Suicidal tendencies

[Dr Jekyll]

A workmate of my GF has apparently been dropping some worrying hints lately, he seems withdrawn and has stopped socialising but objectively seems to have a decent enough life. No one can see any real problem and he does seem physically healthy.

If someone becomes suicidal, I always assumed it was because they found life intolerable, the pain, physical or psychological, was too great for them to go on, could see no alternative etc etc.

But is it possible that someone with no close family and a plateauing career might just decide they've had enough? They can tolerate life, but if that's all they're doing might they decide it isn't worth bothering? The way you might give up a hobby because it just isn't fun anymore?

[WolfAir]

My uncle lived by himself for the best part of 30 odd years. Had a marriage once, broke down. Never worked a day (even though he claimed he had a PhD in petroleum engineering) up until around 3 years ago when he started work in a call centre. All the time he was unemployed he was fine. Came and went as he pleased. Has brothers and sisters but they are astranged.
He got remarried around 6 months ago and seemed very happy.
He was found face down in a lake in the middle of a park and none of us knew until 4 days later when police knocked on our door about a missing person enquiry.

My point is... if people are having these feelings regardless of what is happening outside they keep themselves very isolated and it is very difficult to know what they are thinking until it is too late.

[coldsnap]

Very good friend took his life very many years ago now, there was no indication at all as to what was about to happen, he wasn't isolated, he was giving away nothing and no one knew there was an issue until it was too late.

I don't think there is a pattern which fits all here.

[BuzzBravado]

Dr Jekyll said:

They can tolerate life, but if that's all they're doing might they decide it isn't worth bothering? The way you might give up a hobby because it just isn't fun anymore?

There are all different reasons and angles to it. The "tolerating life" part requires a lot energy and putting on a face, it is draining after a long time and when you find no joy (even hobbies) in anything at all then the void of death isn't scary and becomes something you think about a lot. Most people that do not suffer from mental issues have a rational mind to see that suicide is not an option. But for some with issues that are inescapable then suicide is the only way out.

The sttiest part of thinking about it and planning it is trying to find a way to minimize the effect it will have on those that you care about, but there isn't one. So you carry on a bit longer and its delayed for another day.

[MOBB]

BuzzBravado said:

There are all different reasons and angles to it. The "tolerating life" part requires a lot energy and putting on a face, it is draining after a long time and when you find no joy (even hobbies) in anything at all then the void of death isn't scary and becomes something you think about a lot. Most people that do not suffer from mental issues have a rational mind to see that suicide is not an option. But for some with issues that are inescapable then suicide is the only way out.

The sttiest part of thinking about it and planning it is trying to find a way to minimize the effect it will have on those that you care about, but there isn't one. So you carry on a bit longer and its delayed for another day.

Having had dark episodes over the years, that last paragraph especially just made me go cold....................spot on.

[Cotty]

Dr Jekyll said:

But is it possible that someone with no close family and a plateauing career might just decide they've had enough? They can tolerate life, but if that's all they're doing might they decide it isn't worth bothering? The way you might give up a hobby because it just isn't fun anymore?

I can see how that could happen

[anonymous-user]

Get them to call the Samaritans. My wife volunteers for them and they do an excellent job. Sometimes just sharing problems with someone who won't judge them can make the world of difference.

[battered]

As someone else said, there's no one size fits all. It may not be entirely rational. In the same way that there's not just one reason for, say, crime or addiction. There may not be a logic to it at all.

[TheJimi]

Cotty said:

Dr Jekyll said:

But is it possible that someone with no close family and a plateauing career might just decide they've had enough? They can tolerate life, but if that's all they're doing might they decide it isn't worth bothering? The way you might give up a hobby because it just isn't fun anymore?

I can see how that could happen

Yep, me too.

Suicide can be rational, imo. I don't think there always has to be a big reason for suicide. As Dr J suggests, plenty people probably just think it isn't worth the hassle anymore and decide to call it a day. For many people, life is just that - hassle.

I can totally understand someone having enough of it all.

[Cotty]

TheJimi said:

I can totally understand someone having enough of it all.

Ha ha, its a good job I don't work in a tall building with a roof terrace ....DOH

[DukeDickson]

TheJimi said:

Cotty said:

Dr Jekyll said:

But is it possible that someone with no close family and a plateauing career might just decide they've had enough? They can tolerate life, but if that's all they're doing might they decide it isn't worth bothering? The way you might give up a hobby because it just isn't fun anymore?

I can see how that could happen

Yep, me too.

Suicide can be rational, imo. I don't think there always has to be a big reason for suicide. As Dr J suggests, plenty people probably just think it isn't worth the hassle anymore and decide to call it a day. For many people, life is just that - hassle.

I can totally understand someone having enough of it all.

It can be very rational, just for reasons that people aren't aware of, even those very close to the individual involved. That reason could be something that isn't immediately obvious or current, but could be very, very influential.
It may not be that life is a hassle all round, just that certain elements are too far over & above the tolerable (for the individual).

This is, of course, not going into the serious depression element, just a certain string of those who might/do.

[227bhp]

When the light at the end of the tunnel has been extinguished there can be a feeling there is nothing else to do.

[Wildfire]

Having known some people with serious depression, sometimes it can be the people who show no outward symptoms. They can seem fine and have no real reasons for feeling down (good life, job, friends etc.), seeming like there is no reason doesn't mean all is ok.

Part of that bottling it up doesn't help and then one day, they have just had enough and can't take it any longer, there's no more capacity and they just give up. As said in a previous post, just going on is a lot of hassle.

If someone does show any symptoms it is good to try and help and not get frustrated, gentle help and support can do wonders. Advice such as "just stop being negative and look on the bright side, other people have it worse etc." really don't help. Listening to someone without prejudice can do wonders.

A friend of mine works for the Samaritans and they do an amazing job of helping people. Very proud of her.

[anonymous-user]

Dr Jekyll said:

A workmate of my GF has apparently been dropping some worrying hints lately, he seems withdrawn and has stopped socialising but objectively seems to have a decent enough life. No one can see any real problem and he does seem physically healthy.

If someone becomes suicidal, I always assumed it was because they found life intolerable, the pain, physical or psychological, was too great for them to go on, could see no alternative etc etc.

But is it possible that someone with no close family and a plateauing career might just decide they've had enough? They can tolerate life, but if that's all they're doing might they decide it isn't worth bothering? The way you might give up a hobby because it just isn't fun anymore?

I think that is the biggest misconception about mental health issues that someone with money or having a beautiful wife and children means they will not have these thoughts.

Mental health will strike anyone just like cancer. Many sufferers will give no indication of any issues but they suddenly they take their own lives.

After having issues myself in the past I know help people with their own issues and class and wealth means nothing.

These people on the outside seem extremely confident and successful but as they state it is all an act. Inside they are lost or broken.

Just to give you an idea look at Gary Speed. Successful and seemed to have the perfect life yet he killed himself.

Whether you are rich or poor mental health does not care if it wants to consume you.

Hopefully the gentleman you know will attend a doctors appointment and get things progressing before he feels all hope is gone.

[DukeDickson]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Dr Jekyll said:

A workmate of my GF has apparently been dropping some worrying hints lately, he seems withdrawn and has stopped socialising but objectively seems to have a decent enough life. No one can see any real problem and he does seem physically healthy.

If someone becomes suicidal, I always assumed it was because they found life intolerable, the pain, physical or psychological, was too great for them to go on, could see no alternative etc etc.

But is it possible that someone with no close family and a plateauing career might just decide they've had enough? They can tolerate life, but if that's all they're doing might they decide it isn't worth bothering? The way you might give up a hobby because it just isn't fun anymore?

I think that is the biggest misconception about mental health issues that someone with money or having a beautiful wife and children means they will not have these thoughts.

Mental health will strike anyone just like cancer. Many sufferers will give no indication of any issues but they suddenly they take their own lives.

After having issues myself in the past I know help people with their own issues and class and wealth means nothing.

These people on the outside seem extremely confident and successful but as they state it is all an act. Inside they are lost or broken.

Just to give you an idea look at Gary Speed. Successful and seemed to have the perfect life yet he killed himself.

Whether you are rich or poor mental health does not care if it wants to consume you.

Hopefully the gentleman you know will attend a doctors appointment and get things progressing before he feels all hope is gone.

I'll refer to my earlier point. However much the perception of success, absolute or relative, is a 100% minefield.

Some people just do, that's their unfortunate dice, but a decent amount of others see no hope in the things they want. It could be a very normal want/need that they can't achieve, but could equally be a bit outside the norm, but central to the individual.

I could have as much money as Amancio Ortega, but it wouldn't cure the crap in my life, as a simple example.

[Mojooo]

The Roman Kemp docu on BBC iPlayer is worth a watching.

Essentially telling us what we already know I suppose, in that people find it hard to talk.

[br d]

I lost my partner of 28 years 5 weeks ago. She had been ill but we thought she was improving so it came as a complete shock.
I have spent the time since in some kind of bizarre shadow world. I've taken 5 straight weeks off of work, more time off than I have had in my whole working life. I haven't slept a full night or eaten a proper meal in all of that time. Due to Covid I was not present when she died, alone and afraid, and all the normal arrangements since have been difficult and frustrating.

To the point, suicidal thoughts.
In my whole life, in our whole lives, any thoughts of suicide would be alien, we never tired of each other or of our lives, both always working hard and enjoying to the full out time together. Since she died I see a completely different perspective.

When you are dealing with grief or depression all your normal thoughts and processes go out of the window, the world is not the same place anymore. However hard you try to remember or rationalise what is important to you it doesn't make any sense, it cannot make any sense. People are wonderful - if I take anything good from this awfulness it is how decent people around me are - but it still makes no sense.
Good advice, words of comfort and arms thrown around you while all welcome do not alter the feelings of complete despair that overwhelm you.

Of course, all these feelings are not exceptional to me, anybody coping with grief, loss, depression or trauma will be familiar with this stuff.

I did want to die, several times.
We never had children and I have a very small family, chiefly compromising of my 83 year old mother who I absolutely could not burden with my grief so I tried to "tough it out" by spending every night alone in the house we shared. The house that my partner designed, decorated, furnished and filled with the things she loved. This was, and still is a mistake that I would not recommend to anybody.

I could have gathered the right amount of pills, I could have climbed a high building or driven my car into a tree but all of these things require planning and execution, by the time I had organized any of this my brain would have overridden my despair and said "Is this really what she'd want?"

I cannot lie though, If i'd had a button on the back of my hand that said "Off" I would have pushed it. There have been at least 3 or 4 occasions in my deepest despair in the early hours of the morning when I would have pushed that button.

I used to consider suicide an easy way out, a cheat, something people did rather than face what life has thrown at them. I have had many challenging times in my life and always stood up to them and got things sorted. I now realise this is completely subjective. What you or I can deal with is too much for somebody else, we can't put ourselves in their shoes or feel their pain so we shouldn't be so quick to judge.

It's very easy to look down into a hole but I've learned it's very much harder to look up from the depths of one.

[Derek Smith]

br d said:

I lost my partner of 28 years 5 weeks ago. She had been ill but we thought she was improving so it came as a complete shock.
I have spent the time since in some kind of bizarre shadow world. I've taken 5 straight weeks off of work, more time off than I have had in my whole working life. I haven't slept a full night or eaten a proper meal in all of that time. Due to Covid I was not present when she died, alone and afraid, and all the normal arrangements since have been difficult and frustrating.

To the point, suicidal thoughts.
In my whole life, in our whole lives, any thoughts of suicide would be alien, we never tired of each other or of our lives, both always working hard and enjoying to the full out time together. Since she died I see a completely different perspective.

When you are dealing with grief or depression all your normal thoughts and processes go out of the window, the world is not the same place anymore. However hard you try to remember or rationalise what is important to you it doesn't make any sense, it cannot make any sense. People are wonderful - if I take anything good from this awfulness it is how decent people around me are - but it still makes no sense.
Good advice, words of comfort and arms thrown around you while all welcome do not alter the feelings of complete despair that overwhelm you.

Of course, all these feelings are not exceptional to me, anybody coping with grief, loss, depression or trauma will be familiar with this stuff.

I did want to die, several times.
We never had children and I have a very small family, chiefly compromising of my 83 year old mother who I absolutely could not burden with my grief so I tried to "tough it out" by spending every night alone in the house we shared. The house that my partner designed, decorated, furnished and filled with the things she loved. This was, and still is a mistake that I would not recommend to anybody.

I could have gathered the right amount of pills, I could have climbed a high building or driven my car into a tree but all of these things require planning and execution, by the time I had organized any of this my brain would have overridden my despair and said "Is this really what she'd want?"

I cannot lie though, If i'd had a button on the back of my hand that said "Off" I would have pushed it. There have been at least 3 or 4 occasions in my deepest despair in the early hours of the morning when I would have pushed that button.

I used to consider suicide an easy way out, a cheat, something people did rather than face what life has thrown at them. I have had many challenging times in my life and always stood up to them and got things sorted. I now realise this is completely subjective. What you or I can deal with is too much for somebody else, we can't put ourselves in their shoes or feel their pain so we shouldn't be so quick to judge.

It's very easy to look down into a hole but I've learned it's very much harder to look up from the depths of one.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

You have a serious illness. There's no solution available on the internet. Go see a doctor.

They will probably give you pills first of all. They worked for me, albeit slowly. I had a psychologist as well who helped me get a handle on what was wrong with me, but the pills were the thing.

You are not unusual. Many people react to trauma the way you have. The way I did.

I came out the other side and so can you.

It's the same as a broken leg. It can be treated. You might walk with a bit of a limp afterwards; I do so to speak, but I'm cured.

Please seek help.

If you want to PM me, only too pleased. But a doctor is better, much better.

Best of luck.

[happie33]

listen to derek
well said sir
and thank you 🙏

[popeyewhite]

BuzzBravado said:

Dr Jekyll said:

The sttiest part of thinking about it and planning it is trying to find a way to minimize the effect it will have on those that you care about, but there isn't one. So you carry on a bit longer and its delayed for another day.

Suicide ruins the lives of those left behind. A person may think they are ending all their pain, but the reality is if you kill yourself you're just starting huge pain for others. If you've reached the stage of planning then you need to see a Doctor, asap. Remember depression is an illness, there's no shame at all in seeking help. If you can't bring yourself to visit a Doctor then get some counselling/therapy: you may find talking things through with someone qualified and non-judgemental very liberating and rewarding.