Divorce Petition advice please
Discussion
We are nearing the end of my public(PH) collapse of my marriage and this is the final instalment.....
She is the Petitioner and I am the respondent, the divorce is at her want and I wasn't a bad boy so no "unreasonable behaviour" and we are doing "two years separation/marriage broken down." I received the petition yesterday and have a couple of issues and would like some advice/experiences please.
The divorce is about as straight forward as it can be - no kids, assets already split and covered in a legal separation agreement. As I understand it, the court costs will be about £350 but she has decided to get a solicitor to "do all the paperwork for her" as it seems easier to get someone else to do your moral dirty washing - all for about £1500 (how much?????? someone is having a laugh, I digress)
Section 7 of the form says "Even if you do not intend to defend the case do you object to paying the costs of the proceedings? If so, on what grounds?" There are some guidence notes that say if you say yes you have to attend before the Judge to pursue your objection.
It then goes on to say "If you are ordered to pay costs, the amount will, unless agreed between the petitioner and yourself, be fixed by the court or will be settled by the court after lodgement of the petitioners bill of costs.........and will have the right to be heard about the amount before it is finally settled."
WTF?
Are they talking about the £350, the £1500 or all plus some? Let's be clear about this, she wants the divorce, has said she will pay for it as it is "what she wants" but that is just verbal and I have lost all trust in her, and especially some of the legal profession.
This is all a bit scary and a bit of googling found this...
I am doing some other trawling but any advice would be appreciatied, how do I make sure she pays all the costs?
She is the Petitioner and I am the respondent, the divorce is at her want and I wasn't a bad boy so no "unreasonable behaviour" and we are doing "two years separation/marriage broken down." I received the petition yesterday and have a couple of issues and would like some advice/experiences please.
The divorce is about as straight forward as it can be - no kids, assets already split and covered in a legal separation agreement. As I understand it, the court costs will be about £350 but she has decided to get a solicitor to "do all the paperwork for her" as it seems easier to get someone else to do your moral dirty washing - all for about £1500 (how much?????? someone is having a laugh, I digress)
Section 7 of the form says "Even if you do not intend to defend the case do you object to paying the costs of the proceedings? If so, on what grounds?" There are some guidence notes that say if you say yes you have to attend before the Judge to pursue your objection.
It then goes on to say "If you are ordered to pay costs, the amount will, unless agreed between the petitioner and yourself, be fixed by the court or will be settled by the court after lodgement of the petitioners bill of costs.........and will have the right to be heard about the amount before it is finally settled."
WTF?
Are they talking about the £350, the £1500 or all plus some? Let's be clear about this, she wants the divorce, has said she will pay for it as it is "what she wants" but that is just verbal and I have lost all trust in her, and especially some of the legal profession.
This is all a bit scary and a bit of googling found this...
divorce chappie said:
It is worth explaining this in some detail because the normal rule in divorces involving unreasonable behaviour is that, unless there is agreement between the parties to the contrary, the courts order the Respondent to pay the whole of the divorce costs. Very often this is not what the parties themselves want and the fact that the Respondent may be ordered to pay the court costs is frequently a deterrent to returning the papers to the court quickly or at all. It is therefore frequently helpful for the subject of who is to pay what costs to be agreed at this point if it has not been agreed before.
Incidentally, it is normally unwise for a Respondent to return the Acknowledgment of Service (the document which the court requests be returned) without agreeing the subject of the costs. If one fails to do this the court makes the usual order that the Respondent do pay the divorce costs and it will be appreciated that when the Petitioner's solicitor submits a bill which he knows is not going to be paid by his own client there is a risk that the bill might be higher than it would have been had there been agreement. It is worth bearing this in mind.
Incidentally, it is normally unwise for a Respondent to return the Acknowledgment of Service (the document which the court requests be returned) without agreeing the subject of the costs. If one fails to do this the court makes the usual order that the Respondent do pay the divorce costs and it will be appreciated that when the Petitioner's solicitor submits a bill which he knows is not going to be paid by his own client there is a risk that the bill might be higher than it would have been had there been agreement. It is worth bearing this in mind.
I am doing some other trawling but any advice would be appreciatied, how do I make sure she pays all the costs?
I'm trying to think now what happened with my divorce.
From what I can recall, and being the respondant, I objected to paying any or all of the court costs (as this was not what was agreed). I didn't have to go to court or anything along those lines.
We didn't wait the 2yrs separation thing as we both wanted out as quick as possible. The house was sold and all profits split 50/50 before any paperwork for the divorce came through so it was pretty straight forward. I signed a declaration from his solicitor saying that I would not take anything regarding his pension, maintenance etc now or in years to come, and in return he would pay all the court costs.
The divorce took 2yrs to come through (mainly because it got thrown out of court the first time round) and I never went to court once, just signed the petition when it was sent through saying I did not object to a divorce.
Good luck with it all, it's not a fun act to have to go through even when you both are willing participants.
From what I can recall, and being the respondant, I objected to paying any or all of the court costs (as this was not what was agreed). I didn't have to go to court or anything along those lines.
We didn't wait the 2yrs separation thing as we both wanted out as quick as possible. The house was sold and all profits split 50/50 before any paperwork for the divorce came through so it was pretty straight forward. I signed a declaration from his solicitor saying that I would not take anything regarding his pension, maintenance etc now or in years to come, and in return he would pay all the court costs.
The divorce took 2yrs to come through (mainly because it got thrown out of court the first time round) and I never went to court once, just signed the petition when it was sent through saying I did not object to a divorce.
Good luck with it all, it's not a fun act to have to go through even when you both are willing participants.
IIRC,she (usually is isn't it?) can have you pay all her fees for the pleasure of being dumped (as well as the usual free house, free money for life etc that the British Judicial system believes is perfectly fair) when she feels it's time for a change of OH. HTH....bitter? No....Just a fellow victim.
HUW JONES said:
IIRC,she (usually is isn't it?) can have you pay all her fees for the pleasure of being dumped (as well as the usual free house, free money for life etc that the British Judicial system believes is perfectly fair) when she feels it's time for a change of OH. HTH....bitter? No....Just a fellow victim.
Is it? For every bloke that gets taken to the cleaners there are also a fair number of women that also end up on the receiving end as well...........also just a fellow victim........but female.I got taken to the "cleaners" all i had was the clothes that i was wearing and the car (and she wanted that)
I had done nothing but work my knads off just to have a nice house and things, then i'd found out that she had a affair with a guy 10 yrs younger than me cos"he was there for me"
We had two children together so in their best intrests i took a back seat.
She said the kids are happy with their new dad who was there all the time , huh!!
Haven't seen my children for 11 years now they must be adults now but still don't see them.
still don't know to this day what i really did wrong.
For you guys and girls divorcing with now kids thats fine but lossing them to someone else because all you did was work for them to have EVERY thing they wanted.then not to see them ....THAT HURTS
I had done nothing but work my knads off just to have a nice house and things, then i'd found out that she had a affair with a guy 10 yrs younger than me cos"he was there for me"
We had two children together so in their best intrests i took a back seat.
She said the kids are happy with their new dad who was there all the time , huh!!
Haven't seen my children for 11 years now they must be adults now but still don't see them.
still don't know to this day what i really did wrong.
For you guys and girls divorcing with now kids thats fine but lossing them to someone else because all you did was work for them to have EVERY thing they wanted.then not to see them ....THAT HURTS
coolcatmaz said:
I'm trying to think now what happened with my divorce.
I don't have that problem...it's all crystal clearI was shafted by the system, wives always win
I was shafted by the ex
I was shafted by the ex's solicitor
Who was also a part time judge
Who lied in an affidavit to freeze my bank account
For which she ought to have been jailed
But wasn't, because they close ranks and lie again
I was shafted by my solicitor's incompetence
The end...
Did I mention I was shafted..?
Me ------->
...BahEdited by mybrainhurts on Sunday 10th May 19:36
Mrs F says; I'm a divorce solicitor and must admit the £1500 seems a bit steep for simply filing the divorce paper work (you need to check if this inc VAT)
Basic rule is Respondent pays, whatever the 'fact'. With 2 yrs separation, you still need to CONSENT to the same so that is your leverage when discussing fees.
The Court costs are currently £300 for lodging the petition, £40 for Decree Absolute. Solicitors fees come into play for the drafting of the petition, affidavit and writing to the Court etc and in my experience (I am a Manchester City Centre lawyer so not inexpensive) should come in around £600 plus VAT.
It is true that before you return the acknowledgement it is best to sort out the costs and this is reflected accurately in that document. Therefore, when the Judge looks at the file to grant to Certificate of Entitlement to Decree, the costs issue is flagged up and shown to be resolved.
Usually, its agreed that all Court costs and solicitors fees are split equally but with an upper limit cap of say £450 all in, then if her solicitor goes over this limit, its the ex's issue, not yours. You DO NOT want to agree something open ended but equally, its worth paying for so the paper work is filed correctly.
Make any offer in writing direct to the lawyer and make sure it is written openly so that you can show it to a Judge if she ex won't agree and you end up at Court arguing about fees you will be shown to be reasonable and more likely to get an order on your favour.
Finally make sure a consent order for your finances is drafted which you will also need in spite of the separation agreement you have (the CO replaces the SA) The CO needs to be approved by a Judge and will dismiss all claims etc (you don't want to win the lottery and find she can still claim against you). This can only be lodged with the Court once your Decree Nisi has been made but you want it approved by the Judge prior to the making of the Decree Absolute as you may be entitled to certain tax advantages etc if done this way.
Basic rule is Respondent pays, whatever the 'fact'. With 2 yrs separation, you still need to CONSENT to the same so that is your leverage when discussing fees.
The Court costs are currently £300 for lodging the petition, £40 for Decree Absolute. Solicitors fees come into play for the drafting of the petition, affidavit and writing to the Court etc and in my experience (I am a Manchester City Centre lawyer so not inexpensive) should come in around £600 plus VAT.
It is true that before you return the acknowledgement it is best to sort out the costs and this is reflected accurately in that document. Therefore, when the Judge looks at the file to grant to Certificate of Entitlement to Decree, the costs issue is flagged up and shown to be resolved.
Usually, its agreed that all Court costs and solicitors fees are split equally but with an upper limit cap of say £450 all in, then if her solicitor goes over this limit, its the ex's issue, not yours. You DO NOT want to agree something open ended but equally, its worth paying for so the paper work is filed correctly.
Make any offer in writing direct to the lawyer and make sure it is written openly so that you can show it to a Judge if she ex won't agree and you end up at Court arguing about fees you will be shown to be reasonable and more likely to get an order on your favour.
Finally make sure a consent order for your finances is drafted which you will also need in spite of the separation agreement you have (the CO replaces the SA) The CO needs to be approved by a Judge and will dismiss all claims etc (you don't want to win the lottery and find she can still claim against you). This can only be lodged with the Court once your Decree Nisi has been made but you want it approved by the Judge prior to the making of the Decree Absolute as you may be entitled to certain tax advantages etc if done this way.
mybrainhurts said:
coolcatmaz said:
I'm trying to think now what happened with my divorce.
I don't have that problem...it's all crystal clearI was shafted by the system, wives always win
I was shafted by the ex
I was shafted by the ex's solicitor
Who was also a part time judge
Who lied in an affidavit to freeze my bank account
For which she ought to have been jailed
But wasn't, because they close ranks and lie again
I was shafted by my solicitor's incompetence
The end...
Did I mention I was shafted..?
Me ------->
...BahSounds not to dissimalar to my experience, after my divorce I decided to defend myself over my business issues etc, saved me a fortune in the end !
Edited by mybrainhurts on Sunday 10th May 19:36
Just to be clear, she wanted out of the marriage and to set a divorce in progress, grass is greener etc.
So, do I say no to question 7(as above) and send a covering letter?
I'm off to bed and not a very happy bunny.
coolcatmaz said:
I'm trying to think now what happened with my divorce.
From what I can recall, and being the respondant, I objected to paying any or all of the court costs (as this was not what was agreed). I didn't have to go to court or anything along those lines.
We didn't wait the 2yrs separation thing as we both wanted out as quick as possible. The house was sold and all profits split 50/50 before any paperwork for the divorce came through so it was pretty straight forward. I signed a declaration from his solicitor saying that I would not take anything regarding his pension, maintenance etc now or in years to come, and in return he would pay all the court costs.
The divorce took 2yrs to come through (mainly because it got thrown out of court the first time round) and I never went to court once, just signed the petition when it was sent through saying I did not object to a divorce.
Good luck with it all, it's not a fun act to have to go through even when you both are willing participants.
All the important parts of that are settled by the separation agreement - I thought once we had done that it would be enough and then just wait the 2 years. It's interesting what you say about your objection to fees.From what I can recall, and being the respondant, I objected to paying any or all of the court costs (as this was not what was agreed). I didn't have to go to court or anything along those lines.
We didn't wait the 2yrs separation thing as we both wanted out as quick as possible. The house was sold and all profits split 50/50 before any paperwork for the divorce came through so it was pretty straight forward. I signed a declaration from his solicitor saying that I would not take anything regarding his pension, maintenance etc now or in years to come, and in return he would pay all the court costs.
The divorce took 2yrs to come through (mainly because it got thrown out of court the first time round) and I never went to court once, just signed the petition when it was sent through saying I did not object to a divorce.
Good luck with it all, it's not a fun act to have to go through even when you both are willing participants.
Sheets Tabuer said:
From what I remember of my divorce these things are put in by the solicitors so they can bat letters back and forth and have sod all to do with the people divorcing 
Again, which is why we did the separation agreement as it was foolish to come to the same outcome via 2 lots of legal beagals.....Flog123 said:
Mrs F says; I'm a divorce solicitor and must admit the £1500 seems a bit steep for simply filing the divorce paper work (you need to check if this inc VAT)
Basic rule is Respondent pays, whatever the 'fact'. With 2 yrs separation, you still need to CONSENT to the same so that is your leverage when discussing fees.
The Court costs are currently £300 for lodging the petition, £40 for Decree Absolute. Solicitors fees come into play for the drafting of the petition, affidavit and writing to the Court etc and in my experience (I am a Manchester City Centre lawyer so not inexpensive) should come in around £600 plus VAT.
It is true that before you return the acknowledgement it is best to sort out the costs and this is reflected accurately in that document. Therefore, when the Judge looks at the file to grant to Certificate of Entitlement to Decree, the costs issue is flagged up and shown to be resolved.
Usually, its agreed that all Court costs and solicitors fees are split equally but with an upper limit cap of say £450 all in, then if her solicitor goes over this limit, its the ex's issue, not yours. You DO NOT want to agree something open ended but equally, its worth paying for so the paper work is filed correctly.
Make any offer in writing direct to the lawyer and make sure it is written openly so that you can show it to a Judge if she ex won't agree and you end up at Court arguing about fees you will be shown to be reasonable and more likely to get an order on your favour.
Finally make sure a consent order for your finances is drafted which you will also need in spite of the separation agreement you have (the CO replaces the SA) The CO needs to be approved by a Judge and will dismiss all claims etc (you don't want to win the lottery and find she can still claim against you). This can only be lodged with the Court once your Decree Nisi has been made but you want it approved by the Judge prior to the making of the Decree Absolute as you may be entitled to certain tax advantages etc if done this way.
Thanks, I need to let that sink in past the Merlot. I seems incredible that she was the one who changed her mind about our future, I did nothing wrong in the eyes of the law, she earns almost twice what I do and still lives in our old house whereas I had to move and I am the one who is normally expected to pick up the tab, especially as she has chosen to use an solicitor that wasn't required. I was just getting it all together and this has sent the whole lot into a spin again Basic rule is Respondent pays, whatever the 'fact'. With 2 yrs separation, you still need to CONSENT to the same so that is your leverage when discussing fees.
The Court costs are currently £300 for lodging the petition, £40 for Decree Absolute. Solicitors fees come into play for the drafting of the petition, affidavit and writing to the Court etc and in my experience (I am a Manchester City Centre lawyer so not inexpensive) should come in around £600 plus VAT.
It is true that before you return the acknowledgement it is best to sort out the costs and this is reflected accurately in that document. Therefore, when the Judge looks at the file to grant to Certificate of Entitlement to Decree, the costs issue is flagged up and shown to be resolved.
Usually, its agreed that all Court costs and solicitors fees are split equally but with an upper limit cap of say £450 all in, then if her solicitor goes over this limit, its the ex's issue, not yours. You DO NOT want to agree something open ended but equally, its worth paying for so the paper work is filed correctly.
Make any offer in writing direct to the lawyer and make sure it is written openly so that you can show it to a Judge if she ex won't agree and you end up at Court arguing about fees you will be shown to be reasonable and more likely to get an order on your favour.
Finally make sure a consent order for your finances is drafted which you will also need in spite of the separation agreement you have (the CO replaces the SA) The CO needs to be approved by a Judge and will dismiss all claims etc (you don't want to win the lottery and find she can still claim against you). This can only be lodged with the Court once your Decree Nisi has been made but you want it approved by the Judge prior to the making of the Decree Absolute as you may be entitled to certain tax advantages etc if done this way.
So, do I say no to question 7(as above) and send a covering letter?
I'm off to bed and not a very happy bunny.
[quote=tonyvid]Just to be clear, she wanted out of the marriage and to set a divorce in progress, grass is greener etc.
Just remember Nothings final, after it was settled in the high court mine came back twice, and both times she got more. I would love to meet her lawyer on a dark night!
Just remember Nothings final, after it was settled in the high court mine came back twice, and both times she got more. I would love to meet her lawyer on a dark night!
Edited by Adrian W on Monday 11th May 00:59
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