Why Was My Dad's Post Mortem So Intrusive?
Discussion
Please Note: Some parts might be a tad graphic for some readers.
Around five years ago my dad passed away after his life support was switched off. A month before the event he was hit (by an RS6 being driven by an airport parking driver) as he crossed the road. The consultants at St Mary's Hospital said he lost his life at the scene of the impact, but, they managed to resuscitate him and we held on to hope. He was 75. A very fit and active 75.
Like with one or two other traumas in my life, I've internalised it. Perhaps it is buried under other emotions; he was married again and his wife did all she could to prevent him from seeing me from from the day she elbowed her way into our lives. From December 2015 (the day he was hit) to his final day in January 2016 I would visit him daily, but even this was made difficult by her as it was strictly two at a time and she would not allow me any time at his bedside. The events leading up to his funeral were no different either as I was very much an outsider. On the day of his funeral, I may as well have been the hearse driver. She did not allow me any airtime whatsoever. The nextdoor neighbour's dog could deliver a eulogy if he wanted, but not me.
The inquest to his death was also drawn out. There was a long delay as apparently there were no other pathologists to the 'already busy' ones who were snowed under with post postmortems. It eventually happened and dad's body was released.
I managed to speak to the funeral directors to explain that there was a two-family scenario going on. They were sympathetic, but the gentleman I spoke did intimate that he was already having some difficulty communicating some important matters to the family. By this, I became an intermediary and it is the only time I felt like my dad's son again. The issue was the condition of his body.
The impact had busted him up quite badly; his right leg, hip, rib cage, arm and collar bone were broken. The area at the base of his skull was also quite noticeably impacted. However, that - they said - was not their concern. It was what the postmortem had left him looking like. The funeral director asked if dad ever wore a hat (he did sometimes but was not known for it). They were concerned about the coffin being open, if so they would have to do a lot of work to make him presentable and one of the things they thought would be a good idea was to put a hat on him. The top of his head had been removed. his chest was stitched up like a Sunday roast but a shirt would have covered that, but why did they go into his head? Why was it so intrusive? He was 75 years-old and had been flipped up into the air by a fast car and he cartwheeled his way into the air before landing on the road. Was it to prove that he was of sound mind?
I've wanted to just get this out there, certainly for the obvious answers to the questions but more because I tried counseling but it didn't go as I was hoping. Discussing the fragments around this life shattering event hopefully will help come to terms with what happened; I'm on my own in terms of the family so haven't had the opportunity to share with kin.
Not looking for sympathy either. I've been through many dramas in my life thus far and the skin is thick etc. Facebook is awash with navel gazing narcissists and I'm not looking for anything other than to get some help with closure to the events around my old man's death.
Thanks, nonetheless.
If a full autopsy is called for then they should always check the brain.
Sorry to say it sounds like whomever closed everything up just did a really bad job on your Dad. My family (father & sister) and worked in this area (father an embalmer, sister the head of the mortuary) and don't think they ever had to use hats to cover up the closure stitching for open coffin. I seem to recall that the incision to remove the top (of the skull) is done around the back of the head, behind the ears, so that it's hidden when the body is laid out.
Sorry to say it sounds like whomever closed everything up just did a really bad job on your Dad. My family (father & sister) and worked in this area (father an embalmer, sister the head of the mortuary) and don't think they ever had to use hats to cover up the closure stitching for open coffin. I seem to recall that the incision to remove the top (of the skull) is done around the back of the head, behind the ears, so that it's hidden when the body is laid out.
Sorry to read about your dad and the whole situation, what a s
t show
All I can say is you are made of much stronger metal than me and probably a lot of other guys here, from your description you have shown remarkable restraint and that sorta stuff, I’d had a breakdown or done something daft no doubt
Cheers
t showAll I can say is you are made of much stronger metal than me and probably a lot of other guys here, from your description you have shown remarkable restraint and that sorta stuff, I’d had a breakdown or done something daft no doubt
Cheers
J4CKO said:
I know you aren't after sympathy, but you have mine, that's a harrowing read.
Was the car driver prosecuted ?
Nope. Family Liaison Officer and I had a good chat about it afterwards. the problem was that there was not enough evidence to support a charge. The road was wet; no cameras caught enough data to help determine speed; the driver's phone wasn't taken off him; the car went into police storage and remained there until the incident turned into a fatality and *then* the car was checked. Was the car driver prosecuted ?
Cluster.
f
k. I rationalised somewhat, the driver will live with that all his life. FLO said he shrugged his shoulders when he was told the elderly man he'd hit didn't make it. Didn't take a single day off. No remorse shown. I was counseled by a CID friend who vehemently advised against any retribution after hearing that.
Spare tyre said:
Sorry to read about your dad and the whole situation, what a st show
All I can say is you are made of much stronger metal than me and probably a lot of other guys here, from your description you have shown remarkable restraint and that sorta stuff, I’d had a breakdown or done something daft no doubt
Cheers
+1. You have done an amazing job from the sounds of it I am sure your dad would have been proud how you dealt with this. Sorry for your loss.t showAll I can say is you are made of much stronger metal than me and probably a lot of other guys here, from your description you have shown remarkable restraint and that sorta stuff, I’d had a breakdown or done something daft no doubt
Cheers
gotoPzero said:
+1. You have done an amazing job from the sounds of it I am sure your dad would have been proud how you dealt with this. Sorry for your loss.
+2 As above. You can only let yourself be you, & process things naturally, in it's own time. I wish you all the very best for the future.Glassman said:
J4CKO said:
I know you aren't after sympathy, but you have mine, that's a harrowing read.
Was the car driver prosecuted ?
I rationalised somewhat, the driver will live with that all his life. FLO said he shrugged his shoulders when he was told the elderly man he'd hit didn't make it. Didn't take a single day off. No remorse shown. I was counseled by a CID friend who vehemently advised against any retribution after hearing that. Was the car driver prosecuted ?
t
t I believe it's now possible to request non-invasive post mortems.
https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/births-marriages-and...
https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/births-marriages-and...
Sounds like the circumstances before your dad's death were were difficult, you were not able to have the relationship you might expect and the nature of his death meant you have had no opportunity to resolve this. As you say he was fit and 75, it would be reasonable to try and play a long game in negotiating access.
I wonder if focussing on the PM is a bit of a distraction from the real grief which is a pretty catastrophic loss.
That being said having an understanding of process might help. The pathologist would have to examine the brain. I wonder if the usual approach was not taken due significant injury. The injury would need to be preserved to be examined and reported.
Mortuary technicians are responsible for some of the opening and all of the closing up. This is functional rather than cosmetic.
You should be able to find the proceedings of the coroner if that helps
I wonder if focussing on the PM is a bit of a distraction from the real grief which is a pretty catastrophic loss.
That being said having an understanding of process might help. The pathologist would have to examine the brain. I wonder if the usual approach was not taken due significant injury. The injury would need to be preserved to be examined and reported.
Mortuary technicians are responsible for some of the opening and all of the closing up. This is functional rather than cosmetic.
You should be able to find the proceedings of the coroner if that helps
Sorry for your loss mate, that sounds like you've really been through it.
I had a similar experience around 6/7 years ago with my best mate. He was killed by a guy who punched him once in a scuffle where my mate intervened in a domestic on a night out. His post mortem was carried out but it was just as intrusive as the one your dad had. It's because all things must be checked if there's a chance of a prosecution to prevent any defence arising from something that wasn't checked at the time. What made things worse was that the defence were also allowed to carry out their own post mortem, they didn't have the money to do that so the court allowed them to delay proceedings for months until the body was released.
I felt horrified that my mate was being messed with to satisfy something ultimately to do with what had killed him months earlier. I imagine you feel the same with the PM being so intrusive on your dad. I needed a bit of help to deal with things and some counselling really helped but also time and the space to process it helped. I took up running ironman races which consumed all my spare time and left me no time or energy to process it. It was great at the time but really I was hiding from things and just kicking the can further down the road and it had to be dealt with at some point. I'd definitely try the counselling again, sometimes you might not get the right person or might not even be ready so it's worth another shot.
I had a similar experience around 6/7 years ago with my best mate. He was killed by a guy who punched him once in a scuffle where my mate intervened in a domestic on a night out. His post mortem was carried out but it was just as intrusive as the one your dad had. It's because all things must be checked if there's a chance of a prosecution to prevent any defence arising from something that wasn't checked at the time. What made things worse was that the defence were also allowed to carry out their own post mortem, they didn't have the money to do that so the court allowed them to delay proceedings for months until the body was released.
I felt horrified that my mate was being messed with to satisfy something ultimately to do with what had killed him months earlier. I imagine you feel the same with the PM being so intrusive on your dad. I needed a bit of help to deal with things and some counselling really helped but also time and the space to process it helped. I took up running ironman races which consumed all my spare time and left me no time or energy to process it. It was great at the time but really I was hiding from things and just kicking the can further down the road and it had to be dealt with at some point. I'd definitely try the counselling again, sometimes you might not get the right person or might not even be ready so it's worth another shot.
oddman said:
I wonder if focussing on the PM is a bit of a distraction from the real grief which is a pretty catastrophic loss.
Perhaps. However, the incident was in December 2015 and his passing was in January 2016. I've nurtured the thoughts in my head since. Not sure if it's how my brain is wired to deal with traumatic events, or if I've adapted to coping from a young age (several events occurred in my early years). Writing has always been my outlet. This thread is cathartic. I tried counseling recently; two different therapists. The second one was - I thought - the best fit. It didn't work out for a couple of reasons leading me to think that I either wipe my mouth and plod on, or if I am going in for help, maybe I should consider something a bit more analytical. That said, I do understand much of my own emotions. Some things you cannot change, but you can change how you feel about them.
Life for me really is a day-by-day survival. Yesterday was a good day. I can control events and emotions today to make it another. Losing my dad in such horrific circumstances wasn't the issue. It was the finality of him no longer being around to acknowledge that he perhaps could have handled the second wife scenario better. I've learned to do that on his behalf
Although you do not ask for sympathy, you have mine.
From what I would suspect as a neutral aspect, you have a fit and healthy person (ignore 75) who has a second wife, who has signs of a family that is not talking to each other the best. Yes, the accident may have been brutal, but was it 100% the cause? - I feel that once the person getting the post mortem gets going, (s)he will want to give a comprehensive report as to what the issues found were, so if a case is raised the post mortem will be complete and not leave any doubt as to the cause.
I have only been involved in one post mortem before, and the docs simply stated the PM was too intrusive, an open coffin was not going to be possible.
(person was young and underlying health issue was not known about)
From what I would suspect as a neutral aspect, you have a fit and healthy person (ignore 75) who has a second wife, who has signs of a family that is not talking to each other the best. Yes, the accident may have been brutal, but was it 100% the cause? - I feel that once the person getting the post mortem gets going, (s)he will want to give a comprehensive report as to what the issues found were, so if a case is raised the post mortem will be complete and not leave any doubt as to the cause.
I have only been involved in one post mortem before, and the docs simply stated the PM was too intrusive, an open coffin was not going to be possible.
(person was young and underlying health issue was not known about)
J4CKO said:
I know you aren't after sympathy, but you have mine, that's a harrowing read.
Was the car driver prosecuted ?
Me too that is bloody awful. You have my sympathy and please put the wretched woman in your rear view mirrors. Was the car driver prosecuted ?
I have dealt with a number of bodies (not post mortem) and having done so I firmly believe that the shell left is just a shell.
I went to my mums funeral a few months ago and I wasn't fussed where the ashes went. She's moved on.
All the best
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