Helping a partner with work-related stress
Discussion
Mr Pointy said:
Is ther a factor which has lead to the increase in workload? Could this be addressed?
Counter intuitively, the whole profession seems to be slammed at the moment due to COVID. It could be addressed through recruitment, but there is nobody to recruit. So it is simply too much work to do and too few people to do it, which isn't something she can resolve. She needs to stop enabling the problem by doing the long hours; it's hard - but a stand now is important or this will just be the 'norm' and expected.
If the work cannot be done in a reasonable working day then it simply shouldn't be picked up out of hours from your partners own generosity.
Long hours should be for something unplanned, unexpected or for incident resolution - not just to turn the handle and keep things moving BAU.
If the work cannot be done in a reasonable working day then it simply shouldn't be picked up out of hours from your partners own generosity.
Long hours should be for something unplanned, unexpected or for incident resolution - not just to turn the handle and keep things moving BAU.
PrinceRupert said:
BrettMRC said:
She needs to stop enabling the problem by doing the long hours; it's hard - but a stand now is important or this will just be the 'norm' and expected.
If the work cannot be done in a reasonable working day then it simply shouldn't be picked up out of hours from your partners own generosity.
Long hours should be for something unplanned, unexpected or for incident resolution - not just to turn the handle and keep things moving BAU.
Sadly, in the industry it is the norm and it is expected and there is no real way you can simply say no you are not working those hours, other than leaving to another firm. In some firms, the trade off is massive salaries; her firm is mid-tier and although the salary is good, it is not so good that it is worth working 60+ hour weeks for. But, she couldn't simply say no. If the work cannot be done in a reasonable working day then it simply shouldn't be picked up out of hours from your partners own generosity.
Long hours should be for something unplanned, unexpected or for incident resolution - not just to turn the handle and keep things moving BAU.
This tells me that if she is going to be happy, she needs to get out of there.
PrinceRupert said:
Sadly, in the industry it is the norm and it is expected and there is no real way you can simply say no you are not working those hours, other than leaving to another firm. In some firms, the trade off is massive salaries; her firm is mid-tier and although the salary is good, it is not so good that it is worth working 60+ hour weeks for. But, she couldn't simply say no.
Yes, she can. It's difficult, but then so is doing the hours. Pick one - happy bosses or a reasonable work/life balance. Start with new work - if she has issues saying no, she can ask for clarification as to priorities - "is this new thing more important than the old thing, as I cant do both". Its not a lightswitch moment for whoever keeps giving her the work, but a slow, learned behaviour thing. And it absolutely doesn't need to come across as workshy or bolshy.PrinceRupert said:
Sadly, in the industry it is the norm and it is expected and there is no real way you can simply say no you are not working those hours, other than leaving to another firm. In some firms, the trade off is massive salaries; her firm is mid-tier and although the salary is good, it is not so good that it is worth working 60+ hour weeks for. But, she couldn't simply say no.
Well then I'd say she has two choices, talk to her manager and be 100% honest, if that means she falls short of their expectations then she's lost nothing and will find have to find another job anyway. Or, find another job.
BrettMRC said:
She needs to stop enabling the problem by doing the long hours; it's hard - but a stand now is important or this will just be the 'norm' and expected.
If the work cannot be done in a reasonable working day then it simply shouldn't be picked up out of hours from your partners own generosity.
Long hours should be for something unplanned, unexpected or for incident resolution - not just to turn the handle and keep things moving BAU.
Easier said than done especially if others are relying on your work being done to a tight time schedule.If the work cannot be done in a reasonable working day then it simply shouldn't be picked up out of hours from your partners own generosity.
Long hours should be for something unplanned, unexpected or for incident resolution - not just to turn the handle and keep things moving BAU.
She has also only been there a short time so may feel she's not in a position to start pushing back at people more senior than her.
OP, has she had a chat with her line manager about this?
If she can't see a way that it will improve and she's miserable then life's too short to stick in a job you hate.
Can you both survive on one salary short term or reduced salary if/when she may go into a different type of work altogether?
PrinceRupert said:
Sadly, in the industry it is the norm and it is expected and there is no real way you can simply say no you are not working those hours, other than leaving to another firm. In some firms, the trade off is massive salaries; her firm is mid-tier and although the salary is good, it is not so good that it is worth working 60+ hour weeks for. But, she couldn't simply say no.
She either needs to accept it or address it. She needs to start saying no, or move jobs. Shortage of her skills and excess work puts her in a strong negotiating position not a weak one.
I have had similar experience with my wife (Head of finance and HR) who was the go to from her boss as she is able, and always said yes. And had a massive workload under Covid. She started saying no, and largely working her hours. There has been no negative consequences.
PrinceRupert said:
BrettMRC said:
She needs to stop enabling the problem by doing the long hours; it's hard - but a stand now is important or this will just be the 'norm' and expected.
If the work cannot be done in a reasonable working day then it simply shouldn't be picked up out of hours from your partners own generosity.
Long hours should be for something unplanned, unexpected or for incident resolution - not just to turn the handle and keep things moving BAU.
Sadly, in the industry it is the norm and it is expected and there is no real way you can simply say no you are not working those hours, other than leaving to another firm. In some firms, the trade off is massive salaries; her firm is mid-tier and although the salary is good, it is not so good that it is worth working 60+ hour weeks for. But, she couldn't simply say no. If the work cannot be done in a reasonable working day then it simply shouldn't be picked up out of hours from your partners own generosity.
Long hours should be for something unplanned, unexpected or for incident resolution - not just to turn the handle and keep things moving BAU.
If this is the standard in the industry, and she is not getting the salary to compensate, then the choices are either:
- Stand firm, refuse the work and either get a pay rise or get fired (as she has only been there 18 months, no protection at the moment)
- Look for another job with better working conditions - there must be other positions for qualified legal people that don't have the same demands, and leave anyway
To add, my wife has talked about dropping her hours. I have always supported this, the only 'condition' (like I have a say...) I said she needs to work her actual hours first to prove she wasn't just going to do the same work, and volunteering for a 20% pay cut.
As above, she is largely working her hours, and much less interested in going part time!
As above, she is largely working her hours, and much less interested in going part time!
We were working offshore with a client, the hours started getting mental trying to keep things running. Upwards of 100+ hour weeks, and this was in a hot and sweaty environment in Africa. We were snowed under and due to our tiredness started missing things and not been as productive as we used to be, a viscous circle.
We eventually cracked and pushed back and went to working to rule (84hour weeks). We were reported to our office for been uncooperative but when we cited how dangerous it was for us to do these hours the client backed off.
It's a case of the more you give, the more they take. It becomes the norm, but a push back citing overloading and stress is a reasonable direction to take. See what the reaction is to it and take it from there?
We eventually cracked and pushed back and went to working to rule (84hour weeks). We were reported to our office for been uncooperative but when we cited how dangerous it was for us to do these hours the client backed off.
It's a case of the more you give, the more they take. It becomes the norm, but a push back citing overloading and stress is a reasonable direction to take. See what the reaction is to it and take it from there?
randlemarcus said:
PrinceRupert said:
Sadly, in the industry it is the norm and it is expected and there is no real way you can simply say no you are not working those hours, other than leaving to another firm. In some firms, the trade off is massive salaries; her firm is mid-tier and although the salary is good, it is not so good that it is worth working 60+ hour weeks for. But, she couldn't simply say no.
Yes, she can. It's difficult, but then so is doing the hours. Pick one - happy bosses or a reasonable work/life balance. Start with new work - if she has issues saying no, she can ask for clarification as to priorities - "is this new thing more important than the old thing, as I cant do both". Its not a lightswitch moment for whoever keeps giving her the work, but a slow, learned behaviour thing. And it absolutely doesn't need to come across as workshy or bolshy.I'm not saying drop to 40 hours a week but she needs to find a way to manage what she is assigned, as indicated above.
PrinceRupert said:
She burst into tears at her desk this morning - she made a minor mistake (arguably not even a mistake, just taking a day to do something rather than two hours because she has so much else to do, which then led to a minor negative consequence), and this sent her over the edge, probably due to the lack of sleep. It is clear that this is neither healthy nor sustainable.
No work this weekend. It stops at 6pm on Friday & starts again at 8am on Monday. No computer, no tablet, no phone.She needs a break.
Mr Pointy said:
PrinceRupert said:
She burst into tears at her desk this morning - she made a minor mistake (arguably not even a mistake, just taking a day to do something rather than two hours because she has so much else to do, which then led to a minor negative consequence), and this sent her over the edge, probably due to the lack of sleep. It is clear that this is neither healthy nor sustainable.
No work this weekend. It stops at 6pm on Friday & starts again at 8am on Monday. No computer, no tablet, no phone.She needs a break.
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