Free education - A right or a privilege?

[Kermit power]

We have free education in this country. It's generally considered one of those absolute rights that all should have, but where should we draw the line?

We went to Chessington today. It was the first day with all the rides open, so it was heaving. In one of the queues, there was a family behind me, with the son (around 13 or so at a guess) complaining about the length of said queues. His mother, absolutely seriously, agreed that the queues were bloody awful, and that they would just take the kids out of school one day to get the rides without the queues!

Why on earth are we paying taxes to provide that woman's family with an education, when that's her impression of the importance???

I would never want to see the day when free education isn't available to all who want it, but shouldn't the key be those who want it? Why do we spend lots of money desperately trying to keep truants in school, disrupting the education of those who do want to learn, only for this sort of attitude to be tolerated?

If someone doesn't want to learn, fine. fk 'em. Give them a couple of chances, maybe, then just pull the plug.

[BJG1]

Kids - given the choice - wouldn't go to school - nearly every single one of them. If a parent doesn't value education, it denies a child that education if school isn't compulsory, and that's unfair. The State prevent parents from gross negligence in many ways - and I believe stopping a parent denying their child an education is a necessity.

[Flanders.]

I don't know if I agree with this or not, but the current trend show's that people who don't go to school and get an education turn to crime. So I suppose it could cut down the crime stats?

[drivin_me_nuts]

it should be the birth right of everyone.

[Vixpy1]

drivin_me_nuts said:

it should be the birth right of everyone.

Apart from the welsh

[Kermit power]

BJG1 said:

Kids - given the choice - wouldn't go to school - nearly every single one of them. If a parent doesn't value education, it denies a child that education if school isn't compulsory, and that's unfair. The State prevent parents from gross negligence in many ways - and I believe stopping a parent denying their child an education is a necessity.

I totally agree, but how far do you take it? I suppose it depends to a degree on whether fecklessness is hereditary? If a parent is such a lost cause that they're willing to take their kids out of school just to avoid the queues at an amusement park, what are the chances of their kids being any better, regardless of the level of state intervention?

[Austin.J]

I last school just about 2 years ago, the last 2 years of school a few of us skived at least 2 lessons everyday without fail and fk me am i paying for it now, 1 of the blokes hasn't worked since we left and going on the dole, i'm working my arse off in a job which if i had decent grades would of made it a hell of alot easier. (wouldn't of been a temp for 6 month)

I know if i could go back to school and re-do it, i'd work my bks off and get decent grades then go to uni, everyone who thaught school was a "doss off" time now is either on the dole, or like me trying to work to get were i would of been if i had worked in school.

Edited by Austin.J on Sunday 22 March 22:01

[DIW35]

Vixpy1 said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

it should be the birth right of everyone.

Apart from the welsh

I thought racism was a big no-no on this forum!

[AJS-]

It depends how you define education. Perhaps the child is home schooled and spends most Sundays doing algebra? Probably not, but you never know.

I'm kind of contrary on this, I'm against it as a right because it devalues education in exactly the way you describe. On the other hand I don't like the idea of a bright kid suffering because his parents can't or won't send him to a good school.

The reality is that bright kids suffer all the time because however good you make state schools and "free" education, a lot still depends on the attitude of the parents and their own ability to help the child learn outside of school.

Perhaps some sort of system where continuing education is earned through achieving good results and showing a degree of motivation would work better. On the other hand it raises questions of how you measure those results and that motivation.

Also worth noting that it's not free just because we pay through taxes. We also pay through morgages, so parents with more money can move to areas with better state schools.

Given my anarcho-capitalist leanings I'm bound to say leave it up to people to decide fcr themselves without state intervention. I believe that charities, trusts and private schools would work out a better selection criteria than simply forcing everyone into lowest common denominator free schools.

[hairykrishna]

BJG1 said:

Kids - given the choice - wouldn't go to school - nearly every single one of them. If a parent doesn't value education, it denies a child that education if school isn't compulsory, and that's unfair. The State prevent parents from gross negligence in many ways - and I believe stopping a parent denying their child an education is a necessity.

This. Kids can't be trusted to make entirely sensible decisions. We as a society should do our best to protect the one whose parents can't either.

[Vixpy1]

DIW35 said:

Vixpy1 said:

drivin_me_nuts said:

it should be the birth right of everyone.

Apart from the welsh

I thought racism was a big no-no on this forum!

Its the welsh, they don't count

[AlexKP]

What would these kids be doing when they weren't in school?

[Austin.J]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Sat in the woods just next to school playing "basterd"/setting small fires/shouting at P.E teachers and playing on the tree swing in the woods.

[Kermit power]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

In the case of today's fine specimens, the answer would seem to be "going to Chessington with Mum & Dad."

[AlexKP]

Kermit power said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

In the case of today's fine specimens, the answer would seem to be "going to Chessington with Mum & Dad."

But the rest of the time they would be roaming the streets vandalising cars etc... surely?

[marshalla]

Austin.J said:

I last school just about 2 years ago, the last 2 years of school a few of us skived at least 2 lessons everyday without fail and fk me am i paying for it now, 1 of the blokes hasn't worked since we left and going on the dole, i'm working my arse off in a job which if i had decent grades would of made it a hell of alot easier. (wouldn't of been a temp for 6 month)

I know if i could go back to school and re-do it, i'd work my bks off and get decent grades then go to uni, everyone who thaught school was a "doss off" time now is either on the dole, or like me trying to work to get were i would of been if i had worked in school.

Edited by Austin.J on Sunday 22 March 22:01

[Negative Creep]

Come on, in their entire school lives did no one else's parents ever take them out of school for the odd day? My dad did a handful (note the use of the word 'handful') to get to a few football matches and once to watch the Tour de France. They believe in getting a good education and it never stopped me getting into uni

[NDA]

Educating our 'yoof' is surely investing in all of our futures?

I pay twice - once in my tax for the state places I don't use and secondly for school fees. It would be nice to have a tax rebate, but I'll live without one.

[AJS-]

Austin.J said:

I last left school just about 2 years ago, the last 2 years of school a few of us skived at least 2 lessons everyday without fail and fk me am i I (capital) paying for it now, ? (Question?) New sentence 1 One of the blokes is jobless and going on the dole, I'm working my arse off in a job which if I had decent grades would of have made it been a hell of a lot easier (wouldn't of have been a temp for 6 months - plural)

I know if I could go back to school and re-do it, I'd work my bks off and get decent grades then go to uni, New sentence Everyone who thaught thought school was a "doss off" time now is is now either on the dole, or like me trying to work to get where I would of have been if I had worked in school.

Call me a grammar nazi, but I believe you could greatly improve your employability by improving your grammar and spelling as per the corrections above, regardless of your GCSE results.

I left school with no GCSEs at all because I fked around royally, but I was fortunate enough to have supportive parents who valued education and backed me financially to go to college and later university, when I was a bit older and had perhaps learned some of the hard lessons you are learning at the moment.

I have also worked in recruitment, and I can think of no more sure fire way of making a bad impression than having glaring grammatical errors in your covering letter and CV. It's not like most recruitment consultants or HR people are grammar fanatics, as the advertisements testify, but the obvious ones will let you down.

[ianash]

Austin.J said:

I last school just about 2 years ago, the last 2 years of school a few of us skived at least 2 lessons everyday without fail and fk me am i paying for it now, 1 of the blokes hasn't worked since we left and going on the dole, i'm working my arse off in a job which if i had decent grades would of made it a hell of alot easier. (wouldn't of been a temp for 6 month)

I know if i could go back to school and re-do it, i'd work my bks off and get decent grades then go to uni, everyone who thaught school was a "doss off" time now is either on the dole, or like me trying to work to get were i would of been if i had worked in school.

Edited by Austin.J on Sunday 22 March 22:01

You seem to hold down a very responsible job, despite your claimed lack of academic achievement. What do you think you might have become if you had tried harder at school?

A lot of children/young adults who have gone to Uni, are now nursing significant debts and no immediate prospect of well paid employment.