Testosterone Replacement Therapy
Discussion
Just wondering if any of you guys out there can give me a bit of advice?
Went to the doctor recently for an issue with my ankle, got bones spurs on the back of my heel bone that sometimes interfere with my Achilles’ tendon, anyway, one of the things I asked for though was a full set of blood tests to check everything over as it’s a long time since I last had one and I’m 34.
One of the things that came back was my testosterone level is between 13-14, I’ll check exact level when I get home tonight. This seems on the low range but I know the 3 important things to check are Test, free Test and Eostrogen, I believe my doctor only checked Test levels.
Now my questions are, is anyone here taking it at all?
I know 13-14 isn’t extremely low and is in the “acceptable range” according to the NHS so probably won’t be able to get TRT on the NHS so just wondering if I’m worrying for nothing or if I should be getting my test booster “artificially”. I do lift 4x a week and do cardio twice so a boost in Test would be lovely to help me with the gym but it’s more my overall health that I’m interested in. A boost in lifting numbers is great but not good enough for me to be screwing around with hormones.
Also, if I go on TRT, would it be a situation whereby I can never come off it as my body will have gotten so used to TRT that it wouldn’t be able to go back to “normal” levels?
Also, do I need to take Eostrogen blockers as well? I don’t want my test boosting to levels of a Mr Olympia athlete pumping himself full of steroids but it would be nice to be up to the higher range of normal.
Went to the doctor recently for an issue with my ankle, got bones spurs on the back of my heel bone that sometimes interfere with my Achilles’ tendon, anyway, one of the things I asked for though was a full set of blood tests to check everything over as it’s a long time since I last had one and I’m 34.
One of the things that came back was my testosterone level is between 13-14, I’ll check exact level when I get home tonight. This seems on the low range but I know the 3 important things to check are Test, free Test and Eostrogen, I believe my doctor only checked Test levels.
Now my questions are, is anyone here taking it at all?
I know 13-14 isn’t extremely low and is in the “acceptable range” according to the NHS so probably won’t be able to get TRT on the NHS so just wondering if I’m worrying for nothing or if I should be getting my test booster “artificially”. I do lift 4x a week and do cardio twice so a boost in Test would be lovely to help me with the gym but it’s more my overall health that I’m interested in. A boost in lifting numbers is great but not good enough for me to be screwing around with hormones.
Also, if I go on TRT, would it be a situation whereby I can never come off it as my body will have gotten so used to TRT that it wouldn’t be able to go back to “normal” levels?
Also, do I need to take Eostrogen blockers as well? I don’t want my test boosting to levels of a Mr Olympia athlete pumping himself full of steroids but it would be nice to be up to the higher range of normal.
I know it's not your motivation, but you'll get a much better response on a dedicated bodybuilding forum, try a search on UK muscle for example TRT questions are posted almost daily.
Be wary of mentioning that you lift to your GP though, they will immediately suspect steroid abuse and wash their hands of you according to most people's experiences.
In terms of bloods your GPs scope is fairly limited in what he can do, it's worth paying for a full sports hormone test from somewhere like Medichecks, then you can at least visit your GP armed with the results and some idea of the direction you need to take next.
Be wary of mentioning that you lift to your GP though, they will immediately suspect steroid abuse and wash their hands of you according to most people's experiences.
In terms of bloods your GPs scope is fairly limited in what he can do, it's worth paying for a full sports hormone test from somewhere like Medichecks, then you can at least visit your GP armed with the results and some idea of the direction you need to take next.
toohuge said:
My t-levels kick around the 6-9 levels and I’m 29.... anyway, I won’t be placed on treatment as ‘it’s not a priority’.
Even though I display all the symptoms etc. I was told, that if I was trying to conceive then they’d look into testosterone replacement ??
That's daft - TRT reduces your fertility. Even though I display all the symptoms etc. I was told, that if I was trying to conceive then they’d look into testosterone replacement ??
I went privately (through Work) after a blood test showed a figure of 3.7. I use gels each day and feel much better.
In my case, having low T over time meant that I had also developed Osteopenia, which i knew nothing about. Make sure you have lots of calcuim and Vit D too.
Did you take the test early morning?
Darkslider said:
I know it's not your motivation, but you'll get a much better response on a dedicated bodybuilding forum, try a search on UK muscle for example TRT questions are posted almost daily.
Be wary of mentioning that you lift to your GP though, they will immediately suspect steroid abuse and wash their hands of you according to most people's experiences.
In terms of bloods your GPs scope is fairly limited in what he can do, it's worth paying for a full sports hormone test from somewhere like Medichecks, then you can at least visit your GP armed with the results and some idea of the direction you need to take next.
Everything i have read seems to suggest that NHS GPs are very much ignorant to TRT and can be very apprehensive about getting people on it, even if they're very low to a point where it's causing serious issues for them. My results suggest that my Test is low but not something to worry about and i have never knowingly had issues at all. Reading up as much as i can but my definite worry was that if i go on TRT privately paying £60 - £80 a month for gels/injections, my body will never recover if i come off.Be wary of mentioning that you lift to your GP though, they will immediately suspect steroid abuse and wash their hands of you according to most people's experiences.
In terms of bloods your GPs scope is fairly limited in what he can do, it's worth paying for a full sports hormone test from somewhere like Medichecks, then you can at least visit your GP armed with the results and some idea of the direction you need to take next.
A few people are recommending booking a private appointment to see an endocrinoligist privately who'll be a lot more educated when it comes to what i should be worried about...either way my lifts at the gym are going up, my strength is beyond that of the average guy, i'm fit and healthy.
If you really feel that you're suffering, and the NHS won't help....
Buy some test E or Cyp, self administer TRT dose every 7-10 days, get blood work done a few times a year to monitor. Oestrogen control may, or may not be required. Likely not at a real TRT dose.
You can come off, and get things working again if required, but there is always a very small risk that you may be shut down permanently.
Gels are an alternative, but have there own issues.
This is what would happen privately, but you'd be charged a lot more.
Buy some test E or Cyp, self administer TRT dose every 7-10 days, get blood work done a few times a year to monitor. Oestrogen control may, or may not be required. Likely not at a real TRT dose.
You can come off, and get things working again if required, but there is always a very small risk that you may be shut down permanently.
Gels are an alternative, but have there own issues.
This is what would happen privately, but you'd be charged a lot more.
Regiment said:
Everything i have read seems to suggest that NHS GPs are very much ignorant to TRT and can be very apprehensive about getting people on it, even if they're very low to a point where it's causing serious issues for them. My results suggest that my Test is low but not something to worry about and i have never knowingly had issues at all. Reading up as much as i can but my definite worry was that if i go on TRT privately paying £60 - £80 a month for gels/injections, my body will never recover if i come off.
A few people are recommending booking a private appointment to see an endocrinoligist privately who'll be a lot more educated when it comes to what i should be worried about...either way my lifts at the gym are going up, my strength is beyond that of the average guy, i'm fit and healthy.
So my T has been low my entire adult life. I had a test when I was 17 and the GP said it was on the low end of normal, but was still normal. Obviously from there it got worse and worse. My symptoms were mostly around inability to get little Scabutz to stand to attention and low mood / anxiety which I had all through my late teens, 20s into my 30s.A few people are recommending booking a private appointment to see an endocrinoligist privately who'll be a lot more educated when it comes to what i should be worried about...either way my lifts at the gym are going up, my strength is beyond that of the average guy, i'm fit and healthy.
Anyway in to my 30s and the symptoms were getting worse. I had tried counselling and that solved nothing. Funnily someone on here age ago suggested I have my T levels checked (this was when I had a different account I flounced from). GP tested it and everything else. T came back below normal, although not massively. I saw the GP and they dismissed it all - as you say they didn't seem to understand it. I wasn't happy so went to a different GP. They were much better. Said they would do another test and if that was low would refer me to an endocrinologist as it was, quote. "to complex an area for them to treat"!
2nd test was even lower so got referred. In the mean time they gave testogel sachets. Had to wait a couple of months to see the endo. She took full history about everything, from teenage years up. Interestingly she thought that low T was what caused my height, i'm 6'5'' - no one else in my family is anywhere near that tall. She inspected my knackers and compared them to a string of wooden knackers to see if they were normal! I had to stop the T gel for 6 months for my body to reset so they could get a baseline test of everything. They were trying to identify what the cause of my low T was. After that I was then put back on the gel.
At the time I asked about lifting weights and naturally raising T. She dismissed it. There is some evidence that lifting weights can raise levels slightly but this is assuming your body is working correctly to start with, and mine isn't. I had an MRI scan on my pituitary glad, which is like the control center for the endocrine glands. that was fine.
If you need TRT you will need it for life. I will have to put gel on everyday forever! It will change your body. Excuse the over-share but my testiclay are noticeably smaller. I think if you did stop your body recovers - unless you are an abuser of them and permanently damage something.
If you have no symptoms I don't think any Dr will do anything - private might if they can make some money may be. As an aside I also have some wild thyroid readings on my blood tests but with no symptoms the endo said they would monitor with 6 monthly tests but wont treat without symptoms. Bear in mind with my problems there was history of having symptoms for years and had been prescribed dick pills in the past.
If I were you I wouldn't worry. Get a finger prick test done once a year and if its getting worse or you start getting symptoms then go back to the quack.
I have been on it for a few years. Feel much better, can get a woody without Viagra, mood has improved massively. Had no side effects from the treatment, other than dry skin where the gel goes on. Not noticed any difference in the gym or anything like that, but then I am being treated to get my levels up to normal, not to create a huge anabolic effect.
Regiment said:
Managed to get the paperwork from my blood test.
Only thing tested for in terms of hormones was Serum Testosterone level, which is 13.4nmol/L. The range is supposed to be 8.6-29.
Low end of the scale. The problem with these ranges is they are nothing more than an average set of values from a population obtained over time. They take no account of the fact that one person may feel 9 is low and another 14 is low. Similar for high end of the range. See a specialist/go private if you're not happy.Only thing tested for in terms of hormones was Serum Testosterone level, which is 13.4nmol/L. The range is supposed to be 8.6-29.
popeyewhite said:
Regiment said:
Managed to get the paperwork from my blood test.
Only thing tested for in terms of hormones was Serum Testosterone level, which is 13.4nmol/L. The range is supposed to be 8.6-29.
Low end of the scale. The problem with these ranges is they are nothing more than an average set of values from a population obtained over time. They take no account of the fact that one person may feel 9 is low and another 14 is low. Similar for high end of the range. See a specialist/go private if you're not happy.Only thing tested for in terms of hormones was Serum Testosterone level, which is 13.4nmol/L. The range is supposed to be 8.6-29.
I have similar, after using the gels I feel fine, back to normal and my level was 30 - very high according to the population scale but my endo says that's fine as she's not just looking at the analysis, but relying on my feedback too.
Darkslider said:
Be wary of mentioning that you lift to your GP though, they will immediately suspect steroid abuse and wash their hands of you according to most people's experiences.
.
Interesting to know..
I watched a Joe Rogan podcast recently and he saidf he;s been on TRT fr 10 years.
Made me curious on it
Halb said:
Darkslider said:
Be wary of mentioning that you lift to your GP though, they will immediately suspect steroid abuse and wash their hands of you according to most people's experiences.
.
Interesting to know..
I watched a Joe Rogan podcast recently and he saidf he;s been on TRT fr 10 years.
Made me curious on it
popeyewhite said:
Halb said:
Darkslider said:
Be wary of mentioning that you lift to your GP though, they will immediately suspect steroid abuse and wash their hands of you according to most people's experiences.
.
Interesting to know..
I watched a Joe Rogan podcast recently and he saidf he;s been on TRT fr 10 years.
Made me curious on it
Since I've moved towns they've been much better.
They still ask if I take all the time, I don't think they believe I can be as big as I am without although I think they're just trying to be funny and it goes straight over my head
But, they are really cool about it and said they'd monitor me if I do take and still monitor me now just for general health.
popeyewhite said:
Good find. People who lift can incur heart problems without any help from excess anabolics.
My liver results were high which explained why I felt crap overall, had repeat blood tests every 8 weeks and reduced it massively to just out of normal range and noticed big improvement overall.They've been really helpful.
I have rented accommodation though so will be gutted to leave the area if I have to once I can get my own place.
smiffy180 said:
My liver results were high which explained why I felt crap overall, had repeat blood tests every 8 weeks and reduced it massively to just out of normal range and noticed big improvement overall.
They've been really helpful.
I have rented accommodation though so will be gutted to leave the area if I have to once I can get my own place.
I discovered I had low bilirubin levels as a result of a requested (by me) GP blood test. I wasn't particularly feeling bad but the doctor was surprised I wasn't a bit yellow (jaundice). Took vit b12 and 4 months later another GP test showed normal levels.You're right it's very handy having a GP on your side.They've been really helpful.
I have rented accommodation though so will be gutted to leave the area if I have to once I can get my own place.
Best of luck OP! My T levels came back as 7.0 / 202 which on the scale means I'm below a 100 year old!! Turned out I have a pituitary tumour which could be linked to the low T. I've paid privately to try and get this sorted out but am struggling, it seems that Testosterone Therapy in the UK isn't very advanced and my own surgery refused to administer my medication (Nebido) as "You may have a heart attack!". As for monitoring Estrogen, they look at me blankly.
For the record I'm early 40s and in relatively good shape. I did ask the surgery if they to HRT for women, which they do, sadly being male puts you at a strong disadvantage.
For the record I'm early 40s and in relatively good shape. I did ask the surgery if they to HRT for women, which they do, sadly being male puts you at a strong disadvantage.
I had my T levels checked about 3 years ago and GP whilst agreeing to do bloods told me straight up even if my T levels were too low she would not prescribe any sort of HRT. Apparently its not considered a priority for men. I had mentioned I was starting gym training though.
Anyway I have a family member who is on permanent HRT for a far more serious and genetic condition and honestly, I'd avoid it if possible. Try the natural route first!
1. If you don't lift then start. Not the girly dumbbells either, learn to do the big compound lifts and do sets in the 5 to 8 rep range with heavy weight. Your body will up T levels if it needs to build muscle and compounds (especially dead lifts) will force it to.
2. If you fat/overweight/skinnyfat (Body fat >22%) then get that sorted too. Cleaning up the diet is essential for this as is #1 above. Dieting without exercise can lead to loss of lean mass. Being overweight actually reduces T and ups Estrogen too.
3. Sleep, 8 hours religiously. Bad sleep will stuff your T levels, gym recovery as that's when your body produces T and fixes stuff.
4. Stress - guaranteed to stuff everything if its not in check.
5. Sex - not sure of the science but it works.
I know that's a pretty tough lot to do, you'll probably find if you fix it you'll fix a lot more then your t levels! From my own personal transformation efforts over the last 3 years these are what I've found helped me the most.
Anyway I have a family member who is on permanent HRT for a far more serious and genetic condition and honestly, I'd avoid it if possible. Try the natural route first!
1. If you don't lift then start. Not the girly dumbbells either, learn to do the big compound lifts and do sets in the 5 to 8 rep range with heavy weight. Your body will up T levels if it needs to build muscle and compounds (especially dead lifts) will force it to.
2. If you fat/overweight/skinnyfat (Body fat >22%) then get that sorted too. Cleaning up the diet is essential for this as is #1 above. Dieting without exercise can lead to loss of lean mass. Being overweight actually reduces T and ups Estrogen too.
3. Sleep, 8 hours religiously. Bad sleep will stuff your T levels, gym recovery as that's when your body produces T and fixes stuff.
4. Stress - guaranteed to stuff everything if its not in check.
5. Sex - not sure of the science but it works.
I know that's a pretty tough lot to do, you'll probably find if you fix it you'll fix a lot more then your t levels! From my own personal transformation efforts over the last 3 years these are what I've found helped me the most.
Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff