Advice for the elderly/infirm
Discussion
We're getting to the point that my father needs a lot of care.
He currently lives in a town house and the stairs in particular are a worry. He's 92, very weak and frail, and already fallen down the stairs once, fracturing a vertebrae. He made a full recovery, but he was 'only' 80-odd then - and it took two weeks in hospital and 6-8 weeks for full mobility.
Yesterday I found him on the floor in his bedroom, unable to get up. He says it was 'only and hour or so', which really means several hours at least I'm sure.
He's quite stubborn and insists he doesn't need nor want help, and definitely doesn't want to move to a bungalow or into care.
There's a lot more to it, but my brother and I need to get some help and advice.
Where do we start? Is citizens advice useful in these circumstances, or is there more specialised services we need to contact?
He currently lives in a town house and the stairs in particular are a worry. He's 92, very weak and frail, and already fallen down the stairs once, fracturing a vertebrae. He made a full recovery, but he was 'only' 80-odd then - and it took two weeks in hospital and 6-8 weeks for full mobility.
Yesterday I found him on the floor in his bedroom, unable to get up. He says it was 'only and hour or so', which really means several hours at least I'm sure.
He's quite stubborn and insists he doesn't need nor want help, and definitely doesn't want to move to a bungalow or into care.
There's a lot more to it, but my brother and I need to get some help and advice.
Where do we start? Is citizens advice useful in these circumstances, or is there more specialised services we need to contact?
Would some conversion work, ie ramps handles etc help him?
When my mother was in her dotage still in her own home the district nurse togther with occupational health who came in noted officially that my mother was 'at risk', this following an earlier fall resulting in a broken hip, that triggered things and within days she'd had various grab handles fitted and a ramp at the back of her house smoothing out the steep steps.
She carried on there for several more years.
Can fully understand your father not wishing to leave his home, hopefully he won't have to, don't be surprised if he refuses to wear an electronic lanyard, some oldies can be a trifle stubborn, ahem.
When my mother was in her dotage still in her own home the district nurse togther with occupational health who came in noted officially that my mother was 'at risk', this following an earlier fall resulting in a broken hip, that triggered things and within days she'd had various grab handles fitted and a ramp at the back of her house smoothing out the steep steps.
She carried on there for several more years.
Can fully understand your father not wishing to leave his home, hopefully he won't have to, don't be surprised if he refuses to wear an electronic lanyard, some oldies can be a trifle stubborn, ahem.
I forgot to add that he is still living in his own home and had to go through a financial assessment.
He doesn’t have any saving as such, but has a decent pension and owns his own home outright.
If he needs to go into a home the authority should pay for it, but then may recoup the cost from any proceeds from the sale of his house when the time comes.
If he can stay at home, the council will either fully fund or part fund care costs but then wouldn’t look to recoup any costs from the house sale.
It’s a bloody minefield and it has taken nearly two years to get to a solution.
He doesn’t have any saving as such, but has a decent pension and owns his own home outright.
If he needs to go into a home the authority should pay for it, but then may recoup the cost from any proceeds from the sale of his house when the time comes.
If he can stay at home, the council will either fully fund or part fund care costs but then wouldn’t look to recoup any costs from the house sale.
It’s a bloody minefield and it has taken nearly two years to get to a solution.
Its a tricky one (always).
The best way is to move into a retirement living place whilst mobility isn't a big issue. They tend to have a decent community and can offer care when its needed. The design always minimises fall risk etc. The key thing is that these developments are not care homes, but enable independence for longer. Its still tricky to persuade people though. We had a big battle with my mum, but she now says its the best thing she could have done and that she and my dad (now passed) should have done it long before. (Example = Extracare Charitable Trust)
Unfortunately it may be a bit late for the Op's dad if he is falling regularly as his care need may exclude him. He definitely needs an assessment from the local care team and maybe (if possible) some remodelling of his house so he can live on one floor.
A fall pendant is a must., but preventing falls is the key. Once an elderly person has had a bad fall, and say broken a hip, their life expectancy becomes measured in months rather than years. My dad died within 14 months of his first bad fall. So Op, you need to focus on fall prevention and on support too. Is he taking care of himself, eg eating properly, drinking enough, washing. These are amongst the first signs of a big problem coming. They are also linked to loneliness and depression.
I know this doesn't help the op, but we really need to educate people on all of this. Staying in a house that was perfect when you had 10 year old kids, is rarely the right place when you are in your 80's and frailty is setting in. I am on a bit of a crusade on this, I have been closely involved with the extra care sector for 15 years now and can really see the benefits to peoples independence, quality of life and longevity. I often speak at conferences on the subject, I talk to residents and their families its very rare to hear anyone regret the choice of moving.
The best way is to move into a retirement living place whilst mobility isn't a big issue. They tend to have a decent community and can offer care when its needed. The design always minimises fall risk etc. The key thing is that these developments are not care homes, but enable independence for longer. Its still tricky to persuade people though. We had a big battle with my mum, but she now says its the best thing she could have done and that she and my dad (now passed) should have done it long before. (Example = Extracare Charitable Trust)
Unfortunately it may be a bit late for the Op's dad if he is falling regularly as his care need may exclude him. He definitely needs an assessment from the local care team and maybe (if possible) some remodelling of his house so he can live on one floor.
A fall pendant is a must., but preventing falls is the key. Once an elderly person has had a bad fall, and say broken a hip, their life expectancy becomes measured in months rather than years. My dad died within 14 months of his first bad fall. So Op, you need to focus on fall prevention and on support too. Is he taking care of himself, eg eating properly, drinking enough, washing. These are amongst the first signs of a big problem coming. They are also linked to loneliness and depression.
I know this doesn't help the op, but we really need to educate people on all of this. Staying in a house that was perfect when you had 10 year old kids, is rarely the right place when you are in your 80's and frailty is setting in. I am on a bit of a crusade on this, I have been closely involved with the extra care sector for 15 years now and can really see the benefits to peoples independence, quality of life and longevity. I often speak at conferences on the subject, I talk to residents and their families its very rare to hear anyone regret the choice of moving.
blueg33 said:
Staying in a house that was perfect when you had 10 year old kids, is rarely the right place when you are in your 80's and frailty is setting in. I am on a bit of a crusade on this, I have been closely involved with the extra care sector for 15 years now and can really see the benefits to peoples independence, quality of life and longevity. I often speak at conferences on the subject, I talk to residents and their families its very rare to hear anyone regret the choice of moving.
Not sure i agree entirely.It very much depends on each person.
In our case, it's dementia and moving a patient that has it fairly advanced can and does call all sorts of issues.
And that is from actual experience.
119 said:
blueg33 said:
Staying in a house that was perfect when you had 10 year old kids, is rarely the right place when you are in your 80's and frailty is setting in. I am on a bit of a crusade on this, I have been closely involved with the extra care sector for 15 years now and can really see the benefits to peoples independence, quality of life and longevity. I often speak at conferences on the subject, I talk to residents and their families its very rare to hear anyone regret the choice of moving.
Not sure i agree entirely.It very much depends on each person.
In our case, it's dementia and moving a patient that has it fairly advanced can and does call all sorts of issues.
And that is from actual experience.
The point I was making is that people need to move before these issues set in.
blueg33 said:
119 said:
blueg33 said:
Staying in a house that was perfect when you had 10 year old kids, is rarely the right place when you are in your 80's and frailty is setting in. I am on a bit of a crusade on this, I have been closely involved with the extra care sector for 15 years now and can really see the benefits to peoples independence, quality of life and longevity. I often speak at conferences on the subject, I talk to residents and their families its very rare to hear anyone regret the choice of moving.
Not sure i agree entirely.It very much depends on each person.
In our case, it's dementia and moving a patient that has it fairly advanced can and does call all sorts of issues.
And that is from actual experience.
The point I was making is that people need to move before these issues set in.
Have to say dementia is one hell of a f
ker.Good luck getting sorted OP.
119 said:
I forgot to add that he is still living in his own home and had to go through a financial assessment.
He doesn t have any saving as such, but has a decent pension and owns his own home outright.
If he needs to go into a home the authority should pay for it, but then may recoup the cost from any proceeds from the sale of his house when the time comes.
If he can stay at home, the council will either fully fund or part fund care costs but then wouldn t look to recoup any costs from the house sale.
It s a bloody minefield and it has taken nearly two years to get to a solution.
Put the house in a trust, quick.....He doesn t have any saving as such, but has a decent pension and owns his own home outright.
If he needs to go into a home the authority should pay for it, but then may recoup the cost from any proceeds from the sale of his house when the time comes.
If he can stay at home, the council will either fully fund or part fund care costs but then wouldn t look to recoup any costs from the house sale.
It s a bloody minefield and it has taken nearly two years to get to a solution.
119 said:
hurstg01 said:
Put the house in a trust, quick.....
Already done 15 years ago as he knew it was coming unfortunately.And he isn t even that old (66).
blueg33 said:
119 said:
hurstg01 said:
Put the house in a trust, quick.....
Already done 15 years ago as he knew it was coming unfortunately.And he isn t even that old (66).
We only noticed it when he started repeating himself.
He was stubborn and cantankerous when he was well, so you can just imagine how he is now.
Anyway, apols for the thread hijack op.
119 said:
hurstg01 said:
Put the house in a trust, quick.....
Already done 15 years ago as he knew it was coming unfortunately.And he isn t even that old (66).
jeremyc said:
Your local authority's Adult Social Care team should be willing to make an assessment of his needs and recommend appropriate action.
There is also the option of engaging one of the many private home care services to either visit or stay with him.
I've spoken to them this morning, but without his consent there's little they can do. There is also the option of engaging one of the many private home care services to either visit or stay with him.
My brother and I need to convince him to accept at least the assessment, if not their conclusions/recommendations. I think he's afraid they'll 'condemn' him to a home.
tjl said:
Start with a falls pendant that he can wear around his neck with a button that will connect him directly to emergency care team when pushed. Mum had one and used it when she fell and broke her hip. Some excellent providers out there.
He won't even have one of those. He says they're for old people in a state worse than him. FFS.He's pretty good at having his mobile and cordless phone with him at all (most) times, but he'd have to be at death's door before he'd call for help.
He's very much compos mentis, but cannot see or accept the risk he's taking even getting out of bed to taking the stairs.
I think my brother and I have to be very persuasive, and get him to accept help - that's the hardest part of it.
OP, I've been through this over the last 6 months when mum became terminally ill, she died a couple of weeks ago.
Get Social Care to organise an assessment by the district nurse supervisors of your dads needs whilst at home, they can provide equipment such as commodes, bed tables, bath seats etc free of charge, in our case it came from their contractor called Mediquip.
We got mum a stairlift which cost her £5k. By the time it was installed the district nurses said it was dangerous for her to use as mum was using a portable oxygen machine and the tubes could get caught. From that day on she had to live downstairs with a hospital bed provided for her living room, commodes, tables etc, and she soon became bed bound.
Our local council have a contract with City Wide Alarms who provided mum with a wrist band that together with a hub station plugged into her living room would detect a fall, and with a button she could press, this went straight through to the company who could speak to her directly via the hub, and had all our phone numbers on hand to contact us of needed, or they could send their pwn person round to help mum up from the floor.
If you need carers to visit your dad, depending on his circumstances you can get this paid for by the NHS, but it is a battle to get this and everyone will deny this can be done, even mums GP said there was no such service. After some persuasion we got her assessed and all of her carer visits were paid for ny the NHS, and she ended up needing 2 x carers visit her 6 times every 24hrs, which soon adds up £££££
If you need any advice on getting his care paid for, let me know.
Get Social Care to organise an assessment by the district nurse supervisors of your dads needs whilst at home, they can provide equipment such as commodes, bed tables, bath seats etc free of charge, in our case it came from their contractor called Mediquip.
We got mum a stairlift which cost her £5k. By the time it was installed the district nurses said it was dangerous for her to use as mum was using a portable oxygen machine and the tubes could get caught. From that day on she had to live downstairs with a hospital bed provided for her living room, commodes, tables etc, and she soon became bed bound.
Our local council have a contract with City Wide Alarms who provided mum with a wrist band that together with a hub station plugged into her living room would detect a fall, and with a button she could press, this went straight through to the company who could speak to her directly via the hub, and had all our phone numbers on hand to contact us of needed, or they could send their pwn person round to help mum up from the floor.
If you need carers to visit your dad, depending on his circumstances you can get this paid for by the NHS, but it is a battle to get this and everyone will deny this can be done, even mums GP said there was no such service. After some persuasion we got her assessed and all of her carer visits were paid for ny the NHS, and she ended up needing 2 x carers visit her 6 times every 24hrs, which soon adds up £££££
If you need any advice on getting his care paid for, let me know.
LordGrover said:
I think my brother and I have to be very persuasive, and get him to accept help - that's the hardest part of it.
This was our biggest problem with mum, e very time we identified some help she ended, such as stairlift, hospital bed etc she refused it. By the time she conceded she needed it, it was about a month too late. She refused a stairlift, but a few days later she realised she couldn't get up stairs anymore so conceded, as the stair lift needed a 90 degree bend it took 3 weeks to be made, and made the price jump from £1k for a straight stairlift, to £5k for the bendy one.By the time it was installed, she wasn't physically able to make use of it, so £5k totally wasted.If you ever need a stairlift and can get away with a straight one they can be rented from local mobility centres for about £50/week
She refused her bed being moved downstairs, until she realised she had no way of getting upstairs. She refused a hospital bed meaning the carers wouldn't visit her and they require her to have one, so it then took a week to get a hospital bed delivered.
She refused all help offered until it was too late which made our (her children) job of looking after her so very difficult, just because she wouldn't accept she needed the help.
The Gauge said:
OP, I've been through this over the last 6 months when mum became terminally ill, she died a couple of weeks ago.
Get Social Care to organise an assessment by the district nurse supervisors of your dads needs whilst at home, they can provide equipment such as commodes, bed tables, bath seats etc free of charge, in our case it came from their contractor called Mediquip.
We got mum a stairlift which cost her £5k. By the time it was installed the district nurses said it was dangerous for her to use as mum was using a portable oxygen machine and the tubes could get caught. From that day on she had to live downstairs with a hospital bed provided for her living room, commodes, tables etc, and she soon became bed bound.
Our local council have a contract with City Wide Alarms who provided mum with a wrist band that together with a hub station plugged into her living room would detect a fall, and with a button she could press, this went straight through to the company who could speak to her directly via the hub, and had all our phone numbers on hand to contact us of needed, or they could send their pwn person round to help mum up from the floor.
If you need carers to visit your dad, depending on his circumstances you can get this paid for by the NHS, but it is a battle to get this and everyone will deny this can be done, even mums GP said there was no such service. After some persuasion we got her assessed and all of her carer visits were paid for ny the NHS, and she ended up needing 2 x carers visit her 6 times every 24hrs, which soon adds up £££££
If you need any advice on getting his care paid for, let me know.
As the OP has said, without his consent there is very little they can do.Get Social Care to organise an assessment by the district nurse supervisors of your dads needs whilst at home, they can provide equipment such as commodes, bed tables, bath seats etc free of charge, in our case it came from their contractor called Mediquip.
We got mum a stairlift which cost her £5k. By the time it was installed the district nurses said it was dangerous for her to use as mum was using a portable oxygen machine and the tubes could get caught. From that day on she had to live downstairs with a hospital bed provided for her living room, commodes, tables etc, and she soon became bed bound.
Our local council have a contract with City Wide Alarms who provided mum with a wrist band that together with a hub station plugged into her living room would detect a fall, and with a button she could press, this went straight through to the company who could speak to her directly via the hub, and had all our phone numbers on hand to contact us of needed, or they could send their pwn person round to help mum up from the floor.
If you need carers to visit your dad, depending on his circumstances you can get this paid for by the NHS, but it is a battle to get this and everyone will deny this can be done, even mums GP said there was no such service. After some persuasion we got her assessed and all of her carer visits were paid for ny the NHS, and she ended up needing 2 x carers visit her 6 times every 24hrs, which soon adds up £££££
If you need any advice on getting his care paid for, let me know.
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