Parents-How long is your duty of care?
Discussion
My goal is to make them capable of being independent once they leave university. I’ve been “training” them since birth with every day being a new challenge. I’m almost certainly not going to be fully successful but I feel like I’m being a parent.
My 12 and 11 year olds have been raking yards this autumn. I originally told them I’d pay for the first yard so they could tell the home owner they were doing it for fun and avoid money talk until the next. I was also concerned they would do a crap job.
They exceeded my expectations and did an excellent job. They told the home owner they were doing it for fun but the owner insisted on giving $25.
They have gone on to rake a lot of yards. At one, my 11 year old daughter accidentally hit the 12 year old in the mouth. Lots of blood. Boy ran home, got cleaned up and went back to finish the job. He was previously the quitter.
They are not motivated by money because every house they go to they say they will do it for free. Each house has given them what they think the job was worth.
My son has invested money back into his business and bought a tarp to move leaves in bulk.
I’m not saying Im a genius. But, I think they have learnt more in this venture than mostkids people learn.
This is how I was brought up. My in-laws had the Peter Pan version of being brought up and literally had no concept of money even at University. Even today, they go to my mother in law for everything, one is 27, another 32 and one 40! It’s the way they want to be though. They want their mother to continue that role. That was clearly failure in my family.
I don’t think I was driven to hard and I don’t think I drive my kids to hard. If my in laws ask the time my mother in law will still get her phone out and say “1:45”. If my kids ask the time “there’s a clock on the wall. Don’t ask me a question you can answer yourself. That’s outsourcing your brain”.
In short, 22 but I may be a maniac. My kids enjoy it though. That may change and hopefully I will be aware enough to notice.
My 12 and 11 year olds have been raking yards this autumn. I originally told them I’d pay for the first yard so they could tell the home owner they were doing it for fun and avoid money talk until the next. I was also concerned they would do a crap job.
They exceeded my expectations and did an excellent job. They told the home owner they were doing it for fun but the owner insisted on giving $25.
They have gone on to rake a lot of yards. At one, my 11 year old daughter accidentally hit the 12 year old in the mouth. Lots of blood. Boy ran home, got cleaned up and went back to finish the job. He was previously the quitter.
They are not motivated by money because every house they go to they say they will do it for free. Each house has given them what they think the job was worth.
My son has invested money back into his business and bought a tarp to move leaves in bulk.
I’m not saying Im a genius. But, I think they have learnt more in this venture than most
This is how I was brought up. My in-laws had the Peter Pan version of being brought up and literally had no concept of money even at University. Even today, they go to my mother in law for everything, one is 27, another 32 and one 40! It’s the way they want to be though. They want their mother to continue that role. That was clearly failure in my family.
I don’t think I was driven to hard and I don’t think I drive my kids to hard. If my in laws ask the time my mother in law will still get her phone out and say “1:45”. If my kids ask the time “there’s a clock on the wall. Don’t ask me a question you can answer yourself. That’s outsourcing your brain”.
In short, 22 but I may be a maniac. My kids enjoy it though. That may change and hopefully I will be aware enough to notice.
Edited by h0b0 on Wednesday 13th November 03:36
You may think that once they get older, you cease to be responsible and to an extent that is true, but they never cease to be your kids. So unless they do something unspeakably awful, or you are an insensitive nob, I do not think it's possible to not care. Your duty of care lasts until you die, or they do (first).
Im 34 this coming weekend. My brother is 40 in another month.
We've been given exactly the same opportunities/things. My brother has found himself in some pretty challenging times recently (over the past 5/6 years). He doesn't always make the best decisions, but his luck does seem spectacularly bad.
I think it almost resets when there are children involved as then you feel partially responsible for grandchildren. My parents are finding it very hard to deal with.
We've been given exactly the same opportunities/things. My brother has found himself in some pretty challenging times recently (over the past 5/6 years). He doesn't always make the best decisions, but his luck does seem spectacularly bad.
I think it almost resets when there are children involved as then you feel partially responsible for grandchildren. My parents are finding it very hard to deal with.
Not a 'duty of care' perhaps, but certainly one of the first ports of call in a crisis.
Mine are mid 20's and fiercely independent, but I do help my son out from time to time. I helped him buy a car recently and also paid 12 months rent in advance on his flat (he's paying me back monthly) because he didn't have any previous rental references.
So it depends - it's hard to tell your children to fek off if they're in need of support. But if I had a son who was bone-idle and relying on me for everything, it might be different.
Mine are mid 20's and fiercely independent, but I do help my son out from time to time. I helped him buy a car recently and also paid 12 months rent in advance on his flat (he's paying me back monthly) because he didn't have any previous rental references.
So it depends - it's hard to tell your children to fek off if they're in need of support. But if I had a son who was bone-idle and relying on me for everything, it might be different.
Last week I finished work one lunchtime and did something very PH, so that I could give Vikingette1 a lesson in Car Maintenance 101. She's currently learning to drive (aged 22) and Car Maintenance 101 stemmed from calls over the years being in friends cars and me being called for car advice from flat tyres etc, culminating in a late night call about an oil pressure light last week on a friends Smart Car.
We went around each car on the drive and I got her to
(1) Find the different places where the bonnet releases are on each car and the different positions and actions of bonnet latches
(2) Identify the reservoirs for brake fluid, coolant, windscreen washer, dipstick/taking readings and got her to open/close all of them so she could feel the action. Then got her to top up the oil (minutely off max) and screenwash on one car just for practice
(3) Identify major components and what they would look like and things that can break - drivebelts etc
(4) Check battery voltage and whether the alternator was charging
(5) Check tyre pressures and look at the condition of the tyre. Taught her to plug a tyre (every car has a plug kit) on a unmounted tyre that I've been meaning to throw out and she was surprised at how much force was required
(6) Brake disc condition and how to peek through to the check how much meat was on the pads
(7) Finally I got her to jack up a car and change the wheel. Whilst the wheel was up I rotated it on the axle so she could tell if it moved smoothly or in a grinding rotation. I showed her how to use the extending wrench (again, one in every car) so that she would definitely be able to undo the bolts, and to only tighten with the standard wrench. Then taught her how to use a torque wrench.
More to come, but hopefully that will stand her in good stead.
We went around each car on the drive and I got her to
(1) Find the different places where the bonnet releases are on each car and the different positions and actions of bonnet latches
(2) Identify the reservoirs for brake fluid, coolant, windscreen washer, dipstick/taking readings and got her to open/close all of them so she could feel the action. Then got her to top up the oil (minutely off max) and screenwash on one car just for practice
(3) Identify major components and what they would look like and things that can break - drivebelts etc
(4) Check battery voltage and whether the alternator was charging
(5) Check tyre pressures and look at the condition of the tyre. Taught her to plug a tyre (every car has a plug kit) on a unmounted tyre that I've been meaning to throw out and she was surprised at how much force was required
(6) Brake disc condition and how to peek through to the check how much meat was on the pads
(7) Finally I got her to jack up a car and change the wheel. Whilst the wheel was up I rotated it on the axle so she could tell if it moved smoothly or in a grinding rotation. I showed her how to use the extending wrench (again, one in every car) so that she would definitely be able to undo the bolts, and to only tighten with the standard wrench. Then taught her how to use a torque wrench.
More to come, but hopefully that will stand her in good stead.
Jasey_ said:
ShortBeardy said:
You may think that once they get older, you cease to be responsible and to an extent that is true, but they never cease to be your kids. So unless they do something unspeakably awful, or you are an insensitive nob, I do not think it's possible to not care. Your duty of care lasts until you die, or they do (first).
This all day long.You'll always care but there's a time by which they ought to be independent.
My view of being a parent is that I'm doing my best to prepare them for that time. My wife's view is that she doesn't want to ever let them go.
I always say she wants to protect them from life and I want to prepare them for it. But regardless there's no way I'd consider my duty of care to reach an end date.
My father in law is like this. Helps out financially here and there. Comes round to help with school pickup. Even prepared to have them over to stay, albeit our youngest isn't ready for that yet. Reads with them, even wipes bottoms these days. He's an active engaged grandparent who still does his best for his daughter too.
Contrast my dad who is a misery and a miser. Considered his parental contribution to be over when I left university. Moved 2 hours drive away so he wouldn't have to babysit. Visits once a year at Christmas and expects to be waited on, has to be shamed into playing a game with the children then cheats to win, goads them to tears then disapproves of their childlike reaction to a grown adult being a prick. Expects several visits from us per year then does f
k all to engage with the kids.
You'll probably find a balance somewhere between those two bookends. Try to be more like the former than the latter.
My view of being a parent is that I'm doing my best to prepare them for that time. My wife's view is that she doesn't want to ever let them go.
I always say she wants to protect them from life and I want to prepare them for it. But regardless there's no way I'd consider my duty of care to reach an end date.
My father in law is like this. Helps out financially here and there. Comes round to help with school pickup. Even prepared to have them over to stay, albeit our youngest isn't ready for that yet. Reads with them, even wipes bottoms these days. He's an active engaged grandparent who still does his best for his daughter too.
Contrast my dad who is a misery and a miser. Considered his parental contribution to be over when I left university. Moved 2 hours drive away so he wouldn't have to babysit. Visits once a year at Christmas and expects to be waited on, has to be shamed into playing a game with the children then cheats to win, goads them to tears then disapproves of their childlike reaction to a grown adult being a prick. Expects several visits from us per year then does f
k all to engage with the kids.You'll probably find a balance somewhere between those two bookends. Try to be more like the former than the latter.
smifffymoto said:
Family is forever.
Agreed. Duty of care sounds pretty formal to me. I'll always care for them, but that care now takes different forms.
Some situations I know are tough, but I just empathise ie when monthly allowance at uni got spent in 10 days and he's now shopping for the cheapest noodles oop north in bulk to make it through to 1st of next month...
I could 'solve' the problem, he knows I could solve the problem. But we both know valuable lessons are being learnt right now.
(His mother and grandparents however don't seem to possess my levels of steely determination regarding financial discipline and openly express their views that I'm a mean tightwad now they're over 18... so whilst I'm hearing "yes dad, important lessons are absolutely being learned" I'm pretty sure banking apps are regularly pinging away outside of my field of vision
)ShortBeardy said:
You may think that once they get older, you cease to be responsible and to an extent that is true, but they never cease to be your kids. So unless they do something unspeakably awful, or you are an insensitive nob, I do not think it's possible to not care. Your duty of care lasts until you die, or they do (first).
What Beardy said ^^I don't think it ever stops, but it does become (hopefully) more of a partnership, 43 here and my mum and dad have both helped me with bits and bobs in the last few years, but I've also helped them, your parents are always your parents and past 18 I don't think you should be dependent on them, but having a partnership/friendship basis of helping each other is a healthy relationship. All too often though I see it all in one direction, usually the kids who can't stand on their own feet.
My lad is 19, sure he could survive on his own but he'd make a lot of mistakes on the way.
Would love to get him more financially aware but it's like banging my head against a wall
Think he'd stay with us 'til death do us part unless we kick him out.
In contrast, I moved out at the age of 26, constant rows with my seriously possessive mother who wanted me to stay. As a result I never went back for over 20 years. My sister never got out and still lives in the family home near 15 years after my mother and father died.
Would love to get him more financially aware but it's like banging my head against a wall
Think he'd stay with us 'til death do us part unless we kick him out.
In contrast, I moved out at the age of 26, constant rows with my seriously possessive mother who wanted me to stay. As a result I never went back for over 20 years. My sister never got out and still lives in the family home near 15 years after my mother and father died.
I was cut loose pretty much at 16. To get things right I had to make one hell of a lot of stupid mistakes. But through graft and a bit of luck along the way it's so far turned out OK.
If I can use that experience to guide my offspring through life then I will. I'm always going to be 30 years ahead of them after all.
They also know if the st hits the fan I'll be there both emotionally and financially even though they're grown up with families of their own.
Whether they feel they need it not my duty of care will remain for as long as I'm around and compos mentis.
If I can use that experience to guide my offspring through life then I will. I'm always going to be 30 years ahead of them after all.
They also know if the s
t hits the fan I'll be there both emotionally and financially even though they're grown up with families of their own. Whether they feel they need it not my duty of care will remain for as long as I'm around and compos mentis.
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