Discussion
I run a cycle a fair amount, and do a little lifting (but not too much).
I'm around 170lbs. Reasonably lean, ok shape - nothing spectacular.
Started a creatine loading phase last wed, ending today. The (physical) effects have been immediate, both good and bad, but what's really stood out is my mood...
It's shot through the roof! Not just the extra energy, but all kinds of change.
Anyone else experienced anything similar? Everyone I've spoken to seems to think it's just a muscle enhancer.
I'm around 170lbs. Reasonably lean, ok shape - nothing spectacular.
Started a creatine loading phase last wed, ending today. The (physical) effects have been immediate, both good and bad, but what's really stood out is my mood...
It's shot through the roof! Not just the extra energy, but all kinds of change.
Anyone else experienced anything similar? Everyone I've spoken to seems to think it's just a muscle enhancer.
chrisobrien54 said:
I run a cycle a fair amount, and do a little lifting (but not too much).
I'm around 170lbs. Reasonably lean, ok shape - nothing spectacular.
Started a creatine loading phase last wed, ending today. The (physical) effects have been immediate, both good and bad, but what's really stood out is my mood...
It's shot through the roof! Not just the extra energy, but all kinds of change.
Anyone else experienced anything similar? Everyone I've spoken to seems to think it's just a muscle enhancer.
i take creatine the only bad effect i ever got was raised heart beat but not for long keep with it and train hard I'm around 170lbs. Reasonably lean, ok shape - nothing spectacular.
Started a creatine loading phase last wed, ending today. The (physical) effects have been immediate, both good and bad, but what's really stood out is my mood...
It's shot through the roof! Not just the extra energy, but all kinds of change.
Anyone else experienced anything similar? Everyone I've spoken to seems to think it's just a muscle enhancer.
I use creatine sometimes, its cheap and is one of the only supplements that has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to work.
I think its very difficult to understand if it actually works. So for me I find I can manage a little more weight or do extra reps using creatine. However you cannot rule out the placebo effect, i.e. I think I can do more so I do more.
I don't notice any mood altering effects.
I think its very difficult to understand if it actually works. So for me I find I can manage a little more weight or do extra reps using creatine. However you cannot rule out the placebo effect, i.e. I think I can do more so I do more.
I don't notice any mood altering effects.
I use it when I'm at one of those phases when I'm doing over 3 sets of phys a day. Just seems to give me a little extra energy to do the last session properly and not fall asleep on my bike when I cycle home.
No mood swings with me, although it's entirely possible that you're getting them as a placebo effect as most medication would include headache, nausea, mood swings on their side effects, virtually all due to the placebo effect.
No mood swings with me, although it's entirely possible that you're getting them as a placebo effect as most medication would include headache, nausea, mood swings on their side effects, virtually all due to the placebo effect.
(my paraphrasing of) The Science: Creatine is used to bind with Phosphorus to create Phospho-Creatine (PC), your primary fuel source for your muscles which has highly energetic bonds that activate and translate into muscle contractions very quickly wihtout the need for Oxygen. You only have the physical room in your muscles for a certain about of creatine - usually enough for about 10 seconds of work, then it is gone and has to be resynthesized by your Liver. This takes around 20 minutes or more, providing you have the raw ingredients in your Liver - mostly found from red meats (another animals muscles which had a a store of Creatine!).
Overloading on Creatine by supplementation maxes out your muscles stores, but you can only cram enough in for around 12 seconds work. The rest will be attempted to be stored by your Liver, or excreted. It translates to about 2 more reps, of your first set, only. If you want to use Creatine pre-gym, then your first set on each muscle needs to be your highest intensity. Taking a first set easily won't help make the PC last. No0one has this level of control. If you are using any amount of explosive contractions, even at say 50% of your ability, you will use up your PC stores. A very light mobility exercise is about as good as it gets for retaining your PC stores.
Loading up on Creatine after gym work outs tend to make your muscles swell as the Creatine goes in and with it, water. Water is the main body that supports the PC molecules. Extra size gained through Creatine tends to be in water retention, than muscle bulk. Once you stop loading on Creatine, the bulk tends to dissipate. What you should be left with however, is a bit more Myosin protein, or the activation proteins of muscle fibres = bigger/stronger muscles.
Loading too much Creatine or too much of anything, will put your body out of hormesis (balance) and will almost certainly create weird and undesireable effects.
Overloading on Creatine by supplementation maxes out your muscles stores, but you can only cram enough in for around 12 seconds work. The rest will be attempted to be stored by your Liver, or excreted. It translates to about 2 more reps, of your first set, only. If you want to use Creatine pre-gym, then your first set on each muscle needs to be your highest intensity. Taking a first set easily won't help make the PC last. No0one has this level of control. If you are using any amount of explosive contractions, even at say 50% of your ability, you will use up your PC stores. A very light mobility exercise is about as good as it gets for retaining your PC stores.
Loading up on Creatine after gym work outs tend to make your muscles swell as the Creatine goes in and with it, water. Water is the main body that supports the PC molecules. Extra size gained through Creatine tends to be in water retention, than muscle bulk. Once you stop loading on Creatine, the bulk tends to dissipate. What you should be left with however, is a bit more Myosin protein, or the activation proteins of muscle fibres = bigger/stronger muscles.
Loading too much Creatine or too much of anything, will put your body out of hormesis (balance) and will almost certainly create weird and undesireable effects.
Cheers for the replies, fellas.
Just a quick note: these aren't mood swings at all, and not entirely undesirable. Actually feeling great! Could crash I suppose, but we'll see.
Re: the placebo effect. I'm not a particularly suggestible person, and didn't anticipate the effects I've noticed. That said, I'll not rule it out
Biked into work this morning about 20 minutes quicker than I usually would.... Last night lifted heavier with more reps than I have done before... Placebo or not, it has worked!!!
Just a quick note: these aren't mood swings at all, and not entirely undesirable. Actually feeling great! Could crash I suppose, but we'll see.
Re: the placebo effect. I'm not a particularly suggestible person, and didn't anticipate the effects I've noticed. That said, I'll not rule it out
Biked into work this morning about 20 minutes quicker than I usually would.... Last night lifted heavier with more reps than I have done before... Placebo or not, it has worked!!!
I used creatine a lot when I wasplaying a lot of rugby and spending most of my life in the gym 10-15 years ago.
I wish I'd never gone near it.
It worked, oh yes it worked. I packed on huge amounts of lean muscle mass. My strength and endurance went through the roof. I ended up at around 19st with less than 13 per cent body fat. I had limitless energy. And then things started to go wrong.
The main thing that I started to find was connective tissue injuries. Ligament and tendon tears. It started off as a small problem and rapidly became a very big one. Essentially what I discovered was that the ligaments and tendons weren't strengthened at the same rate as the muscles and couldn't cope with the loads I was putting through them. As a result I started getting more frequent injuries and the injuries became ever more serious.
This soon meant that I couldn't sustain training at a level that I had become used to and this seriously negatively affected my mood, because I couldn't get my endorphin fix. I ended up having to give up rugby completely after ripping my ankle ligaments out for the third time and then had to have a major operation that left me unable ever to run again, play any competitive sport at all or even put any load through the ankle whatsoever.
Have a look at this thread to see what my ankle looks like today. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I'm 44 and I'm knackered. I don't have a right ankle any more. At present it's questionable whether I'll be able to drive a car ever again. I'll never run, ride a bicycle or row ever again. It's doubtful how far I'll be able to walk or whether I'll be able to walk on uneven surfaces or steep slopes again. I've lost almost all my muscle bulk and I've got fat because I can't do any meaningful exercise at all. It isn't just the ankle - my other ankle, both knees and both shoulders are arthritic and pretty much permanently inflamed and painful. I find it hard to sleep at night. I live on painkillers. As a result of this my stomach is a complete mess and I suffer from acid reflux and have to take omeprazole to stop myself choking on my own stomach acids when I sleep at night.
Oh, and for the last three or four years I'm in constant pain from my kidneys too. Tests show that my kidney function is way below what is normal. Apparently this is very common from people who have used large quantities of creatine over a period of a few years.
Seriously, don't take creatine. It f
ks you up. Eat a high protein diet and work as hard as you can. You'll get most of the benefit and you won't ruin yourself in the process.
I wish I'd never gone near it.
It worked, oh yes it worked. I packed on huge amounts of lean muscle mass. My strength and endurance went through the roof. I ended up at around 19st with less than 13 per cent body fat. I had limitless energy. And then things started to go wrong.
The main thing that I started to find was connective tissue injuries. Ligament and tendon tears. It started off as a small problem and rapidly became a very big one. Essentially what I discovered was that the ligaments and tendons weren't strengthened at the same rate as the muscles and couldn't cope with the loads I was putting through them. As a result I started getting more frequent injuries and the injuries became ever more serious.
This soon meant that I couldn't sustain training at a level that I had become used to and this seriously negatively affected my mood, because I couldn't get my endorphin fix. I ended up having to give up rugby completely after ripping my ankle ligaments out for the third time and then had to have a major operation that left me unable ever to run again, play any competitive sport at all or even put any load through the ankle whatsoever.
Have a look at this thread to see what my ankle looks like today. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I'm 44 and I'm knackered. I don't have a right ankle any more. At present it's questionable whether I'll be able to drive a car ever again. I'll never run, ride a bicycle or row ever again. It's doubtful how far I'll be able to walk or whether I'll be able to walk on uneven surfaces or steep slopes again. I've lost almost all my muscle bulk and I've got fat because I can't do any meaningful exercise at all. It isn't just the ankle - my other ankle, both knees and both shoulders are arthritic and pretty much permanently inflamed and painful. I find it hard to sleep at night. I live on painkillers. As a result of this my stomach is a complete mess and I suffer from acid reflux and have to take omeprazole to stop myself choking on my own stomach acids when I sleep at night.
Oh, and for the last three or four years I'm in constant pain from my kidneys too. Tests show that my kidney function is way below what is normal. Apparently this is very common from people who have used large quantities of creatine over a period of a few years.
Seriously, don't take creatine. It f
ks you up. Eat a high protein diet and work as hard as you can. You'll get most of the benefit and you won't ruin yourself in the process.I'm sorry to hear about your problems but there is little chance Creatine caused any of that although it could be a contributing factor.
You mention eating a high protein diet, well that places as much strain on the kidneys as creatine may do.
As for ligaments and joints, that can be a problem regardless of if creatine is used. Its quite common for knowledgeable coaches to have their students train lightly for weeks/months at a time to allow the body to keep up. Kevin 'Skip' Hill is one of the most respected coaches out there and he advocates 'deloading' periods for this very purpose.
After all creatine isn't like a steriod, we are talking very minor increases in performance. If you gain 10% extra performance from creatine you'd be doing well.
Anyway I hope you can recover from your injuries.
Lee
You mention eating a high protein diet, well that places as much strain on the kidneys as creatine may do.
As for ligaments and joints, that can be a problem regardless of if creatine is used. Its quite common for knowledgeable coaches to have their students train lightly for weeks/months at a time to allow the body to keep up. Kevin 'Skip' Hill is one of the most respected coaches out there and he advocates 'deloading' periods for this very purpose.
After all creatine isn't like a steriod, we are talking very minor increases in performance. If you gain 10% extra performance from creatine you'd be doing well.
Anyway I hope you can recover from your injuries.
Lee
Jesus mate, sorry to hear.
Pleased I posted here as you get proper experience, rather than the bullst you read on Internet articles.
I really don't lift or train hard enough to ruin any ligaments in that way however yesterday I really did find my physical limit yet wanted, desperately wanted to keep going... The energy was there but the body was weak! Figured that's the time to stop before breaking something.
Thanks again for the reply, will take it easy after reading this.
Pleased I posted here as you get proper experience, rather than the bulls
t you read on Internet articles.I really don't lift or train hard enough to ruin any ligaments in that way however yesterday I really did find my physical limit yet wanted, desperately wanted to keep going... The energy was there but the body was weak! Figured that's the time to stop before breaking something.
Thanks again for the reply, will take it easy after reading this.
Ordinary_Chap said:
I'm sorry to hear about your problems but there is little chance Creatine caused any of that although it could be a contributing factor.
You mention eating a high protein diet, well that places as much strain on the kidneys as creatine may do.
As for ligaments and joints, that can be a problem regardless of if creatine is used. Its quite common for knowledgeable coaches to have their students train lightly for weeks/months at a time to allow the body to keep up. Kevin 'Skip' Hill is one of the most respected coaches out there and he advocates 'deloading' periods for this very purpose.
After all creatine isn't like a steriod, we are talking very minor increases in performance. If you gain 10% extra performance from creatine you'd be doing well.
Anyway I hope you can recover from your injuries.
Lee
^^^ ThisYou mention eating a high protein diet, well that places as much strain on the kidneys as creatine may do.
As for ligaments and joints, that can be a problem regardless of if creatine is used. Its quite common for knowledgeable coaches to have their students train lightly for weeks/months at a time to allow the body to keep up. Kevin 'Skip' Hill is one of the most respected coaches out there and he advocates 'deloading' periods for this very purpose.
After all creatine isn't like a steriod, we are talking very minor increases in performance. If you gain 10% extra performance from creatine you'd be doing well.
Anyway I hope you can recover from your injuries.
Lee
chrisobrien54 said:
The energy was there but the body was weak! Figured that's the time to stop before breaking something.
Wasn't this covered on the BBC thing about getting fit in just 3 minutes? It's just your brain being over protective of your limbs / muscles and fooling you into thinking you need to stop. In reality, your muscles could have gone on longer than your brain was prepared to let them.didelydoo said:
Some serious over estimation of Creatine in this thread. It does help a bit, possibly. But TBH, the effects won't be particularly noticeable in the gym(other than slight water retention initially)
However, it's cheap, so why not.
Totally agree. I take it. Its doesn't make a big difference. Perhaps it helps push out and extra rep or 2. I don't have any side effects other then pissing like a race horse! No real water retention either. (unfortunately!)However, it's cheap, so why not.
Bolognese said:
Totally agree. I take it. Its doesn't make a big difference. Perhaps it helps push out and extra rep or 2. I don't have any side effects other then pissing like a race horse! No real water retention either. (unfortunately!)
Weird you should say that because I've seen a major difference in energy. I've been in a routine for months now, so know my limits / expected gains and I've literally found myself asking 'should I not be tired by now?' and powering on!I am particularly sensitive to caffeine, in coffee or cola. Perhaps that's just how i react to these things?
UncleRic said:
Wasn't this covered on the BBC thing about getting fit in just 3 minutes? It's just your brain being over protective of your limbs / muscles and fooling you into thinking you need to stop. In reality, your muscles could have gone on longer than your brain was prepared to let them.
Yeah I read that article. The whole 'knackered but somehow managed a sprint at the end thing'?Probably, but I'm happy to let my brain take charge over my ego ; )
didelydoo said:
Some serious over estimation of Creatine in this thread. It does help a bit, possibly. But TBH, the effects won't be particularly noticeable in the gym(other than slight water retention initially)
However, it's cheap, so why not.
This, do not notice much difference at all myself, maybe slightly more endurance when going for heavy sets, do not even notice any weight gain or water retention (Creatine mono-hydrate).However, it's cheap, so why not.
A mate takes it in a pre-workout shake and claims he feels "buzzing" a complete placebo and makes me laugh!!
Only supplements I rate myself for actually feeling them is ZMA (and Horlicks) for amazing sleeps and obviously caffeine for energy.
I bought some of this to take before I go to the gym. I'm not sure if it's the Creatine in it or or something else, but I feel absolutely 'wired' after I've had time to digest it and I can definitely do more during my workout. The only negative effect I've noticed is that if I don't leave long enough (at least 90 minutes) between drinking it and starting my workout I feel very nauseous.
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