Discussion
Just wondering what others think of the situation facing my daughter.
I am British. Born and brought up in the UK, same as my parents/grandparents and great grandparents (don’t know about earlier).
In my thirties I got the chance to do a secondment abroad. We liked it and stayed for longer than planned so my daughter was born there. Even though she was born abroad, she was born British and she is still only British (she has never had another passport).
We returned to the UK when she was 9, mainly so that she could go to school in the UK, but for various reasons we decided to go abroad again when she was 16. When I say we I mean me. My daughter didn’t make that decision. We didn’t sell our house in the UK and are now back home and I’m working here again.
My daughter got into a British university and managed to get home fees. We had to persuade the university that she is ordinarily resident in the UK. That should be obvious because she is a British citizen and (since Brexit) she has no right to live anywhere else in the world except in the UK.
Although her university has accepted she is ordinarily resident the Student Loan Company has not. She is stuck in a bureaucratic nightmare with them. She applied back in August of last year and it took them months for them to even respond and they keep asking for more documents to prove she is ordinarily resident. Mostly really stupid things like “proof from her employment contract that her position abroad was temporary”. There doesn’t seem any way of forcing them to make a decision and their foot dragging means that if I didn’t have enough money to pay for her education she would have been thrown off her course.
There is no way that she would be able to go to university without funding and I doubt any third party would lend her enough to get through university. She has a chronic illness so working enough to pay for her course and studying full time would also be difficult.
My understanding is that if you are not British but have a right to remain in the UK and have been resident in the UK the three years before the course starting then you are eligible for a loan. It seems fundamentally unfair for my daughter who is British and is being penalised just because I worked overseas.
Your thoughts?
I am British. Born and brought up in the UK, same as my parents/grandparents and great grandparents (don’t know about earlier).
In my thirties I got the chance to do a secondment abroad. We liked it and stayed for longer than planned so my daughter was born there. Even though she was born abroad, she was born British and she is still only British (she has never had another passport).
We returned to the UK when she was 9, mainly so that she could go to school in the UK, but for various reasons we decided to go abroad again when she was 16. When I say we I mean me. My daughter didn’t make that decision. We didn’t sell our house in the UK and are now back home and I’m working here again.
My daughter got into a British university and managed to get home fees. We had to persuade the university that she is ordinarily resident in the UK. That should be obvious because she is a British citizen and (since Brexit) she has no right to live anywhere else in the world except in the UK.
Although her university has accepted she is ordinarily resident the Student Loan Company has not. She is stuck in a bureaucratic nightmare with them. She applied back in August of last year and it took them months for them to even respond and they keep asking for more documents to prove she is ordinarily resident. Mostly really stupid things like “proof from her employment contract that her position abroad was temporary”. There doesn’t seem any way of forcing them to make a decision and their foot dragging means that if I didn’t have enough money to pay for her education she would have been thrown off her course.
There is no way that she would be able to go to university without funding and I doubt any third party would lend her enough to get through university. She has a chronic illness so working enough to pay for her course and studying full time would also be difficult.
My understanding is that if you are not British but have a right to remain in the UK and have been resident in the UK the three years before the course starting then you are eligible for a loan. It seems fundamentally unfair for my daughter who is British and is being penalised just because I worked overseas.
Your thoughts?
Skeptisk said:
Just wondering what others think of the situation facing my daughter.
I am British. Born and brought up in the UK, same as my parents/grandparents and great grandparents (don’t know about earlier).
In my thirties I got the chance to do a secondment abroad. We liked it and stayed for longer than planned so my daughter was born there. Even though she was born abroad, she was born British and she is still only British (she has never had another passport).
We returned to the UK when she was 9, mainly so that she could go to school in the UK, but for various reasons we decided to go abroad again when she was 16. When I say we I mean me. My daughter didn’t make that decision. We didn’t sell our house in the UK and are now back home and I’m working here again.
My daughter got into a British university and managed to get home fees. We had to persuade the university that she is ordinarily resident in the UK. That should be obvious because she is a British citizen and (since Brexit) she has no right to live anywhere else in the world except in the UK.
Although her university has accepted she is ordinarily resident the Student Loan Company has not. She is stuck in a bureaucratic nightmare with them. She applied back in August of last year and it took them months for them to even respond and they keep asking for more documents to prove she is ordinarily resident. Mostly really stupid things like “proof from her employment contract that her position abroad was temporary”. There doesn’t seem any way of forcing them to make a decision and their foot dragging means that if I didn’t have enough money to pay for her education she would have been thrown off her course.
There is no way that she would be able to go to university without funding and I doubt any third party would lend her enough to get through university. She has a chronic illness so working enough to pay for her course and studying full time would also be difficult.
My understanding is that if you are not British but have a right to remain in the UK and have been resident in the UK the three years before the course starting then you are eligible for a loan. It seems fundamentally unfair for my daughter who is British and is being penalised just because I worked overseas.
Your thoughts?
I don’t know the rules, but as they recoup the loan from future UK earnings, I can see why they would need to check that there is at least some chance of something being repaid from someone who doesn’t have a long residence history.I am British. Born and brought up in the UK, same as my parents/grandparents and great grandparents (don’t know about earlier).
In my thirties I got the chance to do a secondment abroad. We liked it and stayed for longer than planned so my daughter was born there. Even though she was born abroad, she was born British and she is still only British (she has never had another passport).
We returned to the UK when she was 9, mainly so that she could go to school in the UK, but for various reasons we decided to go abroad again when she was 16. When I say we I mean me. My daughter didn’t make that decision. We didn’t sell our house in the UK and are now back home and I’m working here again.
My daughter got into a British university and managed to get home fees. We had to persuade the university that she is ordinarily resident in the UK. That should be obvious because she is a British citizen and (since Brexit) she has no right to live anywhere else in the world except in the UK.
Although her university has accepted she is ordinarily resident the Student Loan Company has not. She is stuck in a bureaucratic nightmare with them. She applied back in August of last year and it took them months for them to even respond and they keep asking for more documents to prove she is ordinarily resident. Mostly really stupid things like “proof from her employment contract that her position abroad was temporary”. There doesn’t seem any way of forcing them to make a decision and their foot dragging means that if I didn’t have enough money to pay for her education she would have been thrown off her course.
There is no way that she would be able to go to university without funding and I doubt any third party would lend her enough to get through university. She has a chronic illness so working enough to pay for her course and studying full time would also be difficult.
My understanding is that if you are not British but have a right to remain in the UK and have been resident in the UK the three years before the course starting then you are eligible for a loan. It seems fundamentally unfair for my daughter who is British and is being penalised just because I worked overseas.
Your thoughts?
Although the children of armed forces personnel may well be in the same situation, so I’m not sure what the process is. Of course so many solid UK residents leave with no degree or useless degrees into menial jobs so that they never pay it back anyway.
SLC are a bit of a law unto themselves.
Baroque attacks said:
Agree with what what’s been said, they’re wanting to know they’re not funding study for her to just leave.
I think forces kids are treated as home students by ticking the ‘forces’ box. They get special treatment, for obvious reasons.
Yeah, it's got to be a pretty unusual case so no wonder they're struggling.I think forces kids are treated as home students by ticking the ‘forces’ box. They get special treatment, for obvious reasons.
Baroque attacks said:
Agree with what what’s been said, they’re wanting to know they’re not funding study for her to just leave.
I think forces kids are treated as home students by ticking the ‘forces’ box. They get special treatment, for obvious reasons.
Leave to where is the question though? She doesn’t have a right to live anywhere else. Of course she could decide to go and live in another country but I don’t see how that risk is higher than for other British students.I think forces kids are treated as home students by ticking the ‘forces’ box. They get special treatment, for obvious reasons.
Skeptisk said:
Leave to where is the question though? She doesn’t have a right to live anywhere else. Of course she could decide to go and live in another country but I don’t see how that risk is higher than for other British students.
They'll see it as a higher risk due to her extended periods of living abroad. They can have no opinion, the rules are the rules.
If your daughter is British, has lived here for the last three years (before her course starts), then she is entitled to some sort of student loan. If of course you have been living abroad for some of those years, and she hasn't, then you may have to prove it of course.
If your daughter is British, has lived here for the last three years (before her course starts), then she is entitled to some sort of student loan. If of course you have been living abroad for some of those years, and she hasn't, then you may have to prove it of course.
Road2Ruin said:
They can have no opinion, the rules are the rules.
If your daughter is British, has lived here for the last three years (before her course starts), then she is entitled to some sort of student loan. If of course you have been living abroad for some of those years, and she hasn't, then you may have to prove it of course.
She wasn’t in the UK for the full three years. So it all hinges on whether she is “ordinarily resident” in the UK, which comes down to where her real home is. She doesn’t have another home. Pretty much all her family (and all the ones she knows) are British citizens living in the UK. She doesn’t have another passport/citizenship. How is she not ordinarily resident here? She clearly isn’t ordinarily resident anywhere else. If your daughter is British, has lived here for the last three years (before her course starts), then she is entitled to some sort of student loan. If of course you have been living abroad for some of those years, and she hasn't, then you may have to prove it of course.
I would guess her case is relatively unusual so doesn’t fit the computer matrix for acceptance.
Both you and her being out of the Country for in effect the last 11 years v the 7 here won’t help.
Ultimately with presumably fewer going to Uni’s I’m sure the SLC won’t want to see too much drop in revenue so I guess you have to just go through the hoops they say.
Maybe don’t try to interpret their questions too much and just answer what is asked.
Good luck but ultimately I think you will get there.
Both you and her being out of the Country for in effect the last 11 years v the 7 here won’t help.
Ultimately with presumably fewer going to Uni’s I’m sure the SLC won’t want to see too much drop in revenue so I guess you have to just go through the hoops they say.
Maybe don’t try to interpret their questions too much and just answer what is asked.
Good luck but ultimately I think you will get there.
alscar said:
I would guess her case is relatively unusual so doesn’t fit the computer matrix for acceptance.
Both you and her being out of the Country for in effect the last 11 years v the 7 here won’t help.
Ultimately with presumably fewer going to Uni’s I’m sure the SLC won’t want to see too much drop in revenue so I guess you have to just go through the hoops they say.
Maybe don’t try to interpret their questions too much and just answer what is asked.
Good luck but ultimately I think you will get there.
What is annoying is that the process has been so drawn out and opaque. It was clear from the original application in August that she could only qualify under the ordinarily resident definition so why didn’t they respond and ask for documents in September? Why wait until November (long after she needed to pay her fees)? Why ask for documents without confirming receipt and then ask for more similar documents? If we supply the new ones requested will that be the end? She has tried calling but they won’t don’t anything on the telephone (even if she can get through to someone). It just feels they are stringing us out until she gives up. Both you and her being out of the Country for in effect the last 11 years v the 7 here won’t help.
Ultimately with presumably fewer going to Uni’s I’m sure the SLC won’t want to see too much drop in revenue so I guess you have to just go through the hoops they say.
Maybe don’t try to interpret their questions too much and just answer what is asked.
Good luck but ultimately I think you will get there.
Skeptisk said:
alscar said:
I would guess her case is relatively unusual so doesn’t fit the computer matrix for acceptance.
Both you and her being out of the Country for in effect the last 11 years v the 7 here won’t help.
Ultimately with presumably fewer going to Uni’s I’m sure the SLC won’t want to see too much drop in revenue so I guess you have to just go through the hoops they say.
Maybe don’t try to interpret their questions too much and just answer what is asked.
Good luck but ultimately I think you will get there.
What is annoying is that the process has been so drawn out and opaque. It was clear from the original application in August that she could only qualify under the ordinarily resident definition so why didn’t they respond and ask for documents in September? Why wait until November (long after she needed to pay her fees)? Why ask for documents without confirming receipt and then ask for more similar documents? If we supply the new ones requested will that be the end? She has tried calling but they won’t don’t anything on the telephone (even if she can get through to someone). It just feels they are stringing us out until she gives up. Both you and her being out of the Country for in effect the last 11 years v the 7 here won’t help.
Ultimately with presumably fewer going to Uni’s I’m sure the SLC won’t want to see too much drop in revenue so I guess you have to just go through the hoops they say.
Maybe don’t try to interpret their questions too much and just answer what is asked.
Good luck but ultimately I think you will get there.
As she has a place secured perhaps ask the Uni for xtra pointers / advice ?
Citizenship and residency are two different things.
Unfortunately, she isn't 'ordinarily resident' in the UK - at least not until the three years can be shown.
She's stuck in a crack, because as a child she's come under your residency permissions for where you've been living the last several years. SLC will be a lot stricter than a uni, as they're lending her money.
Best option is that she starts next year, ideally through deferring her offer from the uni.
Unfortunately, she isn't 'ordinarily resident' in the UK - at least not until the three years can be shown.
She's stuck in a crack, because as a child she's come under your residency permissions for where you've been living the last several years. SLC will be a lot stricter than a uni, as they're lending her money.
Best option is that she starts next year, ideally through deferring her offer from the uni.
So left UK when she was 16? Honestly, without sounding like I am having a pop, I think you should have considered your steps back then because if you knew you were not going to / be able pay for uni and you knew she wanted to go then in reality you should have not gone right at that critical time when she was 16.
I speak from experience as someone who was moved from pillar to post from about the age of 13 to 18.
I speak from experience as someone who was moved from pillar to post from about the age of 13 to 18.
Sway said:
Citizenship and residency are two different things.
Unfortunately, she isn't 'ordinarily resident' in the UK - at least not until the three years can be shown.
She's stuck in a crack, because as a child she's come under your residency permissions for where you've been living the last several years. SLC will be a lot stricter than a uni, as they're lending her money.
Best option is that she starts next year, ideally through deferring her offer from the uni.
Being absent from the UK doesn’t necessarily mean you are not ordinarily resident in the UK. Which is the crux of the matter. Unfortunately, she isn't 'ordinarily resident' in the UK - at least not until the three years can be shown.
She's stuck in a crack, because as a child she's come under your residency permissions for where you've been living the last several years. SLC will be a lot stricter than a uni, as they're lending her money.
Best option is that she starts next year, ideally through deferring her offer from the uni.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
When we left the UK it was with the intention of returning (we kept our house) and indeed we have returned and live back in the same house. Therefore we all should have remained ordinarily resident in the UK during our time abroad.
I think it's harsh & sucks for your daughter but IMO it is what it is- this isn't a new situation, it's been like this for years (possibly since Student loans were introduced. I've never known it not to be so) and was like this when you decided to leave the UK so it sounds like poor planning when you last left. Likewise when I left Scotland I lost the right to state-funded Uni and when I wasn't earning stopped accruing NI contributions which I've had to back pay.
Regarding her situation, as a former skint student I sympathise, but the only route I can see is for her to live in the country you want to study, save as much as you can (perhaps shrewdly minimising your exposure to means testing) and then apply when you're able to receive student finance. It will mean going to uni later but the alternative must be ruinous.
Was she registered with a British GP/bank at your old house? Could she make the case that she never left although you did?
It sucks for her, but I view it the same as when people move houses to get their kids into a good school vs staying put because it's more affordable. People adjust to the systems they're presented with. This wasn't something you considered when you last left and now are facing the consequences.
Skeptisk said:
Sway said:
Citizenship and residency are two different things.
Unfortunately, she isn't 'ordinarily resident' in the UK - at least not until the three years can be shown.
She's stuck in a crack, because as a child she's come under your residency permissions for where you've been living the last several years. SLC will be a lot stricter than a uni, as they're lending her money.
Best option is that she starts next year, ideally through deferring her offer from the uni.
Being absent from the UK doesn’t necessarily mean you are not ordinarily resident in the UK. Which is the crux of the matter. Unfortunately, she isn't 'ordinarily resident' in the UK - at least not until the three years can be shown.
She's stuck in a crack, because as a child she's come under your residency permissions for where you've been living the last several years. SLC will be a lot stricter than a uni, as they're lending her money.
Best option is that she starts next year, ideally through deferring her offer from the uni.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
When we left the UK it was with the intention of returning (we kept our house) and indeed we have returned and live back in the same house. Therefore we all should have remained ordinarily resident in the UK during our time abroad.
For the SLC, they've determined one of the primary criteria to be three years of settlement - which they're not going to change and you're not going to be able to challenge.
So, she's going to have to wait until next year, when it'll all be very smooth. This year, it's not happening.
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