one of them.
https://ibb.co/1mf4mPg
Now for the scary pics and you only realise how bad your teeth are when you take close up pics! Without exposing the gum line and with the ordinary eye they don't look bad (from a distance). Take account that I also brush my teeth at least once a day, certainly every night and use a final rinse mouthwash. In the past I've been accused of brushing too hard that has no doubt contributed to the gum recession.
I'll add these as a 'spoiler alert' so as not to shock anyone of a nervous disposition. Overbite is obvious on one of them.
Actually I don’t think the overbite is that bad. I was concerned about the plans to possibly rootfill the lower right 3 to allow for repositioning, but it seem relatively straightforward to bring it into the arch a bit and kick out the upper with the crown to correct the bite.
First thing though would be to measure perio pocket depths all round and to get you using interdental brushes!
First thing though would be to measure perio pocket depths all round and to get you using interdental brushes!
I don't disagree and 'fixing' LR3 a root canal was mentioned as likely if moving it caused irritation.. The problem with NHS only treatment you ideally need to supplement it with hygenist visits and something I'll be doing going forward.
What's your view on splicing Crowns? Given the weak foundations on the front 4 connecting them together was advised. My concern is having access to the gum line for flossing? I've seen some where they are splinted lower down the tooth to allow flossing between the individual mounts.
What's your view on splicing Crowns? Given the weak foundations on the front 4 connecting them together was advised. My concern is having access to the gum line for flossing? I've seen some where they are splinted lower down the tooth to allow flossing between the individual mounts.
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